British Speedway to be reborn?

[PHILIPRISING]

57 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

Personally I've always thought the rule book needed looking into...was always open to interpretation and confusion and some promoters (Ian Thomas for one) was always looking for loop holes.

IAN offered to tear up the rulebook and rewrite it with far less pages ... pity the BSPA didn't accept it then and it is even worse now. 

[f-s-p]

18 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

IAN offered to tear up the rulebook and rewrite it with far less pages ... pity the BSPA didn't accept it then and it is even worse now. 

The rulebook wont become any more simple until you have enough domestic riders to fill the teams. With no riders you need all the d/u and guest and them rules to have a chance of full teams in meetings. The problem is not new at the top league, it goes back probably 30 years. 

[steve roberts]

7 minutes ago, f-s-p said:

The rulebook wont become any more simple until you have enough domestic riders to fill the teams. With no riders you need all the d/u and guest and them rules to have a chance of full teams in meetings. The problem is not new at the top league, it goes back probably 30 years. 

Unfortunately I think that you are right.

[greyhoundp]

57 minutes ago, f-s-p said:

The rulebook wont become any more simple until you have enough domestic riders to fill the teams. With no riders you need all the d/u and guest and them rules to have a chance of full teams in meetings. The problem is not new at the top league, it goes back probably 30 years. 

Then give the Domestic riders team places, Check out the riders that have disappeared totally from the sport these were half decent National League riders from 3/4 years ago; Lee Payne, Rob Shuttleworth, Matt Williamson, Jake Knight, Mark Baseby, Ben Hopwood, Dan Greenwood, George Hunter, Danny Halsey, Jon Armstrong, Lee Dicken, Mitchell Davey, Tony Aitkin, Luke Priest, Jack P Blackburn, Liam Carr, Taylor Hampshire, Darryl Ritchings, Richard Hall, Ben Wilson, James Cockle, Zak Wajnecht, Alfie Bowtell, Adam Roynon, Steve Boxhall, Benji Compton, Olly Greenwood, Joe Jacobs, Rob Branford, Kyle Hughes.

Im not disputing the fact that some have retired after long careers, but most have given up because they got peed off trying to obtain a place in a higher League, granted none of them were ever going to be World Champions, but most of them were capable of winning races in a higher League, but promoters often decide to overlook them and go for a foreign rider that may prove to be the rider that is an 8 pointer on a 5 point average, whereas these mostly young British riders were only going to progress steadily.. Its down to the Promoters to give domestic riders Team places rather than filling the sport with often mediocre foreign riders..

[waytogo28]

13 hours ago, Mr Ore said:

Didn't I read somewhere that a group of serial BSF doom and gloom merchants went for a drink together and spotted a sign saying "Happy Hour" so they  all left ?. 

This is what lies at the heart of the problem. The BSPA's increasing reluctance to see feedback as anything other than "doom and gloom" criticism. Of a group of five of us who got together six years ago to put forward a long list of constuctive ideas ( which were published in the Spedway Star at the time ) received not even an acknowledgement of our positive contribution  - never mind a Thank You. All five are no longer regualr attenders to matches. That is perhaps the not so funny part of it. They walked away like many others.

[f-s-p]

29 minutes ago, greyhoundp said:

Then give the Domestic riders team places, Check out the riders that have disappeared totally from the sport these were half decent National League riders from 3/4 years ago; Lee Payne, Rob Shuttleworth, Matt Williamson, Jake Knight, Mark Baseby, Ben Hopwood, Dan Greenwood, George Hunter, Danny Halsey, Jon Armstrong, Lee Dicken, Mitchell Davey, Tony Aitkin, Luke Priest, Jack P Blackburn, Liam Carr, Taylor Hampshire, Darryl Ritchings, Richard Hall, Ben Wilson, James Cockle, Zak Wajnecht, Alfie Bowtell, Adam Roynon, Steve Boxhall, Benji Compton, Olly Greenwood, Joe Jacobs, Rob Branford, Kyle Hughes.

Im not disputing the fact that some have retired after long careers, but most have given up because they got peed off trying to obtain a place in a higher League, granted none of them were ever going to be World Champions, but most of them were capable of winning races in a higher League, but promoters often decide to overlook them and go for a foreign rider that may prove to be the rider that is an 8 pointer on a 5 point average, whereas these mostly young British riders were only going to progress steadily.. Its down to the Promoters to give domestic riders Team places rather than filling the sport with often mediocre foreign riders..

Nothing wrong with what you say. It's up to the promoters. Maybe they thought nobody would come and see the riders you mentioned because they are not good enough?

I know I would not fly over to see a weeks worth of meetings with that lot riding...

It's not simple to fix the rulebook.

[Guest]

On 4/20/2020 at 9:41 AM, lynnboy said:

But the promoters only want to look after themselves and not the sport can’t see them wanting to give up assets. I think it sounds a good idea though but a lot of the old promoters are old school as you well know and don’t and won’t do change even if it’s for the better

...and why not? It's their financial resources that establish a track/club in the first case.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Guest
spelling error

[Speedtiger]

38 minutes ago, gustix said:

...and why not? It's there financial resources the establish a track/club in the first case.

