Your best speedway year

[BOBBATH]

5 minutes ago, norbold said:

I'm sorry, Sidney, but iris is right. It's such a shame because most times on these Years Gone By posts you usually have some interesting things to say, but really, you don't do yourself any favours when you get into these sort of personal rants about people just because you happen to disagree with them.

 

5 minutes ago, norbold said:

I'm sorry, Sidney, but iris is right. It's such a shame because most times on these Years Gone By posts you usually have some interesting things to say, but really, you don't do yourself any favours when you get into these sort of personal rants about people just because you happen to disagree with them.

Why is everybody getting so uptight?-lets go back to talking about the CH pork sarnies  (sorry!!!!)

[steve roberts]

9 minutes ago, BOBBATH said:

 

Why is everybody getting so uptight?-lets go back to talking about the CH pork sarnies  (sorry!!!!)

You know that on all the visits I made to Dudley Wood...and there were many during the rivalry that existed between Oxford and Cradley and Nielsen and Gundersen...I don't recall partaking in such a delicacy? I know thay were for sale but I guess it just past me by. I preferred the fish 'n' chips we used to buy at Shipston-on-Stour on the way back home!

[Grachan]

7 hours ago, steve roberts said:

...if it had been introduced during the eighties Nielsen would have dominated the scene of which I have no doubt.

I think so too. But this is the thing. Does that mean it is harder or easier to win a one-off World Final?

A one-off World Final was harder to win for Nielsen but, at the same time, probably easier to win for Gundersen, who was more of a 'rise to the occasion' rider.

You can't say one was easier or harder than the other. At the end of the day/series there is still only one winner,

[racers and royals]

3 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

You know that on all the visits I made to Dudley Wood...and there were many during the rivalry that existed between Oxford and Cradley and Nielsen and Gundersen...I don't recall partaking in such a delicacy? I know thay were for sale but I guess it just past me by. I preferred the fish 'n' chips we used to buy at Shipston-on-Stour on the way back home!

We used to have both 

[steve roberts]

2 minutes ago, Grachan said:

I think so too. But this is the thing. Does that mean it is harder or easier to win a one-off World Final?

A one-off World Final was harder to win for Nielsen but, at the same time, probably easier to win for Gundersen, who was more of a 'rise to the occasion' rider.

You can't say one was easier or harder than the other. At the end of the day/series there is still only one winner,

Fair analysis. Nielsen was more consistant and therefore dominant over any given year whereas Gundersen, as you say, could raise himself when required.

[iris123]

46 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

No please Iris don't lecture me !!! you Chunky,Bewitcher are joint at the hip grow a backbone  be independent believe in yourself.You three are all predictable a real shame as you all have a lot to offer 

As norbold said you do make some good contributions. Not trying to lecture you, just friendly advice. I know from experience that I made what I thought was a relatively innocuous post about Dave Morton and it escalated into a few pages of back and forth and I still don’t know how, apart from you don’t like other opinions or facts

It would be better if all of us just let things go sometimes. And I include myself

[Garry1603]

26 minutes ago, Grachan said:

I think so too. But this is the thing. Does that mean it is harder or easier to win a one-off World Final?

A one-off World Final was harder to win for Nielsen but, at the same time, probably easier to win for Gundersen, who was more of a 'rise to the occasion' rider.

You can't say one was easier or harder than the other. At the end of the day/series there is still only one winner,

Would certainly agree with that. I also think Michael Lee (and most of the Americans) would have struggled in the GPs because consistency over a few months was a problem for them. Neilsen in the 80s / 90s and Mauger in the 60s / 70s would have won even more titles because of their ability to perform every time.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Garry1603

[steve roberts]

23 minutes ago, Garry1603 said:

Would certainly agree with that. I also think Michael Lee (and most of the Americans) would have struggled in the GPs because consistency over a few months was a problem for them. Neilsen in the 80s / 90s and Mauger in the 60s / 70s would have won even more titles because of their ability to perform every time.

I would agree with that.

[BWitcher]

36 minutes ago, Garry1603 said:

Would certainly agree with that. I also think Michael Lee (and most of the Americans) would have struggled in the GPs because consistency over a few months was a problem for them. Neilsen in the 80s / 90s and Mauger in the 60s / 70s would have won even more titles because of their ability to perform every time.

I understand what you're saying.. however, it doesn't always work that way.

A GP is still a case of 'rising to the occasion' and we've seen since the advent of the GP series certain riders tend to do that.

Rickardsson was never the most dominant in league speedway.. he was of course very good, but not to the levels of a Nielsen in his pomp. But when a GP rolled round, he stepped up a gear.

Yet someone like Leigh Adams who you would have thought a GP system would suit due to his ultra consistency.. never won a GP series.

I strongly suspect someone like Gundersen would still have won titles under the GP system.

Strong argument that Ermolenko would have been favorite in 91/92/93 or certainly very close to.

Edited April 18, 2020 by BWitcher

[Garry1603]

13 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

I understand what you're saying.. however, it doesn't always work that way.

A GP is still a case of 'rising to the occasion' and we've seen since the advent of the GP series certain riders tend to do that.

Rickardsson was never the most dominant in league speedway.. he was of course very good, but not to the levels of a Nielsen in his pomp. But when a GP rolled round, he stepped up a gear.

Yet someone like Leigh Adams who you would have thought a GP system would suit due to his ultra consistency.. never won a GP series.

Yes, I totally except that and Leigh Adams should have benefited from the GP format, but with the greatest of respect to him, I don't think that he was ever quite the world's best rider, he always had a Pedersen or Crump to face who over the course of a season had slightly too much for him. Can I just add that I loved Leigh Adams as well !

