British Speedway to be reborn?

[poole keith]

2 hours ago, MattK said:

I agree that airlines will be disrupted for the rest of this year and maybe early next year. However,  I cannot see any scenario where the market for budget airlines doesn't get back to its original position in the medium term.

one scenario matt could be there wont be enough planes,many have been seriously mothballed and parts removed,will there be enough pilots?airlines might decide "if you want to fly thats the price" 

[Theboss]

1 hour ago, poole keith said:

one scenario matt could be there wont be enough planes,many have been seriously mothballed and parts removed,will there be enough pilots?airlines might decide "if you want to fly thats the price" 

Also the demand will be lower because a big recession is on the cards and people will choose paying for food and accomodation over taking holidays on credit. Also businesses will want to cut costs and use online meetings to save on the cost of face to face ones.

Edited April 23, 2020 by jchapman
Bad spelling

[HGould]

3 hours ago, Vince said:

I would get Barry Bishop and Martin Widman in on the ground floor planning of any rethink of Speedway as the only promoters I have ever known get universal praise from the fans. The BSPA should be talking to them about how to deal with and attract new fans. In fact they should be listening and stop talking

Tell people how dangerous the sport is, unlike most 'extreme' sports you don't even need to exaggerate.

Take the opportunity to let young British MX and Trials riders of which there are thousands know that there could be a place for them in Speedway in the future. No asset system to work against them would be good. For a start I'd give any under 18 holding a motorcycle competition licence free admission and also give them pit tours, maybe have a different half a dozen of the over 16 each week working alongside the regular mechanics. You might pick up some apprentice rider/ mechanics that way.

It seems inevitable that the standard of rider will be a bit lower so have a few laps practice before a meeting so they start the races with a good setup. Also put on some junior riders before the meeting as well. This should get rid of those first few heats when the track is difficult to race hard on. Bring in vulture races for the reserve home berth as well.

Introduce rev limiters with a relatively low ceiling that would make expensive tuning an unnecessary waste of money, service intervals would be longer and parts life longer. I would like to see a minimum stroke introduced alongside that which would make engines more manageable for less skilled riders in difficult conditions. It should also make setting the bike up a little easier. It is really easy to police as well. A standard carb and clutch would also be easy to police and could save a good chunk of money.

While control engines might be a good idea in theory I doubt that promotions would be keen on the initial outlay and undoubtedly some would skimp on the upkeep as well.

Facilities don't need to be fancy but the food areas, bar and toilets need to be immaculately clean and kept that way, the new fans the sport needs won't put up with what the old timers do. If the facilities allow it have a noisy area for the younger adults where they can have loud music and a bit of a party.

 

Be interesting to know average crowd figures at IOW 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019 - is the hard work paying off in tangible numbers

Also be good to know if any supporter of any other Club has actual evidence of crowds increasing / decreasing / static; not bravo my Clubs better than yours etc but an honest assessment.

To loosely quote a Covid 19 theme, are we still approaching going down to peak lethargy or we on a plateau and going nowhere or are we seeing increasing numbers in places and if any of those apply are they regionalised / specific to Clubs or Areas? (unlike Covid going up is Good, going down is bad and plateau is probably betetr than many think)

Is Scotland thriving, how about the North East, are East Anglia / Midlands overloaded; how is the South doing, is suggested progress of BV purely down to their isolation geographically etc

My perception with the Midlands is that Wolves are stagnating feeling and looking old and tired, no disrespect to CVS/Peter legends in their day but has that day passed? , Brummies are holding their own thanks to some good work from David and Peter, and Leicester are progressing but having found a race-day and level that suits and mostly down to recruiting Stuart Dickson.

 

[DC2]

47 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Also the demand will be lower becuase a big recession is on the cards and people will choose paying for food and accomodation over taking holidays on credit. Also businesses will want to cut costs and use online meetings to save on teh ciost of face to face ones.

Actually there’s 23 clubs. I overlooked Leicester having two.

