British Speedway to be reborn?

[TB1]

On 4/20/2020 at 9:35 AM, jchapman said:

The top two leagues of British speedway has for many years relied on cheap airlines to enable riders to race in multiple leagues around Europe, however with the aviation industry collapsing the knock on effect for British Speedway is simple….. it will not have access to riders who wish to race in more than just the British league as the logistics will just not allow it.

No star riders will mean a significant drop in crowds (I am guessing levels of 50% pre CV19) which will lead to lower revenues from ticket sales along with a significant drop in sponsorship/advertising revenue as well. If clubs have less money to spend then riders will also be paid less and some will probably turn their back on the sport as they cannot afford to ride, thus reducing the pool of available riders down even further.

In my opinion British Speedway needs to give up on the idea of their rider assets holding any financial value and press the reset button to create a new blueprint to survive post CV19 ready to be launched in March 2021 (subject to government restrictions).

I believe now is a great opportunity for supporters to share their thoughts and ideas on what British Speedway ‘reborn’ should look like and which clubs should be part of it so I can send them on to the current guardians of each club.

I look forward to reading the thoughts you may share on this.

All good points and I think that speedway like many other sports will need a rethink after this.

However it can depend on your point of view. If you were a Swindon or Leicester fan in 2020, then things were good. On the other hand if you supported Peterborough then you might view things differently.

Personally as an Ipswich fan I throughly enjoyed the season back in the top flight where I think we belong. And this season whilst initially i was sceptical about signing Jason Crump i do think the rest of the team is solid and I really hope we see something this season and the Crump signing will have my support. As far as the witches are concerned I fell like last year the club got its mojo back like days of old.

Looking forward I strongly think that finances will dictate a lot and some things including sport will just not be the same.

Just look at sponsorship, are companies going to be laying out money if possibly after upto 3 months of shutdown they are trying to rebuild business if indeed they are lucky enough to still be in business?

[waytogo28]

14 hours ago, Ben91 said:

The reality of the situation is simple. We must rip it up and start again. Now is as good a time as any to do so. With correct planning we could reboot British Speedway in time for the 2021 season with a model built for the long term success of the sport in this country and aspirations for it to thrive once again long term. 

The biggest problem with that idea ( which I mostly agree with ) is that there does not seem to be - within the BSPA at least - a grpup of planners who could agree and handle effectively, this much needed UK re-boot. Those with key vested interests ( including financial ) want things to go ahead with as little change as possible ( IMHO ). Sort of Carry On Regardless, in front of a dimishing number of fans.

[MattK]

40 minutes ago, waytogo28 said:

The biggest problem with that idea ( which I mostly agree with ) is that there does not seem to be - within the BSPA at least - a grpup of planners who could agree and handle effectively, this much needed UK re-boot. Those with key vested interests ( including financial ) want things to go ahead with as little change as possible ( IMHO ). Sort of Carry On Regardless, in front of a dimishing number of fans.

The reason there is no appetite for a re-boot is because all of the suggestions in this thread completely fly in the face of reality.

Over the last ten years the standard of riders in the Elite League/Premiership has declined and this has coincided with a decline in spectator number. This is an indisputable fact.

National League team charge a lower entry fee than Championship teams, which charge a lower entry fee than Premiership teams. Despite this on average Premiership teams get higher crowds than Championship teams who get higher crowds than National League teams. Therefore there is no evidence that lower entry fees encourages supporters.

When Premiership clubs have run National League teams they have resulted in significantly lower attendances. Therefore there is no evidence that fans will support a weaker product, regardless of admission cost.

All of the suggestions in this thread complete ignore the evidence that the last ten years of British speedway have laid out. If people wanted to see teams of mainly British riders and save a few quid on admission, then the National League would be thriving and every club in speedway would be running a team. It is not and they are not.

It is easy to spitball a wish list for British speedway. The difference is that promoters have to actually deliver a product and cough up for cash if (when) clubs make a loss. Could the ideas above work? Maybe, but all the evidence suggests otherwise. Therefore, if you were a promoter, would you completely re-boot British speedway into a format which is almost certainly going to lose you more money than you are today?

[Piotr Pyszny]

55 minutes ago, MattK said:

The reason there is no appetite for a re-boot is because all of the suggestions in this thread completely fly in the face of reality.

Over the last ten years the standard of riders in the Elite League/Premiership has declined and this has coincided with a decline in spectator number. This is an indisputable fact.

National League team charge a lower entry fee than Championship teams, which charge a lower entry fee than Premiership teams. Despite this on average Premiership teams get higher crowds than Championship teams who get higher crowds than National League teams. Therefore there is no evidence that lower entry fees encourages supporters.

