HGould Posted April 23, 2020 Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 11 hours ago, stevebrum said: IF Speedway came back I’m sure it would be top flight with an overwhelming majority. I’m sure fans attending regular would have been happy with a level above if still running. I can't see Cradley ever coming back. The fan base has dwindled due to age and apathy. If the outstanding Tony Mole could not find a track location for them between 2000 and 2010 and make it work, then I have to ask "who can"?? The Money raised to support the Cradley Planning and set up was then squandered and used by Patchett and Pearson who have piggy backed on to the Cradley name for a long time, creamed money off it and done very little to actually support it. Now they have "run for the hills" as the money pit has run dry. Its 25 years since Dudley Wood closed and I fear Cradley will never return. Birmingham and Wolverhampton are barely viable, so where is there room for another Club in the midst of that as I see very few Cradley fans (30-40 in 2019) at either track and Cradleys gates last year were probably below 500. The horse sadly has bolted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted April 23, 2020 Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 11 hours ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said: The 2007 version would thump the Swindon team of last year. Lots of fans say the league has been weakened every year so you’d imagine our 2019 team to be like an NL side compared to the 2007 one, but it isn’t anything like that weak. Ellis, Musielak and Jensen were better than Chrzanowski, Gjedde and Ulamek. The only “weakening” has been the loss of a handful of GP standard number 1s and some reserves promoted prematurely from the lower leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGould Posted April 23, 2020 Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 14 minutes ago, jchapman said: So according to yesterday's national newspapers, when Poland start their 2020 league campaign they will only use riders who are willing to committ solely to their league AND LIVE IN THEIR COUNTRY. The PNZ obviously see the problems ahead with air travel and want to protect their league, so don't be surprised to see this also be implemented in 2021 and beyond. Surely this news will make British speedway promoters realise that the current set up with three leagues will no longer be possible and they need to use the time they have now to start again with a clean sheet of paper? I believe valid fans ideas which should be considered by the promoters are: - £10 entry - Regular meetings over a shorter season - Semi pro riders - Better sound systems and interviews (score boards are a good idea but too expensive) I would add that to reduce costs for everyone involved a fixed appearance fee rather than points money in year 1 which should be deter riders from spending money on fancy carbs and engine rebuilds. Then in year 2 move to standard engines and introduce money per point. If rider supply is an issue then it would be a good idea to set up north and south league and allow riders to ride for a team in each division. I dont think the Poles will see living in Poland as a pre-requisite beyond 2020. What we may see is an insistence that they have to be there on a Friday and remain til a Monday. That helps Sweden more than UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted April 23, 2020 Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 10 minutes ago, jchapman said: So according to yesterday's national newspapers, when Poland start their 2020 league campaign they will only use riders who are willing to committ solely to their league AND LIVE IN THEIR COUNTRY. The PNZ obviously see the problems ahead with air travel and want to protect their league, so don't be surprised to see this also be implemented in 2021 and beyond. Surely this news will make British speedway promoters realise that the current set up with three leagues will no longer be possible and they need to use the time they have now to start again with a clean sheet of paper? I believe valid fans ideas which should be considered by the promoters are: - £10 entry - Regular meetings over a shorter season - Semi pro riders - Better sound systems and interviews (score boards are a good idea but too expensive) I would add that to reduce costs for everyone involved a fixed appearance fee rather than points money in year 1 which should be deter riders from spending money on fancy carbs and engine rebuilds. Then in year 2 move to standard engines and introduce money per point. If rider supply is an issue then it would be a good idea to set up north and south league and allow riders to ride for a team in each division. All good points, but with regards Semi Pro riders its they themseves that decide if they want to be semi pro, its the promoters/sponsors that pay professional rider rates of pay, which the sport itself cant afford. The promoters need to pay a realistic figure that the Sport as a whole can afford and as for Sponsorship the promoters should not be allowed to spend sponsorship money on individual riders but use any sponsorship monies to cover meeting costs, the riders themselves should be responsible for obtaining their own sponsorship, but semi pro has to be the way to go as the sport can no longer sustain full time riders in the UK, indeed why should supporters and promoters continue to have to subsidise these riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theboss Posted April 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, DC2 said: Spot on and perfect. Oh, apart from the last sentence! And you could have a large, old fashioned cricket style scoreboard to please Grachan (which is a fair point). I can understand why that may not be ideal but I am struggling with ideas on how to share around the limited number of riders that will be available? Edited April 23, 2020 by jchapman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted April 23, 2020 Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 1 minute ago, jchapman said: I can understand that may not be ideal but I am struggling with ideas on how to share around the limited number of riders that will be available? How many UK riders do we have in all leagues from last year? I’d be quite happy with a top league similar to the CL and a junior league like the NL, with under 23s doubling down into the junior league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theboss Posted April 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 1 minute ago, DC2 said: How many UK riders do we have in all leagues from last year? I’d be quite happy with a top league similar to the CL and a junior league like the NL, with under 23s doubling down into the junior league. I plan on working that number out later today 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted April 23, 2020 Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, jchapman said: I plan on working that number out later today If you take out the junior teams of Edinburgh and Belle Vue there are currently 24 clubs. Maybe 16 for the top league and 8 for the junior league? So we’d need 16 x 7 for the top league, 112. