Your best speedway year

[chunky]

9 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

You need to read the posts properly  first Chunky don't twist thing's around .My point was that he was 24 years old already World class and approaching his best and peak years. IF he had lived until 1982/84 he would of been a major force is that easy anough for you to grasp.!!!!!!

IF, IF, IF!!! It means absolutely nothing, because it didn't happen...

[waiheke1]

2 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

I  can never understand why people never mention Jansson ( only 24) he would of been at his peak at that time against those guys you mentioned.

For me two reasons. First I never saw him, I started going in 81. Secondly, my point was to highlight top riders lost in a short space of time, not all the top riders who missed out on that era.

Jansson possibly/probably would have been a contender in the 80s. That said, PC was a couple of years younger, a notch ahead of Jansson, and he didn't make a podium finish in the 1980s. You can point to his injury in 1980, arguably his last season at the very top, but this lead's back to Chunky's point, that you just don't know what would have happened to riders. I'd add,  in that era, I can  think of very few riders who were at their peak after the age of 30.

sport if full of what ifs. what if Tommy Knudsen hadn't had so many injuries. What if the Moran's loved enjoying life a little less. What if Egon had focussed on speedway. The 80s speedway landscape could have been very very different.

[salty]

Following on from the point above, there really was a changing of the guard in the early to mid 80's.

Look at the rostrum places from 1980 to 1983.

Lee, Jessup, Sanders, Penhall, Knudsen, Olsen, L Collins, Sigalos, Muller, 

By 1986 the only one doing a full season at the top level in Britain was Knudsen. Olsen, Penhall, Sigalos retired, Collins and Jessup in the National League, Lee did a truncated season and Sanders (and Carter) were no longer with us.

As for Tommy Jansson, he may well have hit the heights in the sport, but sadly we'll never know.

Edited May 7, 2020 by salty

[Terry]

I think a good example of not knowing what's going to happen is comparing Tony Rickardsson and Henrik Gustafsson. There was not much to choose between them early on, if anything Henka probably had the edge in the early 90's.

You'd never have guessed at that time that Tony would win 6 world titles and Henka wouldn't get anywhere near.

[waiheke1]

13 minutes ago, salty said:

Following on from the point above, there really was a changing of the guard in the early to mid 80's.

Look at the rostrum places from 1980 to 1983.

Lee, Jessup, Sanders, Penhall, Knudsen, Olsen, L Collins, Sigalos, Muller, 

By 1986 the only one doing a full season at the top level in Britain was Knudsen. Olsen, Penhall, Sigalos retired, Collins and Jessup in the National League, Lee did a truncated season and Sanders (and Carter) were no longer with us.

As for Tommy Jansson, he may well have hit the heights in the sport, but sadly we'll never know.

If you'd said after 81, that Penhall, Lee, K Moran, Jessup would all make only 1 more world final each and that Knudsen and and Carter would never as high in the world final again, i think people would have considered you crazy...

[BWitcher]

1 hour ago, Sidney the robin said:

The POINT you misunderstood  and  never quite grasped was from 1976 until 82 he would of matured as a rider.He was only 24 and in 1976  he had really gone up a level or to he was a top 16 rider in the world already.Ask Briggs,Michanek, Mauger, Collins,Knutsson,Olsen they all said he would of been at the top for along time.

MAY have matured. You don't know. Some riders reach a level and that's it.

Joe Screen a classic example.. Burst on scene as a 16 year old, got better and better, clocking up a 10.82 average in 1995 aged 22.

Yet he petered out (mainly due to a bad crash) and never troubled the elites at the highest level.

[BOBBATH]

I agree . BTW on youtube are very touching videos of Bruce Penhall  taking a lot of Kelly's old mates to see him in hospital to cheer him up-he was clearly very ill. He also brought along Kelly's wife and daughter -very moving. There is also a video of the memorial he held for Kelly at Costa Mesa-again along with Kelly's old racing buddies. I think Bruce was a great gentleman and had a very kind heart.