[Crabba59]

13 minutes ago, HGould said:

Be interesting to know average crowd figures at IOW 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019 - is the hard work paying off in tangible numbers

Also be good to know if any supporter of any other Club has actual evidence of crowds increasing / decreasing / static; not bravo my Clubs better than yours etc but an honest assessment.

To loosely quote a Covid 19 theme, are we still approaching going down to peak lethargy or we on a plateau and going nowhere or are we seeing increasing numbers in places and if any of those apply are they regionalised / specific to Clubs or Areas? (unlike Covid going up is Good, going down is bad and plateau is probably betetr than many think)

Is Scotland thriving, how about the North East, are East Anglia / Midlands overloaded; how is the South doing, is suggested progress of BV purely down to their isolation geographically etc

My perception with the Midlands is that Wolves are stagnating feeling and looking old and tired, no disrespect to CVS/Peter legends in their day but has that day passed? , Brummies are holding their own thanks to some good work from David and Peter, and Leicester are progressing but having found a race-day and level that suits and mostly down to recruiting Stuart Dickson.

 

To be honest Hgould Birmingham since moving back to Perry Bar the crowds have never been great,  even the opening night yes a big crowd but not as big as what Tony mole was expecting and the club on a whole as never made money 

 

[Vince]

22 minutes ago, HGould said:

Be interesting to know average crowd figures at IOW 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019 - is the hard work paying off in tangible numbers

I think the Isle of Wight is a unique case when it comes to crowd figures relying on holidaymakers for much of their crowd rather than 'home fans'. You really couldn't use their crowd numbers in comparison to others to judge popularity. However they are very clearly doing something right as far as the paying public on here are concerned and at the end of the day that is more than the vast majority of promoters seem to be doing. The 'old guard' need something to jolt them out of their 'stick with what hasn't sent us bankrupt' mindset, understandably in many ways but Barry and Martin have created a feel good factor on the Island without reinventing the wheel.

[greyhoundp]

If Barry & Martin have done nothing else, they have made supporters feel valued, whereas many of the old guard seem to have supporters their on sufference, and have to be put up with rather than valued, this also comes across from the BSPA, and the Sport as a whole..

[Sidney the robin]

4 hours ago, ch958 said:

I really don't get you - you make some good points, clearly you know and love the game, you have your own ideas which is fine, and then this. I literally don't get what happens to you to make you react like you do. 

He is not the full ticket poor old sod.

[iwright71]

On 4/21/2020 at 5:46 PM, Stoke Potter said:

I don't dismiss at all that something needs to be done with the engines and I'm sure people who have been involved in the past such as yourself could (and should) advise in that regard.  From what I gather, one of the features of the modern engines is that they are difficult to optimally setup with little margin of error.  What could be done with the current engines to improve that?

I don't really see how the UK could go it alone with a particular engine type/config, to me it would marginalise the sport further, i.e. it would be different from European, Australian, etc. Speedway.

British Speedway could fix it's tracks and that would actually bring it more in line with Poland for example.  I don't see how changing the rules on new tracks has any negative effect on anyone currently in the sport, why wouldn't it be done?

To completely "fix" the sport you have to:

Sort the tracks,

Sort the engines,

Have totally evenly matched teams,

Have a proper/better incentive/payment scheme for the riders,

and bring back weekend racing.

None of that is easy and fixing the tracks is actually one of the easier things on the list...

