Your best speedway year

[chunky]

1 minute ago, steve roberts said:

Probably a lot of truth in that...although best of mates I'm sure that pride was at stake even as advisors to rival riders.

Happens in all sports... We had Bristow and Lowe.

[nw42]

1 minute ago, steve roberts said:

Probably a lot of truth in that...although best of mates I'm sure that pride was at stake even as advisors to rival riders.

Most definitely, I imagine they both gave all the help they could to ensure their protege took the honours.

[Garry1603]

9 minutes ago, nw42 said:

Most definitely, I imagine they both gave all the help they could to ensure their protege took the honours.

A little bit of 'reflected glory' as well no doubt

[steve roberts]

4 hours ago, iris123 said:

As norbold said you do make some good contributions. Not trying to lecture you, just friendly advice. I know from experience that I made what I thought was a relatively innocuous post about Dave Morton and it escalated into a few pages of back and forth and I still don’t know how, apart from you don’t like other opinions or facts

It would be better if all of us just let things go sometimes. And I include myself

Good point and in total agreement.

[E I Addio]

11 hours ago, norbold said:

Yes, I certainly agree about Knutson. Being a West Ham supporter, I had the great fortune of seeing Knutson and Harrfeldt week in and week out. I would definitely agree that Knutson would certainly have given Mauger a run for his money. He was class personified. They always say it was his nerves that got the better of him on the big occasion and that was why he didn't win more world titles. Not sure how true that is, but I expect that after winning once and proved himself he would have gone on to dominate the sport in the late 60s and maybe into the 70s.

Harrfeldt, I'm not so sure about. Yes, he was a great rider, as his 2nd place in 1966 showed, and he may have gone on to win a world title, but I don't think he was quite in the Fundin, Briggs, Knutson, Mauger class.

My thoughts entirely , but on the subject of Knutson, are you aware of the actual reason he retired so early norbold ? I’ve heard people speculate on it and based on ah interview in SS I formed the impression that he felt he had had a good run, reached the pinnacle of World Champion, and came through relatively unscathed apart from a broken arm, so he decided to quit while he was in front, but that’s just my impression and I’ve always wondered about the real reason .

[norbold]

1 hour ago, E I Addio said:

My thoughts entirely , but on the subject of Knutson, are you aware of the actual reason he retired so early norbold ? I’ve heard people speculate on it and based on ah interview in SS I formed the impression that he felt he had had a good run, reached the pinnacle of World Champion, and came through relatively unscathed apart from a broken arm, so he decided to quit while he was in front, but that’s just my impression and I’ve always wondered about the real reason .

My understanding of what happened to Knutson was partly as you say, also that his form suffered in 1966 because he was getting too involved in his business interests and unable to concentrate as he would have liked on speedway so he decided he couldn't continue with both and it was speedway that had to give.

[Sidney the robin]

15 hours ago, norbold said:

I'm sorry, Sidney, but iris is right. It's such a shame because most times on these Years Gone By posts you usually have some interesting things to say, but really, you don't do yourself any favours when you get into these sort of personal rants about people just because you happen to disagree with them.

You have to look on how Chunky sometimes talks down to people Norbold nothing to do with being right or wrong.Yes i get it WRONG 99 per cent of the time i admit that sometimes the word FACT gets used wrongly.I don't dislike Chunky never met the guy but it is odvious he dislikes me and usually gets  himself  involved in twit/for tat with me.The shame of it is that Steve, yourself, Bewitcher, Split ( etc) add great contributions to the forum and it is usually enjoyable to read.

[Sidney the robin]

On 4/17/2020 at 10:15 AM, one of clubs said:

For me, Tai was not a patch on PC. One was a rider who won all there was to win, turned up and proudly rode for their country winning ten world championship honours, and was the darling of the sport and further popularised it at the time. The other was, in comparison, someone who could not be arsed, as it was all about him. Sad but true.

I agree 100 per cent with you is it right or wrong? who knows it is just funny that Chunky never responded to you.Yet he concentrated all his efforts on my posts not a surprise really.!!!!

[fatface]

16 hours ago, Garry1603 said:

Fair enough.  Gundersen was also an Elite rider (to put it mildly!), just think Neilsen was a little bit more consistent and wouldn't have any 'poor' meetings which might have ultimately cost him.

We'll never know, both were superstars!