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted April 23, 2020 Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 The UK still has one advantage over other countries - that is the number of opportunities to race that it offers. Compile a list of 2019's busiest riders around the world and it is very stark. All of the top 19 raced in at least one British League. If we are to persuade any non-Brits to base themselves over here then that will be the pull. (There is a problem, in that some of these riders may need but not qualify for work permits in 2021's post Brexit world). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted April 23, 2020 Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 12 hours ago, DC2 said: Is it indisputable? Maybe in terms of half a dozen lost GP riders, but otherwise? Yes, it is indisputable. You can pick two teams and compare them, (I think the 2007 team would beat the 2019 team) however every time the points limit is below 42, which it has been numerous times in the last decade, the league gets watered down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted April 23, 2020 Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, jchapman said: I plan on working that number out later today I like your ideas but to implement them and be ahead of the game thing's need to start happening now.In speedway this has never happened a rushed conference every year with no real longterm vision and usually nothing really changes your ideas are refreshing though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted April 23, 2020 Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, HGould said: I can't see Cradley ever coming back. The fan base has dwindled due to age and apathy. If the outstanding Tony Mole could not find a track location for them between 2000 and 2010 and make it work, then I have to ask "who can"?? The Money raised to support the Cradley Planning and set up was then squandered and used by Patchett and Pearson who have piggy backed on to the Cradley name for a long time, creamed money off it and done very little to actually support it. Now they have "run for the hills" as the money pit has run dry. Its 25 years since Dudley Wood closed and I fear Cradley will never return. Birmingham and Wolverhampton are barely viable, so where is there room for another Club in the midst of that as I see very few Cradley fans (30-40 in 2019) at either track and Cradleys gates last year were probably below 500. The horse sadly has bolted. Point by point. 1. I can't see Cradley ever coming back. How long were Birmingham and Leicester away for ?. 2. The fan base has dwindled due to age and apathy. The age issue applies to every Team in this country, the apathy is because the dream we were sold by P & P never materialised. 3. If the outstanding Tony Mole could not find a track location for them between 2000 and 2010 and make it work, then I have to ask "who can"??. There are still a few people out there who believe something can be put in place, the other major stumbling block now is the Sport itself. 4. The Money raised to support the Cradley Planning and set up was then squandered and used by Patchett and Pearson who have piggy backed on to the Cradley name for a long time, creamed money off it and done very little to actually support it. Now they have "run for the hills" as the money pit has run dry. Cant really argue with that. 5. Its 25 years since Dudley Wood closed and I fear Cradley will never return. Never say never, though i cant see it ever being in Cradley heath as such. 6. Birmingham and Wolverhampton are barely viable, so where is there room for another Club in the midst of that as I see very few Cradley fans (30-40 in 2019) at either track and Cradleys gates last year were probably below 500. Cradley are not just another club, again how many (30-40) attend the sport in general, I would suggest that age bracket and younger are/were the first to get disilusioned with the lack of (finding a track) progress, their were/are many reasons why the gates fell to under 500 that would take to long to answer here, I myself am one of the stay aways. 7. The horse sadly has bolted. The horse hasnt bolted, but its certainly lame . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted April 23, 2020 Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, jchapman said: I plan on working that number out later today I’ve just counted 83 declared in this year’s teams so realistically we’d need 50 Australians and continentals to base themselves here to have a real difference in standards between the two leagues. Edit: or did I count 87? Edited April 23, 2020 by DC2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted April 23, 2020 Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 21 hours ago, Piotr Pyszny said: Nicely argued. But is doing nothing an option? No one is saying to do nothing. However, I don't think tinkering with the league structure, race format or eligibility of riders will make one iotas difference to the number of paying customers thorough the turnstiles. The answer in my mind is marketing. You can fluff up the product as much as you want, but if no one knows about it then you'll only ever be attracting a diminishing number of diehard fans. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted April 23, 2020 Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, MattK said: Yes, it is indisputable. You can pick two teams and compare them, (I think the 2007 team would beat the 2019 team) however every time the points limit is below 42, which it has been numerous times in the last decade, the league gets watered down. Not necessarily. Because a 6 point veteran on the way down can be replaced with a 4 point youngster on the way up, restoring parity midway through the following season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted April 23, 2020 Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, DC2 said: I’ve just counted 83 declared in this year’s teams so realistically we’d need 50 Australians and continentals to base themselves here to have a real difference in standards between the two leagues. That count is not far away, there was a count done a few weeks ago on another thread, in fact it may have been you that did the count.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksaw Jim Duggan Posted April 23, 2020 Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 29 minutes ago, DC2 said: Ellis, Musielak and Jensen were better than Chrzanowski, Gjedde and Ulamek. You can post things like this 100 times, it’s still just hilarious nonsense 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksaw Jim Duggan Posted April 23, 2020 Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Sidney the robin said: Really i think not. But things you say about the sport are as insightful as having a chat about speedway with a tin of sardines, don’t at me - you’re an idiot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted April 23, 2020 Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said: But things you say about the sport are as insightful as having a chat about speedway with a tin of sardines, don’t at me - you’re an idiot Sidney isn’t an idiot. But you are rude and unpleasant. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacksaw Jim Duggan Posted April 23, 2020 Report Share Posted April 23, 2020 1 minute ago, DC2 said: Sidney isn’t an idiot. But you are rude and unpleasant. True, that’s an insult to idiots. I apologies to all idiots, see, you’re wrong, I am pleasant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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