[Sidney the robin]

4 hours ago, BOBBATH said:

I agree . BTW on youtube are very touching videos of Bruce Penhall  taking a lot of Kelly's old mates to see him in hospital to cheer him up-he was clearly very ill. He also brought along Kelly's wife and daughter -very moving. There is also a video of the memorial he held for Kelly at Costa Mesa-again along with Kelly's old racing buddies. I think Bruce was a great gentleman and had a very kind heart.

Those videos were very moving and Penhall for me was great for the game and he often showed that he cared for others.He  had also suffered heartache in his life so Speedway is very secondary in the scheme of thing's.Maybe if Bruce had his time again he would of ended his career differently but it was his life so he did which he felt was best for him.God the years have gone so fast since Kelly passed great rider and person.RIP.

[Sidney the robin]

7 hours ago, salty said:

Following on from the point above, there really was a changing of the guard in the early to mid 80's.

Look at the rostrum places from 1980 to 1983.

Lee, Jessup, Sanders, Penhall, Knudsen, Olsen, L Collins, Sigalos, Muller, 

By 1986 the only one doing a full season at the top level in Britain was Knudsen. Olsen, Penhall, Sigalos retired, Collins and Jessup in the National League, Lee did a truncated season and Sanders (and Carter) were no longer with us.

As for Tommy Jansson, he may well have hit the heights in the sport, but sadly we'll never know.

You had the pleasure of seeing Tommy defeat Ashby in the helmet at Cradley in 1976 Salty.!!!

[steve roberts]

13 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

I  can never understand why people never mention Jansson ( only 24) he would of been at his peak at that time against those guys you mentioned.

It's a difficult one Sid as Tommy was tragically kiiled before he was able to fully develop as a World Class rider but when the likes of Peter Collins and Ivan Mauger have gone on record to suggest that he would have become a major force in world speedway I think says something.

[norbold]

56 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

It's a difficult one Sid as Tommy was tragically kiiled before he was able to fully develop as a World Class rider but when the likes of Peter Collins and Ivan Mauger have gone on record to suggest that he would have become a major force in world speedway I think says something.

Tommy Jansson is a classic example of a "what if" and a "we'll never know". His record at the time he died was good, but not that outstanding. He had won the World Pairs twice, but even then, on both occasions, it was very much as the junior partner to Anders Michanek. 1973: Michanek 15, Jansson 9; 1975: Michanek 17, Jansson 7. (By contrast in 1974, Sweden also won the World Pairs, but this time with Michanek 14, Sjosten 14).

As you say, riders like Collins and Mauger certainly rated him highly as did the Wimbledon faithful of course. But, sadly, it is a case of what if and we'll never know....

[iris123]

I'd say the Tommy Jansson years were my best years and maybe 1985-ish when Wimbledon dropped down. Strangely maybe, but I really enjoyed those first couple of seasons in the lower league and did travel about a bit too outside London

The 70s, when I could go to White City, Wimbledon and Hackney. Then the 80s with Wimbledon, Arena Essex and Hackney with regular trips to Rye or Eastie

Edited May 8, 2020 by iris123

[chunky]

4 minutes ago, iris123 said:

I'd say the Tommy Jansson years were my best years and maybe 1985-ish when Wimbledon dropped down. Strangely maybe, but I really enjoyed those first couple of seasons in the lower league and did travel about a bit too outside London

The 70s, when I could go to White City, Wimbledon and Hackney. Then the 80s with Wimbledon, Arena Essex and Hackney with regular trips to Rye or Eastie

I know we were devastated when we realized we were going National League, but it really was a breath of fresh air. Having that heat-leader trio of Johnsy, Mike, and Jamie, was great.

Having all those tracks within an hour of home was wonderful, and it is so depressing that we have lost nearly all of them...

[iris123]

1 minute ago, chunky said:

I know we were devastated when we realized we were going National League, but it really was a breath of fresh air. Having that heat-leader trio of Johnsy, Mike, and Jamie, was great.