When Premiership clubs have run National League teams they have resulted in significantly lower attendances. Therefore there is no evidence that fans will support a weaker product, regardless of admission cost.

All of the suggestions in this thread complete ignore the evidence that the last ten years of British speedway have laid out. If people wanted to see teams of mainly British riders and save a few quid on admission, then the National League would be thriving and every club in speedway would be running a team. It is not and they are not.

It is easy to spitball a wish list for British speedway. The difference is that promoters have to actually deliver a product and cough up for cash if (when) clubs make a loss. Could the ideas above work? Maybe, but all the evidence suggests otherwise. Therefore, if you were a promoter, would you completely re-boot British speedway into a format which is almost certainly going to lose you more money than you are today?

Nicely argued. But is doing nothing an option?

[Garry1603]

40 minutes ago, Piotr Pyszny said:

Nicely argued. But is doing nothing an option?

Probably most promoters favoured route based on the last thirty years!

[Crabba59]

3 hours ago, MattK said:

The reason there is no appetite for a re-boot is because all of the suggestions in this thread completely fly in the face of reality.

Over the last ten years the standard of riders in the Elite League/Premiership has declined and this has coincided with a decline in spectator number. This is an indisputable fact.

National League team charge a lower entry fee than Championship teams, which charge a lower entry fee than Premiership teams. Despite this on average Premiership teams get higher crowds than Championship teams who get higher crowds than National League teams. Therefore there is no evidence that lower entry fees encourages supporters.

When Premiership clubs have run National League teams they have resulted in significantly lower attendances. Therefore there is no evidence that fans will support a weaker product, regardless of admission cost.

All of the suggestions in this thread complete ignore the evidence that the last ten years of British speedway have laid out. If people wanted to see teams of mainly British riders and save a few quid on admission, then the National League would be thriving and every club in speedway would be running a team. It is not and they are not.

It is easy to spitball a wish list for British speedway. The difference is that promoters have to actually deliver a product and cough up for cash if (when) clubs make a loss. Could the ideas above work? Maybe, but all the evidence suggests otherwise. Therefore, if you were a promoter, would you completely re-boot British speedway into a format which is almost certainly going to lose you more money than you are today?

Not sure who posted on here about top riders coming back over here,  it was said that woffinden would put 600 plus fans on the gate just look when he  ride for wolves half way through the season he did NOT put that figure on top of the normal attendance.  If people think that way are living on a different planet . In the 90s yes but not now.

 

[DC2]

3 hours ago, MattK said:

Over the last ten years the standard of riders in the Elite League/Premiership has declined and this has coincided with a decline in spectator number. This is an indisputable fact.

 

But there’s no evidence that the first caused the second.

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

In the nicest way possible, most of the suggestions on here are a bit, crap - it is nothing out the box, and nothing that hasn't been mentioned and done to death 100 times. 

A new fan will most likely neither notice or care about such things as score boards or the overly done to death obsession with music played at a meeting. A subject that has been tirelessly spoken about on this forum for one which is so meaningless when it comes to reasons why people don't attend. 

As well as not being of interest to most new fans, the things mentioned have done little to retain fans who have left the sport, fans have dwindled out the door as the product has watered down because fans of a sport know what good looks like. 

If people want to stand and listen to music, they go to a thing called a concert, a pub or bar - very few people attend a meeting in the hope they will hear a fantastic song, very few reflect back on their speedway memories and reflect on the music played or the scoreboard - these things aren't the USP, they are a backdrop at best. 

The USP IS the sport, when people wish to attend they want to see fast racing and the best riders - this has shown over the years when the sport had better riders - more people were attending.... it now doesn't have the best riders, less people are attending. 

There is too much speedway in this country, the season is too long, the sport drags on months past it has to, there are too many finals, semi finals and championships  - they all just lose meaning and become lost in each other, in a desperate attempt to boost revenue by hosting more, the sport has just made everything less than, ends up with Finals and Semi Finals overlapping to the point they start to confuse each other. 

Speedway should be a league season, less meetings and attempt to boost the quality again. Once people know they are watching good again, they might consider the sport again.

A Poole fan who was spoiled on Rickardson, Loram, Holder etc isn't coming back for a score board and Calvin Harris music when he is having to watch a team the standard of that they have the last few years.

A new fan likely won't stick around long when they know they aren't watching the best on offer, there has always been a naivety around the idea a new fan would fall for the BS of just watching a good race, for a while at best they might, but more people want to see the best at their sport rather than those less than, most sports attendances reflect that - quality typically equates to a higher attendance. 

