Your best speedway year

[E I Addio]

8 hours ago, BWitcher said:

There are qualifying rounds every year, if they're good enough, they'll qualify.

Would Egon Muller have won a GP series? Or Jerzy Szakiel (excuse spelling!)? 

Those two are precisely the reason, IMO , why the One Day Final had to evolve into the GP series in a changing world. If I you look at all the winners prior to Szczakiel , luck obviously played an small part in their wins but you could say that if they were not the absolute best in the world at that time they were pretty close to it. I don’t think you could genuinely say that about either Muller or Szczakiel, and I very much doubt whether either of them would have won if not on their home territory. From ‘73 onwards some riders were getting onto the podium who  were, good riders on the day but not really worthy of top three in the world by any objective test. The GP system was fairer by the time it was introduced , but I can’t help feeling even that has now run its course.

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by E I Addio

[E I Addio]

29 minutes ago, norbold said:

Why do you think he was "approaching his peak"? What evidence is there for that? Remember he first won the World title in 1955. He was roughly the same age as Fundin and Briggs; Knutson was younger. I would say that all of them, Craven included, were AT their peak in the early-mid 60s.

In addition, I know it's not a fact and just my opinion, but as someone who was around at the time, I would say Craven was fourth best of those four. A view supported by the Speedway Star, who placed him 4th behind Fundin, Knutson, Briggs (in that order) in their 1963 end of year rankings list. Personally, as I said, my view is that he would not have won another World title. Of course, we will never know and who knows what part luck might have played in subsequent finals?

I agree with that, but the more intriguing question is whether Mauger would have won six world titles if Knutson had carried on riding or indeed if Harrfeldt had not suffered his serious injuries. Both were closer to Maugers age than Briggs , Moore or Fundin who were all slightly past their best when Mauger was reaching his peak. Harrfeldt’s record certainly proved he had the talent to take a one off title but I can’t help feeling that Knutssons best was still to come.

[iris123]

8 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

It is stale and boring and when most of  the older riders exile it will move on again.

But that is the trouble with having the best riders.... they just don’t change every couple of years

Take any sport like say tennis or skiing etc the top people remain on top for years. That is the nature of the beast, apart from when someone gets injured or retired early..,,

[steve roberts]

27 minutes ago, E I Addio said:

Those two are precisely the reason, IMO , why the One Day Final had to evolve into the GP series in a changing world. If I you look at all the winners prior to Szczakiel , luck obviously played an small part in their wins but you could say that if they were not the absolute best in the world at that time they were pretty close to it. I don’t think you could genuinely say that about either Muller or Szczakiel, and I very much doubt whether either of them would have won if not on their home territory. From ‘73 onwards some riders were getting onto the podium who  were, good riders on the day but not really worthy of top three in the world by any objective test. The GP system was fairer by the time it was introduced , but I can’t help feeling even that has now run its course.

 

...if it had been introduced during the eighties Nielsen would have dominated the scene of which I have no doubt.

[steve roberts]

57 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...if it had been introduced during the eighties Nielsen would have dominated the scene of which I have no doubt.

...and if the one off Final had still been in operation would Mark Loram have become World Champion in 2000? All pure conjecture, of course. and personally I always find it difficult comparing eras (whatever the sport) as the world was a different place back then with many differing criteria especailly when attempting to analyse sporting achievements and/or events and/or circumstances.

[fatface]

2 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

I think not a different era a different challenge believe it or not we are all entitled to maybe have a different opinion.? 

Jeez. This kicked off. Again!

We are all biased to some degree, the difficulty is being able to put that natural bias aside in order to be rational. I'd love to say that Chris Morton is the greatest rider ever but I cannot credibly back that up. 

Thing is, if your starting position for a discussion is personal preference and prejudice and not facts and evidence, you always going to struggle when challenged.

 

[norbold]

2 hours ago, E I Addio said:

I agree with that, but the more intriguing question is whether Mauger would have won six world titles if Knutson had carried on riding or indeed if Harrfeldt had not suffered his serious injuries. Both were closer to Maugers age than Briggs , Moore or Fundin who were all slightly past their best when Mauger was reaching his peak. Harrfeldt’s record certainly proved he had the talent to take a one off title but I can’t help feeling that Knutssons best was still to come.

Yes, I certainly agree about Knutson. Being a West Ham supporter, I had the great fortune of seeing Knutson and Harrfeldt week in and week out. I would definitely agree that Knutson would certainly have given Mauger a run for his money. He was class personified. They always say it was his nerves that got the better of him on the big occasion and that was why he didn't win more world titles. Not sure how true that is, but I expect that after winning once and proved himself he would have gone on to dominate the sport in the late 60s and maybe into the 70s.

Harrfeldt, I'm not so sure about. Yes, he was a great rider, as his 2nd place in 1966 showed, and he may have gone on to win a world title, but I don't think he was quite in the Fundin, Briggs, Knutson, Mauger class.

[Garry1603]

On 4/17/2020 at 10:14 AM, steve roberts said:

I remember reading John Berry's comparison between Peter Collins and Chris Morton. He always thought that both could give opponents a head start at Hyde Road and overcome their lack of gating prowess but he did think that Peter could gate if he put his mind to it at tracks that were less complimentary whereas he felt Chris lacked that ability having to rely more than Peter on his ability to pass opponents. Apparently that was one reason when England boss he went with the inexperienced Kelvin Tatum rather than Chris during the World Pairs in 1985.