Fair point but it’s the fans (customers) who pay to keep things going and it’s a very poor business that ignores the customer. The proof is there for all to see...Speedway is bust and that was the case before the virus crisis!

[Fromafar]

4 hours ago, greyhoundp said:

Then give the Domestic riders team places, Check out the riders that have disappeared totally from the sport these were half decent National League riders from 3/4 years ago; Lee Payne, Rob Shuttleworth, Matt Williamson, Jake Knight, Mark Baseby, Ben Hopwood, Dan Greenwood, George Hunter, Danny Halsey, Jon Armstrong, Lee Dicken, Mitchell Davey, Tony Aitkin, Luke Priest, Jack P Blackburn, Liam Carr, Taylor Hampshire, Darryl Ritchings, Richard Hall, Ben Wilson, James Cockle, Zak Wajnecht, Alfie Bowtell, Adam Roynon, Steve Boxhall, Benji Compton, Olly Greenwood, Joe Jacobs, Rob Branford, Kyle Hughes.

Im not disputing the fact that some have retired after long careers, but most have given up because they got peed off trying to obtain a place in a higher League, granted none of them were ever going to be World Champions, but most of them were capable of winning races in a higher League, but promoters often decide to overlook them and go for a foreign rider that may prove to be the rider that is an 8 pointer on a 5 point average, whereas these mostly young British riders were only going to progress steadily.. Its down to the Promoters to give domestic riders Team places rather than filling the sport with often mediocre foreign riders..

Think some of the wage demands from very average riders didn’t help their cause.

[greyhoundp]

Which brings us back to the fact the Sport as it is now can only support Semi professional riders, maybe the Premier should be for full time riders, with the Championship being for semi professional riders, with riders salaries to reflect that they are NOT professional, however its always difficult to police what promoters actually pay riders, even if books were verified by accountants, promoters can always pay cash or in kind..

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by greyhoundp

[FAST GATER]

36 minutes ago, greyhoundp said:

Which brings us back to the fact the Sport as it is now can only support Semi professional riders, maybe the Premier should be for full time riders, with the Championship being for semi professional riders, with riders salaries to reflect that they are NOT professional, however its always difficult to police what promoters actually pay riders, even if books were verified by accountants, promoters can always pay cash or in kind..

 

Funnily enough that was the rule of thumb in the past in fact there were only a hand full of full time riders in the top league Mauger ,Briggs and co , second strings and reserves were semi pro in that league as well.Saving  holidays and  riding for team that  best fit their  day jobs  which I am sure could be done today plus if we had more wkend teams that would assist with this issue and maybe more fans .

[steve roberts]

27 minutes ago, FAST GATER said:

Funnily enough that was the rule of thumb in the past in fact there were only a hand full of full time riders in the top league Mauger ,Briggs and co , second strings and reserves were semi pro in that league as well.Saving  holidays and  riding for team that  best fit their  day jobs  which I am sure could be done today plus if we had more wkend teams that would assist with this issue and maybe more fans .

I recall that many riders had other jobs as well as speedway. As I mentioned on another thread George Hunter was an HGV driver whilst riding speedway.

[GWC]

Even Briggo sold bikes as well.

A lot of riders were in the motor trade or construction.

The problem for riders is what sort of job will be around once we come out of the lockdown as businesses will be smaller and unemployment huge.

[steve roberts]

31 minutes ago, GWC said:

Even Briggo sold bikes as well.

A lot of riders were in the motor trade or construction.

The problem for riders is what sort of job will be around once we come out of the lockdown as businesses will be smaller and unemployment huge.

Garry Middleton sold Mercedes cars as a sideline.

[FAST GATER]

2 hours ago, steve roberts said:

I recall that many riders had other jobs as well as speedway. As I mentioned on another thread George Hunter was an HGV driver whilst riding speedway.

I remember talking to him a Wolves in 76  and he said I drive the trucks because this could all be over tomorrow for me and you need food on the table

[Falcon1983]

I don't see much change going into 2021 when/if things settle down again even with the aviation industry currently in a mess someone will come along and go for the budget approach as it worked for Ryanair for years and someone with the financial capability to offer cheap air travel will enter the market if those currently in the market increase prices or go bankrupt.

However all this mess is a great opportunity for British speedway to remodel itself rather than constantly just rebranding the same turd calling in elite league, premier league etc.  

Promoters aren't going to voluntarily give up the sport so the maximum number of tracks will still want to operate and if we stick purely to british riders we will go further backwards as there are just not enough riders coming into the sport in this country 

The guys involved in youth speedway are doing a great job but still the numbers coming into the sport are not of the past.

To progress to any sort of professional level we need the foreign riders

I'd like to see two leagues, in the second tier the only requirement being all reserves are British  

[DC2]

On 4/20/2020 at 9:35 AM, jchapman said:

The top two leagues of British speedway has for many years relied on cheap airlines to enable riders to race in multiple leagues around Europe, however with the aviation industry collapsing the knock on effect for British Speedway is simple….. it will not have access to riders who wish to race in more than just the British league as the logistics will just not allow it.