Rickardsson was always an Elite rider, but he had the ability to raise his game still further for the GPs.

I think the point I was trying to make is that was that if you are already an 'Elite' rider and can also bring your 'A game'  to each GP, over the course of a season you should prevail - that's why I think the Maugers and Neilsens would benefit most.

 

[BWitcher]

12 minutes ago, Garry1603 said:

Yes, I totally except that and Leigh Adams should have benefited from the GP format, but with the greatest of respect to him, I don't think that he was ever quite the world's best rider, he always had a Pedersen or Crump to face who over the course of a season had slightly too much for him. Can I just add that I loved Leigh Adams as well !

Rickardsson was always an Elite rider, but he had the ability to raise his game still further for the GPs.

I think the point I was trying to make is that was that if you are already an 'Elite' rider and can also bring your 'A game'  to each GP, over the course of a season you should prevail - that's why I think the Maugers and Neilsens would benefit most.

 

Gundersen was an elite rider though was he not?

He'd have rose to the GP's just the same in my opinion. So although you might expect Nielsen to have won more, it may not have been the case..

Edited April 18, 2020 by BWitcher

[Garry1603]

Just now, BWitcher said:

Gundersen was an elite rider though was he not?

He'd have rose to the GP's just the same in my opinion. So although you might expect Nielsen to have won more, it may not have been the case..

Fair enough.  Gundersen was also an Elite rider (to put it mildly!), just think Neilsen was a little bit more consistent and wouldn't have any 'poor' meetings which might have ultimately cost him.

We'll never know, both were superstars!

[Grachan]

6 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

Gundersen was an elite rider though was he not?

He'd have rose to the GP's just the same in my opinion. So although you might expect Nielsen to have won more, it may not have been the case..

Gundersen would have been more likely to winGPs when they had the knock out and elimination heats.

I think I've said this before, but under that system I can imagine Nielsen winning every heat while Gundersen ended up in eliminators and scraped through to the final only to then win it.

[steve roberts]

36 minutes ago, Grachan said:

Gundersen would have been more likely to winGPs when they had the knock out and elimination heats.

I think I've said this before, but under that system I can imagine Nielsen winning every heat while Gundersen ended up in eliminators and scraped through to the final only to then win it.

That sounds about right! Of course the presence of Olsen in Gundersen's side of the pits would have had an adverse effect on Hans which is why he balanced the 'mind games' by having Ivan by his side. I understand a film has been made covering this very episode?

I remember articles in "Backtrack" comparing seasons 1985 & 86 and head to head confrontations between Nielsen and Gundersen and Hans came out on top during both seasons but Gundersen won the encounter that was critical at Bradford in 1985.

Edited April 18, 2020 by steve roberts

[nw42]

2 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

That sounds about right! Of course the presence of Olsen in Gundersen's side of the pits would have had an adverse effect on Hans which is why he balanced the 'mind games' by having Ivan by his side.

Knowing a little of the business acumen of both Ole & Ivan it was probably a rivalry cooked up by the pair of them to ensure they both had all expenses paid trips to all the prestige meetings, sly old dogs the pair of them.

[chunky]

4 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

Chunky you are a fraud

Please elucidate...

I am not who I say I am? I don't have any knowledge of speedway? What exactly do you mean

4 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

you have an agenda certainly against me

I certainly do not have an agenda against you. I have stated many times that I just have a problem with stupidity. More than that, I have a problem with you accusing me of things. I have told you about that before, yet you continue to do so. Why can you not comprehend the fact that if you make accusations and lie, then people are going to take you to task.

Recently, we seemed to be getting along fine, talking about England's best. Suddenly, I agree with a factual post by someone else, and you throw your toys out of the pram!

[steve roberts]

1 hour ago, Garry1603 said:

Yes, I totally except that and Leigh Adams should have benefited from the GP format, but with the greatest of respect to him, I don't think that he was ever quite the world's best rider, he always had a Pedersen or Crump to face who over the course of a season had slightly too much for him. Can I just add that I loved Leigh Adams as well !

Rickardsson was always an Elite rider, but he had the ability to raise his game still further for the GPs.

I think the point I was trying to make is that was that if you are already an 'Elite' rider and can also bring your 'A game'  to each GP, over the course of a season you should prevail - that's why I think the Maugers and Neilsens would benefit most.

 

Having viewed Leigh Adams close up as a 'Cheetah' for two seasons I always felt that he lacked a certain amount of ruthlessness when it mattered although a superb rider it has to be said.

[norbold]

Yes, I find this speculation on who would have won under Grand Prix v. one-offs endlessly fascinating - especially as we can never know the answer. It has always been my opinion, for example, that in the era of the Big Five, taken over a season of Grand Prix, Ove Fundin would have won more titles than the five he actually did win. He was the best and most consistent rider around for something like eight years at least and would have definitely been in the running for a further four . Maybe Briggo might have stopped him once or twice, but I think we could add at least another two to Fundin's tally of wins and I don't think three would be out of the question. So possibly seven or eight titles.

[steve roberts]

3 minutes ago, nw42 said:

Knowing a little of the business acumen of both Ole & Ivan it was probably a rivalry cooked up by the pair of them to ensure they both had all expenses paid trips to all the prestige meetings, sly old dogs the pair of them.

Probably a lot of truth in that...although best of mates I'm sure that pride was at stake even as advisors to rival riders.

[chunky]

4 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

Have you ever made a sensible post Chunky ?

Not in your eyes, apparently. Seems like you think I am a stupid tw*t...