I know you are ploughing a lone furrow here Stoke Potter but I am inclined to agree with you on most fronts. Unfortunately for the sport the silencer regulation changes imposed on the sport by the F.I.M  (2011 season) have rendered many speedway tracks in this country vastly inferior in terms of racing and entertainment to what they served up previously.   Small tracks, narrow tracks and tracks with particularly long straights have suffered most. Tracks have remained the same while the machines have altered considerably . Laying off the throttle, riders seem to go backwards, giving it a handful the bike seems to rear up. Forget having plenty of dirt down, bikes can't handle it and forget any inclement weather, meeting off , it also doesn't help the bikes sound like a swarm of bees and don't smell of Castrol R any more, the sport lost  some of its soul and most, sorry all of its atmosphere on the terraces. Unfortunately modern speedway is most suited to flat out full throttle speedway on big , banked , slick tracks, a great example being Manchester. Unfortunately the tough bit is it is virtually impossible, practically or financially to adjust or alter  many of the tracks left in the league, we are pretty much stuck with what we have. In short the current product is not good enough, often enough. You may get away with it to a degree if you have the Worlds best riders but as we know that's not going to happen. You can forget expensive marketing, plenty of people know about speedway, watch it on TV , but choose not to go. Admittedly unless the TV match is from Manchester or Swindon its hardly exiting, mostly boring. I know nobody wants a bad news story but the sports been on a swift decline for the last 10 years and I cant see that decline being arrested even with all the goodwill in the world. Britain will not go on its own to change machinery and tracks wont change so you have what you have, with a weakening   rider standard  year on year.

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by iwright71

[FAST GATER]

10 hours ago, iwright71 said:

I know you are ploughing a lone furrow here Stoke Potter but I am inclined to agree with you on most fronts. Unfortunately for the sport the silencer regulation changes imposed on the sport by the F.I.M  (2011 season) have rendered many speedway tracks in this country vastly inferior in terms of racing and entertainment to what they served up previously.   Small tracks, narrow tracks and tracks with particularly long straights have suffered most. Tracks have remained the same while the machines have altered considerably . Laying off the throttle, riders seem to go backwards, giving it a handful the bike seems to rear up. Forget having plenty of dirt down, bikes can't handle it and forget any inclement weather, meeting off , it also doesn't help the bikes sound like a swarm of bees and don't smell of Castrol R any more, the sport lost  some of its soul and most, sorry all of its atmosphere on the terraces. Unfortunately modern speedway is most suited to flat out full throttle speedway on big , banked , slick tracks, a great example being Manchester. Unfortunately the tough bit is it is virtually impossible, practically or financially to adjust or alter  many of the tracks left in the league, we are pretty much stuck with what we have. In short the current product is not good enough, often enough. You may get away with it to a degree if you have the Worlds best riders but as we know that's not going to happen. You can forget expensive marketing, plenty of people know about speedway, watch it on TV , but choose not to go. Admittedly unless the TV match is from Manchester or Swindon its hardly exiting, mostly boring. I know nobody wants a bad news story but the sports been on a swift decline for the last 10 years and I cant see that decline being arrested even with all the goodwill in the world. Britain will not go on its own to change machinery and tracks wont change so you have what you have, with a weakening   rider standard  year on year.

 

IMO  Britian could  go on it's own with regard to machinery ,it is one of the main elements that could be changed and would have a great  effect on costs within the sport.We have to accept that for the short term the sport will to all intents and purpose be semi pro  to survive ,a half decent rider should be able to adapt to riding diffent engines( at grasstracks rider have 250/350/and 500 cc bikes) in the case of say Polish riders wishing to race in this country .Just like the smaller tracks we have here  they may just see it as expanding they experience and ability to make them better riders . 

Edited April 24, 2020 by FAST GATER

[waytogo28]

11 hours ago, iwright71 said:

You can forget expensive marketing, plenty of people know about speedway, watch it on TV , but choose not to go. Admittedly unless the TV match is from Manchester or Swindon its hardly exiting, mostly boring. I know nobody wants a bad news story but the sports been on a swift decline for the last 10 years and I cant see that decline being arrested even with all the goodwill in the world. Britain will not go on its own to change machinery and tracks wont change so you have what you have, with a weakening   rider standard  year on year.

It is that on track excitement that has strongly dimmed my love affair with speedway racing, which began in the early 50s ( when I had no choice but to go as both of my parents went and took me with them to The Firs in Norwich ), For at least the last 10 -15 years the draw of close racing and the possibility of passing ( or indeed the willngness od riders to attempt it - was it all pointless effort? ). Until those that put on speedway,  address this aspect of what first pulled thousands of fans in. Less powerful bikes, tracks relaid to suit the current machinery or whatever. But  it is an uphill rask of epic proportions and there is apparanelty still a feeling that "it's all alright as it is" among those putting their time and money into running speedway to a diminshing audience.