Having all those tracks within an hour of home was wonderful, and it is so depressing that we have lost nearly all of them...

Absolutely agree

[salty]

Agreed with the above. I went to Plough Lane regularly from 1981 to closure and to be honest the last few seasons in the BL weren't great. But once I got used to it I liked the NL and when Russell Lanning hit involved there was a good vibe about the place. 

[Terry]

I always enjoyed my visits to Plough Lane in the late 80's. There was a great atmosphere with Dave Lanning's 'golden oldies' and friendly (most of the time) banter with the Dons supporters.

The London cup final in '88 stands out for me obviously, and the sense of anticipation when those two great professionals Steve Schofield and Andy Grahame met in '90.

It was such a shame it went wrong for both clubs the following year.

[Pinny]

Would of loved to of been about during the 80s in speedway , some of the videos look class on YouTube. 
 

as far as grand prixs go , there are a few riders who I feel have under achieved over the years. KK sticks out as the main one , so much talent , superb set up yet looked like he either lacked interest or confidence (or both) half the time. 
 

Lukas Dryml was without doubt heading for the very top until injuries stopped him , a great shame as he had it all. Could gate and pass and I have no doubt he would of been a world champ .

ward, as much as he was a buffoon off track , was a class act on it and would surely of been a gold medal winner at least once. 
 

andreas Jonsson , one of the best styles out there and a pure racer , but heard rumours he loved a party off track and that’s what held him back from consistently getting podium places. In full flight , he was cracking to watch.

[steve roberts]

Just now, Pinny said:

Would of loved to of been about during the 80s in speedway , some of the videos look class on YouTube. 
 

as far as grand prixs go , there are a few riders who I feel have under achieved over the years. KK sticks out as the main one , so much talent , superb set up yet looked like he either lacked interest or confidence (or both) half the time. 
 

Lukas Dryml was without doubt heading for the very top until injuries stopped him , a great shame as he had it all. Could gate and pass and I have no doubt he would of been a world champ .

ward, as much as he was a buffoon off track , was a class act on it and would surely of been a gold medal winner at least once. 
 

andreas Jonsson , one of the best styles out there and a pure racer , but heard rumours he loved a party off track and that’s what held him back from consistently getting podium places. In full flight , he was cracking to watch.

Oxford signed the Dryml brothers in 2000 on very high assessed averages I recall at the time. They somewhat struggled that year but came back all the stronger the following championship winning year. Lukas in particular was a revelation until a very zealous coming together with Peter Karlsson at King's Lynn when both went clattering into the fence. Lukas picked up a damaged knee and it played havoc with him for the rest of the year (picking up some unwanted publicity also it has to be said) and in my opinion was never the same rider again although he did go on to compete at the highest level for a number of years it has to be said.

[Pinny]

4 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

Oxford signed the Dryml brothers in 2000 on very high assessed averages I recall at the time. They somewhat struggled that year but came back all the stronger the following championship winning year. Lukas in particular was a revelation until a very zealous coming together with Peter Karlsson at King's Lynn when both went clattering into the fence. Lukas picked up a damaged knee and it played havoc with him for the rest of the year (picking up some unwanted publicity also it has to be said) and in my opinion was never the same rider again although he did go on to compete at the highest level for a number of years it has to be said.

I thought the crash in a Gp where he was lying on the track and looked dead was the one that done him ? I can’t remember fully but recall he was joint top of the Gp standings after a few rounds?

[steve roberts]

15 minutes ago, Pinny said:

I thought the crash in a Gp where he was lying on the track and looked dead was the one that done him ? I can’t remember fully but recall he was joint top of the Gp standings after a few rounds?

I just remember that in 2002 at Oxford he never looked the same rider having previously displayed great potential. Yes I seem to recall that he went on to ride with a certain amount of success in the GPs but after a somewhat disappointing year at Oxford he moved to pastures new.

Edited May 8, 2020 by steve roberts