Interesting that in world final head to heads, including run offs, Gundersen won 8 of the 11 races with Nielsen.

It's very interesting to discuss which world champions would still have been had the GP system been in place them and vice versa. But very difficult to accurately say, because both required entirely different approaches. One rewards the ability to peak on a given high pressure occasion, the other high quality consistency over a sustained period. 

I've worked closely in athletics and seen the former approach up close. Athletes will "compete" through the season, but it is all towards being in maximum peak performance condition for the Olympics. Quite often there are athletes who will get beaten on the circuit, but they have been balancing heavy training with competition where they are testing tactics/techniques and by the time they get to the big one, they are ready to win. 

In speedway terms, in short, I think Gundersen would have adapted. I don't think Nielsen would have dominated quite as much as some think. Gundersen had an unnerving ability to deliver when it mattered and I reckon he would have done the same under a GP system. 

Similarly, I have also seen Mark Loram's win sometimes questioned and yet I think the GP format was - on paper - a trickier format for him than a one-off. On a given day he was well capable of beating the world's best and that year, he was consistently brilliant. So in my mind, it was thoroughly deserved. 

[steve roberts]

17 minutes ago, falcace said:

Interesting that in world final head to heads, including run offs, Gundersen won 8 of the 11 races with Nielsen.

It's very interesting to discuss which world champions would still have been had the GP system been in place them and vice versa. But very difficult to accurately say, because both required entirely different approaches. One rewards the ability to peak on a given high pressure occasion, the other high quality consistency over a sustained period. 

I've worked closely in athletics and seen the former approach up close. Athletes will "compete" through the season, but it is all towards being in maximum peak performance condition for the Olympics. Quite often there are athletes who will get beaten on the circuit, but they have been balancing heavy training with competition where they are testing tactics/techniques and by the time they get to the big one, they are ready to win. 

In speedway terms, in short, I think Gundersen would have adapted. I don't think Nielsen would have dominated quite as much as some think. Gundersen had an unnerving ability to deliver when it mattered and I reckon he would have done the same under a GP system. 

Similarly, I have also seen Mark Loram's win sometimes questioned and yet I think the GP format was - on paper - a trickier format for him than a one-off. On a given day he was well capable of beating the world's best and that year, he was consistently brilliant. So in my mind, it was thoroughly deserved. 

Yes I'm sure that there is some truth in that but I still think that Nielsen's record (and I watched him closely for nine seasons at many varying tracks) would have borne fruit if the GP series had been around during the eighties. Interesting that there was an article in 'Backtrack' many years ago on this very subject and John Berry tended to come down in favour of Nielsen.

[fatface]

4 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

Yes I'm sure that there is some truth in that but I still think that Nielsen's record (and I watched him closely for nine seasons at many varying tracks) would have borne fruit if the GP series had been around during the eighties. Interesting that there was an article in 'Backtrack' many years ago on this very subject and John Berry tended to come down in favour of Nielsen.

If you asked me to compile a list of the most skillful speedway riders ever, he'd be top or bloody close to the top. 

If you asked me to compile a list of the best riders in high pressure situations, he'd slip a bit. 

In the end, I'd finish sitting on the fence a bit and saying that the world championship split between Gundersen and Nielsen would be about the same GP or one off format. 

[steve roberts]

11 minutes ago, falcace said:

If you asked me to compile a list of the most skillful speedway riders ever, he'd be top or bloody close to the top. 

If you asked me to compile a list of the best riders in high pressure situations, he'd slip a bit. 

In the end, I'd finish sitting on the fence a bit and saying that the world championship split between Gundersen and Nielsen would be about the same GP or one off format. 

Just checking John Berry's "More Confessions" and he broke down into three categories when wishing to come up with his best ever. They were for "Skill",  "Equipment" & "Mental Strength" 

Mauger 9 - 10 - 9-5

Rickardsson 9-5 - 9.5 - 9.5

Nielsen 9.5 - 9.5 - 9

Briggs 9 - 8.5 - 10

Fundin 9.5 - 8.5 - 9.5

Olsen 9.5 - 9 - 9

Penhall 9 - 9.5 - 9

Collins 9 - 9 - 9

Gundersen 9 - 9 -9

j.Crump 9 - 9 - 9

Lee 9.5 - 9.5 - 7

Michanek 9 - 8.5 - 8

His analysis on each rider I found interesting and obviously very much open to personal opinions/observation. Interesting he gave 'Briggo' a ten for "mental strength" but when you read John's close analysis you can see why!