[Spl77]

The bikes need slowing and to be honest uprights are probably safer and easier to ride compared to laydowns. 

The way I see it is British speedway has to go semi pro and revert to standard upright machines these clearly suit the majority of British tracks far better than today's laydowns. 

I know that would mean some riders deciding not to ride here because they wouldn't want to maintain 2 different sets of equipment. However to keep the sport going in the UK its clear machinery costs have to be reduced and the entertainment level of the racing improved across the board. 

The only other solution would be for the FIM to oulaw anything other than standard equipment. To do that they would have to grow a pair. 

[ch958]

31 minutes ago, Spl77 said:

The bikes need slowing and to be honest uprights are probably safer and easier to ride compared to laydowns. 

The way I see it is British speedway has to go semi pro and revert to standard upright machines these clearly suit the majority of British tracks far better than today's laydowns. 

I know that would mean some riders deciding not to ride here because they wouldn't want to maintain 2 different sets of equipment. However to keep the sport going in the UK its clear machinery costs have to be reduced and the entertainment level of the racing improved across the board. 

The only other solution would be for the FIM to oulaw anything other than standard equipment. To do that they would have to grow a pair. 

agree, slower and cheaper bikes, more dirt. I wd suggest that people riding abroad maintain several machines so having a brit standard bike shouldn't be a problem.

[greyhoundp]

What does the FIM bring to British Speedway other than International events, and would it be possible to remain members of the ACU whilst not being FIM members ?. Would the FIM even allow its riders to participate in none FIM events ?, I agree going it alone would be an interesting choice because it would help us to bring equipment costs down, upright 2/4 valves would i suspect give the rider more control over the Bike, suit more of our Tracks, and maybe give more overtaking though this is debatable. We would lose the staging of International events, and probably most of the International riders though this would be through their choice, but they would be most of the higher standard of riders who have GP aspirations, or riders that can earn more money in europe than in the UK.

 Personally i think it would be worthwhile the BSPA considering it if its possible, however in my opinion they wont even think about it, but is a good debating point whilst their is no speedway..

[FAST GATER]

40 minutes ago, Spl77 said:

The bikes need slowing and to be honest uprights are probably safer and easier to ride compared to laydowns. 

The way I see it is British speedway has to go semi pro and revert to standard upright machines these clearly suit the majority of British tracks far better than today's laydowns. 

I know that would mean some riders deciding not to ride here because they wouldn't want to maintain 2 different sets of equipment. However to keep the sport going in the UK its clear machinery costs have to be reduced and the entertainment level of the racing improved across the board. 

The only other solution would be for the FIM to oulaw anything other than standard equipment. To do that they would have to grow a pair. 

In a lot of cases riders have kit in several countries already and have the engines built/ tuned accordingly ,many will say this is a step back( having simple easy to maintain engines) but that's not to say it is wrong .

 

[FAST GATER]

8 minutes ago, greyhoundp said:

What does the FIM bring to British Speedway other than International events, and would it be possible to remain members of the ACU whilst not being FIM members ?. Would the FIM even allow its riders to participate in none FIM events ?, I agree going it alone would be an interesting choice because it would help us to bring equipment costs down, upright 2/4 valves would i suspect give the rider more control over the Bike, suit more of our Tracks, and maybe give more overtaking though this is debatable. We would lose the staging of International events, and probably most of the International riders though this would be through their choice, but they would be most of the higher standard of riders who have GP aspirations, or riders that can earn more money in europe than in the UK.

 Personally i think it would be worthwhile the BSPA considering it if its possible, however in my opinion they wont even think about it, but is a good debating point whilst their is no speedway..