No star riders will mean a significant drop in crowds (I am guessing levels of 50% pre CV19) which will lead to lower revenues from ticket sales along with a significant drop in sponsorship/advertising revenue as well. If clubs have less money to spend then riders will also be paid less and some will probably turn their back on the sport as they cannot afford to ride, thus reducing the pool of available riders down even further.

In my opinion British Speedway needs to give up on the idea of their rider assets holding any financial value and press the reset button to create a new blueprint to survive post CV19 ready to be launched in March 2021 (subject to government restrictions).

I believe now is a great opportunity for supporters to share their thoughts and ideas on what British Speedway ‘reborn’ should look like and which clubs should be part of it so I can send them on to the current guardians of each club.

I look forward to reading the thoughts you may share on this.

If travel, quarantine and foreign league restrictions aren’t lifted before a re-start is allowed we’ll be left only with a finite number of British riders to make anything of the season.

Some clubs might be willing to run and others not.

We might be left with a completely unique, one season league of just 10 clubs and a team building average of CL 32!

We’d need 70 riders and we have about 85 British riders, including NL ones.

Three of Swindon’s top five might be Ellis, Perks and Rowe, and if we could get Jordan Stewart over and have say Kinsley, Luke Harris and Stoneman, I’d be happy to watch that type of team.

We might increase the standard or the number of teams if foreigners (including Aussies) base themselves here.

Each team could have a home and away meeting each week and conclude the league meetings after week nine, leaving one spare week for rain offs and two weeks for the play offs and final. 

Without being dependent on foreign riders, clubs could generally run on their preferred race nights and there would be no double uppers! Your rider would be solely your rider.

This season could be used as a worthwhile trial for a future blueprint for British speedway, especially one that includes living within its means.

[Sidney the robin]

10 hours ago, DC2 said:

If travel, quarantine and foreign league restrictions aren’t lifted before a re-start is allowed we’ll be left only with a finite number of British riders to make anything of the season.

Some clubs might be willing to run and others not.

We might be left with a completely unique, one season league of just 10 clubs and a team building average of CL 32!

We’d need 70 riders and we have about 85 British riders, including NL ones.

Three of Swindon’s top five might be Ellis, Perks and Rowe, and if we could get Jordan Stewart over and have say Kinsley, Luke Harris and Stoneman, I’d be happy to watch that type of team.

We might increase the standard or the number of teams if foreigners (including Aussies) base themselves here.

Each team could have a home and away meeting each week and conclude the league meetings after week nine, leaving one spare week for rain offs and two weeks for the play offs and final. 

Without being dependent on foreign riders, clubs could generally run on their preferred race nights and there would be no double uppers! Your rider would be solely your rider.

This season could be used as a worthwhile trial for a future blueprint for British speedway, especially one that includes living within its means.

If this did happen it could be the final nail in the coffin surely to run at this level it would have to be a 10/12 pound sport.Would some clubs not run ? for me  personally i could except the level but i would  imagine plenty of others could not ( even some diehard fans).I can't see Speedway happening in the UK until 2021 at the earliest and with this stubborn Government stance on not being flexible and admitting SOME of there mistakes speedway has a long wait.The biggest problem could be getting all the medical cover for meeting's even  by April / May  2021.

[Vince]

On ‎4‎/‎28‎/‎2020 at 5:27 PM, FAST GATER said:

Funnily enough that was the rule of thumb in the past in fact there were only a hand full of full time riders in the top league Mauger ,Briggs and co , second strings and reserves were semi pro in that league as well.Saving  holidays and  riding for team that  best fit their  day jobs  which I am sure could be done today plus if we had more wkend teams that would assist with this issue and maybe more fans .

I think the job market has changed so much since those days that working and racing is a lot more difficult. In the past the vast majority of jobs finished at 5pm which would allow riders to make home meetings after work or with a couple of hours off. Now with more and more jobs being run over a 24 hour rota hours are all over the place and it's very much more difficult to find a job that fits in. Also in the past Speedway was a much bigger sport and many employers were happy to help riders in their career allowing for time off and injuries, that just wouldn't happen now. Weekend racing would help a lot but is not possible for a lot of tracks and even that is becoming difficult with ever more 7 day working.

Plenty of riders do work running their own business or part time during the season and there aren't so many that could really say they are making a good living out of Speedway, most will have to work at least the off season. At the end of the day it has to be remembered that the likes of Briggo had businesses to run because they used their Speedway income to set them up not the other way around. Certainly in comparison the money paid to riders in the past was a whole lot more than it is now.

[DC2]

1 hour ago, Sidney the robin said:

If this did happen it could be the final nail in the coffin surely to run at this level it would have to be a 10/12 pound sport.

 

Actually it would be speedway’s chance to start taking the nails out of the coffin and lifting the lid on the realisation that it needs to live within its means.

As for the admission fee, yes, you would imagine that no flights and fewer big names would result in a lower one, just the same as the different price levels between the PL, the CL and the NL now.