PC could certainly gate when it came down to it - the World Final in 1977 when he rode with a broken leg and couldn't get on and off his bike, and also many times at Coventry in the British Final (where common perception was that it wouldn't suit PC as it was primarily a gaters paradise)

[steve roberts]

17 minutes ago, Garry1603 said:

PC could certainly gate when it came down to it - the World Final in 1977 when he rode with a broken leg and couldn't get on and off his bike, and also many times at Coventry in the British Final (where common perception was that it wouldn't suit PC as it was primarily a gaters paradise)

...and of course there were the occasions at Wembley in 1973 when he out-gated that master from the tapes Anders Michanek one, of which, resulted in an exclusion for Michanek which was debatable in my view.

Edited April 18, 2020 by steve roberts

[Garry1603]

1 hour ago, steve roberts said:

...and if the one off Final had still been in operation would Mark Loram have become World Champion in 2000? All pure conjecture, of course. and personally I always find it difficult comparing eras (whatever the sport) as the world was a different place back then with many differing criteria especailly when attempting to analyse sporting achievements and/or events and/or circumstances.

I agree, it's impossible to compare different eras in pretty much all sports (the perennial who was better Pele or Messi, Sampras or Federer, Bradman or Richards etc etc). You actually CAN'T compare as they were the best they could be in their own era and that comes down to ability, mentality, coaching, support, fitness and motivation. If Bradman were around today, would he be any good?..... yes of course he would because he had the mentality and the other attributes to MAKE himself good.

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by Garry1603

[steve roberts]

16 minutes ago, Garry1603 said:

I agree, it's impossible to compare different eras in pretty much all sports (the perennial who was better Pele or Messi, Sampras or Federer, Bradman or Richards etc etc). You actually CAN'T compare as they were the best they could be in their own era and that comes down to ability, mentality, coaching, support, fitness and motivation. If Bradman were around today, would he be any good?..... yes of course he would because he had the mentality and the other attributes to MAKE himself good.

 

Absolutely. Jackie Stewart made similar comparisons in his most excellent autobiography.

[chunky]

5 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

I think not a different era a different challenge believe it or not we are all entitled to maybe have a different opinion.? 

It has NOTHING to do with opinions! You need to stop make ridiculously false accusations.

[chunky]

3 hours ago, falcace said:

Jeez. This kicked off. Again!

Well, you started it! I suppose that's what happens when you make a sensible post on here...

[steve roberts]

Another favourite year was 1984 (yes! I'm allowed more than one!). A new era was about to commence at Cowley. The buzz of excitement and anticipation was immense.

Having spent eight mostly enjoyable years in the National League Northern Sports thought it was the right thing to re-join the British League. Hackney's licence was purchased and a great looking team full of potential and experience was gathered. Hans Nielsen, Simon Wigg, Jens Rasmussen, Marvyn Cox, Melvyn Taylor with both Nigel Sparshott (some years later to be tragically kileed in a car accident) and Ian Clark were retained from the 1983 side.

The team started the season like dynamite with away wins at King's Lynn, Ipswich, Wimbledon, Exeter and Reading and continued on their merry way despite Wimbledon upsetting the party at Cowley with a side inspired by one-time "Rebel" Gordon Kennett. Unfortunately injuries began to take their toll and the stuffing was knocked out of the team and the rest of season tailed off but what memories...and, of course, things got even better in 1985 and 1986! What memories!

[Sidney the robin]

53 minutes ago, chunky said:

Well, you started it! I suppose that's what happens when you make a sensible post on here...

Have you ever made a sensible post Chunky ? unless you really believe in yourself?..Your latest statement shows me you have a real,arrogance my friend can you ever look at any other people's opinion and maybe come in the middle i,think not you feel you know best sad really.!!!!

[Sidney the robin]

1 hour ago, chunky said:

It has NOTHING to do with opinions! You need to stop make ridiculously false accusations.

Chunky you are a fraud and you have an agenda certainly against me if i said it was white you would say it was black.All would say is don't get  to stressed don't make your self ill maybe Bewitcher could help,you.?

Edited April 18, 2020 by Sidney the robin

[iris123]

1 hour ago, Sidney the robin said:

Chunky you are a fraud and you have an agenda certainly against me if i said it was white you would say it was black.All would say is don't get  to stressed don't make your self ill maybe Bewitcher could help,you.?

Sometimes you get deeply in trenches and can’t see the wood for the trees, Sid . Just let it go sometimes

[Sidney the robin]

8 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Sometimes you get deeply in trenches and can’t see the wood for the trees, Sid . Just let it go sometimes

No please Iris don't lecture me !!! you Chunky,Bewitcher are joint at the hip grow a backbone  be independent believe in yourself.You three are all predictable a real shame as you all have a lot to offer 

[BWitcher]

21 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Sometimes you get deeply in trenches and can’t see the wood for the trees, Sid . Just let it go sometimes

We're joined at the hip Iris! Sid's come out with some crackers in his time...

[norbold]

I'm sorry, Sidney, but iris is right. It's such a shame because most times on these Years Gone By posts you usually have some interesting things to say, but really, you don't do yourself any favours when you get into these sort of personal rants about people just because you happen to disagree with them.