 

[customhouseregular]

13 hours ago, E I Addio said:

My thoughts entirely , but on the subject of Knutson, are you aware of the actual reason he retired so early norbold ? I’ve heard people speculate on it and based on ah interview in SS I formed the impression that he felt he had had a good run, reached the pinnacle of World Champion, and came through relatively unscathed apart from a broken arm, so he decided to quit while he was in front, but that’s just my impression and I’ve always wondered about the real reason .

Bjorne had panache, Sverre had dash. Bjorne had what it took to win more titles. Sverre in full flight could have been champion. What I do know is that having Knutson, Harrfeldt, Hunter, McKinlay and Simmons at Custom House made Hammers fans very happy.

[DC2]

3 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

Just checking John Berry's "More Confessions" and he broke down into three categories when wishing to come up with his best ever. They were for "Skill",  "Equipment" & "Mental Strength" 

Mauger 9 - 10 - 9-5

Rickardsson 9-5 - 9.5 - 9.5

Nielsen 9.5 - 9.5 - 9

Briggs 9 - 8.5 - 10

Fundin 9.5 - 8.5 - 9.5

Olsen 9.5 - 9 - 9

Penhall 9 - 9.5 - 9

Collins 9 - 9 - 9

Gundersen 9 - 9 -9

j.Crump 9 - 9 - 9

Lee 9.5 - 9.5 - 7

Michanek 9 - 8.5 - 8

His analysis on each rider I found interesting and obviously very much open to personal opinions/observation. Interesting he gave 'Briggo' a ten for "mental strength" but when you read John's close analysis you can see why!

 

 

Collins only 9 for skill?  I’d have thought 9.5, but only 8.5 for equipment.

[Sidney the robin]

16 hours ago, chunky said:

Not in your eyes, apparently. Seems like you think I am a stupid tw*t...

Far from it Chunky i enjoy your posts very much and you are far from being a prat.No malice on my part and a full opology from me which is geniune ok.

[E I Addio]

15 minutes ago, customhouseregular said:

Bjorne had panache, Sverre had dash. Bjorne had what it took to win more titles. Sverre in full flight could have been champion. What I do know is that having Knutson, Harrfeldt, Hunter, McKinlay and Simmons at Custom House made Hammers fans very happy.

....and Olle Nygren,  Christer Loftquist, and Tony Clarke in later years ! 

[customhouseregular]

Just now, E I Addio said:

....and Olle Nygren,  Christer Loftquist, and Tony Clarke in later years ! 

I never really took to Olle but Chister was magic. I don’t know if I dreamed this or imagined it but I have a memory of seeing two sidecar speedway riders tragically lose their lives at Custom House. I have seen mention of it anywhere so probably a false memory. No doubt Norbold would know.

[steve roberts]

4 minutes ago, DC2 said:

 

Collins only 9 for skill?  I’d have thought 9.5, but only 8.5 for equipment.

Yes there were certainly some interesting observations...I guess that he may well have been 'blinded' by Collins not being a master of the Ipswich track and basing his judgement accordingly?

[E I Addio]

11 minutes ago, customhouseregular said:

I never really took to Olle but Chister was magic. I don’t know if I dreamed this or imagined it but I have a memory of seeing two sidecar speedway riders tragically lose their lives at Custom House. I have seen mention of it anywhere so probably a false memory. No doubt Norbold would know.

I’ve never heard of sidecar racing ever being staged at Custom House, and certainly no fatalities. To the best of my knowledge there were four fatalities, all solo riders, two in the mid sixties and two in the early fifties. Three, I think fell and were hit by following riders, and of course Teo who hit the safety fence. 

Of course there were those who died in the Lokoren tragedy.  That hit me very hard. I really thought Peter Bradshaw and especially Martin Piddock had big futures in the sport. Peter had a beautiful classy style that I loved watching. Martin was already a quality grasstracker when he came to Custom House and I really felt he was going to be a second Malcolm Simmons.
 

 

[norbold]

39 minutes ago, E I Addio said:

....and Olle Nygren,  Christer Loftquist, and Tony Clarke in later years ! 

And we must never forget Stan Stevens.