If you are asking people for the cost speedway tracks do you need to have some pretty decent USP's - scoreboards, music etc ain't that, people can find that at most other sports in the country which offer far superior stadia and facilities to that which most speedway tracks ever will, when they first walk into most their first impression at most tracks will likely be what a dump it is compared to stadiums and sports they have been at . It is actually probably more beneficial to draw peoples eyes away from most of the dumps they have to stand in. 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Hacksaw Jim Duggan

[DC2]

51 minutes ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

 

The USP IS the sport, when people wish to attend they want to see fast racing and the best riders - this has shown over the years when the sport had better riders - more people were attending.... it now doesn't have the best riders, less people are attending. 

 

 

Not sure that is a unique selling point.

Plenty of sports in this country have the best participants.

I don’t know what the USP is, other than good races are thrilling and following a team is “tribal”, similar to football but more pleasant

For me, the key is value for money.

If speedway were £10, albeit with lesser riders, my girlfriend and I would go every week.

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

7 minutes ago, DC2 said:

 

Not sure that is a unique selling point.

Plenty of sports in this country have the best participants.

I don’t know what the USP is, other than good races are thrilling and following a team is “tribal”, similar to football but more pleasant

For me, the key is value for money.

If speedway were £10, albeit with lesser riders, my girlfriend and I would go every week.

fast speedway racing and the best speedway riders is a pretty unique USP given that would be speedway exclusive though given my post was in context to the sport of speedway. 

There is a tendency on such threads when suggestions are put forward to think things like themed music are the selling point and what will attract people back, it likely won't that's not unique or different etc - the selling point, the thing that makes each sport unique, a draw or an attraction in the actual sport on offer, some can tend to have a tendency to over complicate that 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Hacksaw Jim Duggan

[DC2]

3 minutes ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

fast speedway racing and the best speedway riders is a pretty unique USP given that would be speedway exclusive though given my post was in context to the sport of speedway. 

 

I wonder where the balance lies?

Would people pay £50 to watch Polish quality teams or prefer £10 to watch lesser ones?

[Grachan]

Just now, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

fast speedway racing and the best speedway riders is a pretty unique USP given that would be speedway exclusive though given my post was in context to the sport of speedway. 

If you think people don't have an interest in the score then you are making a big mistake.

Why do you think the teams at the top of the league get better crowds than the teams at the bottom.

People like to see good racing, but there will always be a big decline in crowd levels once a team starts losing.

Use of music, keeping track of score etc are all part of the product. It's not just about the racing.

I agree that better standard of rider also means larger crowds, but you can have the best riders in the World but no added score or atmosphere and the evening will soon go flat.

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

Just now, DC2 said:

 

I wonder where the balance lies?

Would people pay £50 to watch Polish quality teams or prefer £10 to watch lesser ones?

I would say your figures are pretty skewed in favor of the answer you want from the question to be honest. 

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

3 minutes ago, Grachan said:

If you think people don't have an interest in the score then you are making a big mistake.

Score yes, scoreboard - it is totally moot re retention of fans. 

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Hacksaw Jim Duggan

[ch958]

whats the difference between gp riders and good league riders? 1, 2 or 3 seconds. Who notices? And as for entertainment, you get that with any standard of rider if they're willing to have a go. Look at Danny Ayres - loved at every track he rode at, just as much fun watching him as Jason Doyle

[DC2]

2 minutes ago, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

I would say your figures are pretty skewed in favor of the answer you want from the question to be honest. 

 

Possibly.

But how much do you think it would cost to field a team of

Hampel

Kolodziej

Kurtz

Lidsey

Piotr Pawlicki

Sayfutdinov

Smektala

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

Just now, ch958 said:

whats the difference between gp riders and good league riders? 1, 2 or 3 seconds. Who notices?

Loads and loads and loads of people, the notion the difference is 1, 2 or 3 seconds is beyond mental. 

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

1 minute ago, DC2 said:

But how much do you think it would cost to field a team of

I wouldn't even begin to know, nor it is particularly relevant as there is a slight readjustment here of you turning a horse into a giraffe on your own volition. 

[Baldyman]

Would a control ecu help,, works in some other motorsports 

[DC2]

Just now, Hacksaw Jim Duggan said:

I wouldn't even begin to know, nor it is particularly relevant as there is a slight readjustment here of you turning a horse into a giraffe on your own volition. 

 

What do you mean?  You’re beginning to slip from debate to abuse.

I said “Polish type team” and I’ve used Lesznos as an example.