I think this is pobably the best and only time it will be considered by those who should be looking after the future of the sport ,not just s/way but IMO in everyday life things will never be quite the same again

[mikebv]

10 hours ago, FAST GATER said:

IMO  Britian could  go on it's own with regard to machinery ,it is one of the main elements that could be changed and would have a great  effect on costs within the sport.We have to accept that for the short term the sport will to all intents and purpose be semi pro  to survive ,a half decent rider should be able to adapt to riding diffent engines( at grasstracks rider have 250/350/and 500 cc bikes) in the case of say Polish riders wishing to race in this country .Just like the smaller tracks we have here  they may just see it as expanding they experience and ability to make them better riders . 

I've said before on here..

British Superbikes dont try and compete with their larger 'cousin' World Superbikes..

They do share many technical characteristics and sometimes share competitors, (but ensure they dont fixture clash!), but it's a completely separate Competition..

They seem to do 'ok' with a mainly domestic and antipodean rider base, with the odd European or Asian rider who usually will be domiciled in the UK..

Some riders will be returning from bigger Championships at the latter end of the careers, (which can boost fan numbers when a 'legend' returns), some will stay at that level, and some will aspire to move on and use the BSB as a 'stepping stone' to improve themselves to move on to bigger things..

A situation they accept and plan for by running several support classes to ensure talent comes through to replace those who move on.

A clear joined up strategy from novice to top level rider, with clear demarcation of what level each rider is at so the racing will reflect the closeness of rider capability.. 

No reason, for me, why British Speedway couldn't use this as a blueprint to devise their own strategy.. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by mikebv

[FAST GATER]

1 hour ago, mikebv said:

I've said before on here..

British Superbikes dont try and compete with their larger 'cousin' World Superbikes..

They do share many technical characteristics and sometimes share competitors, (but ensure they dont fixture clash!), but it's a completely separate Competition..

They seem to do 'ok' with a mainly domestic and antipodean rider base, with the odd European or Asian rider who usually will be domiciled in the UK..

Some riders will be returning from bigger Championships at the latter end of the careers, (which can boost fan numbers when a 'legend' returns), some will stay at that level, and some will aspire to move on and use the BSB as a 'stepping stone' to improve themselves to move on to bigger things..

A situation they accept and plan for by running several support classes to ensure talent comes through to replace those who move on.

A clear joined up strategy from novice to top level rider, with clear demarcation of what level each rider is at so the racing will reflect the closeness of rider capability.. 

No reason British Speedway couldn't use this blueprint for me to devise their own strategy.. 

I have never  been able to get my head round the fact that a complete novice at s/way can have exactly the same machinery as the world champ, pockets allowing of course .

British Touring Cars was dead in the water  it stood back thought about it and implemented changes that have brought the sport alive again ,lesson to learn for s/way IMO.

[tonyd]

British speedway used to lead the world and my personal thoughts are that a revert back to two valve uprights is a must to save this sport in this country. True top riders might stay away to start with but on the flip side of the coin as someone said above most top riders have equipment in each country they ride in so what's to stop them having a upright setup here? Plus it will sort out the men from the boys a big part of uprights was throttle control something many modern riders would have to learn again. 

The other thing of course is that maybe other countries after a couple of seasons will see the cheaper running costs and think seriously about their long term future as well.  

With a revert back to uprights maybe its also time to bring back the track spare. Remember that tatty looking machine that was warmed up and parked at the back of the pits at each meeting and then ….. bike problems and the spare was rushed out for the home rider to jump onto, not his own machine or set up but every home rider could nearly always  get it round the track into the points.  

[Sotonian]

9 minutes ago, tonyd said:

British speedway used to lead the world and my personal thoughts are that a revert back to two valve uprights is a must to save this sport in this country. True top riders might stay away to start with but on the flip side of the coin as someone said above most top riders have equipment in each country they ride in so what's to stop them having a upright setup here? Plus it will sort out the men from the boys a big part of uprights was throttle control something many modern riders would have to learn again.   

Who is going to develop and build these engines for a single domestic market?