Shrub Posted April 15, 2020 Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 (edited) Thought long and hard about this. I was lucky enough to watch the great Ipswich sides of the '70's and had a Dad who took me to lots of away meetings. The 1975-76 seasons, which Ipswich won with a team of home grown, local riders, all born within 20 miles of the stadium plus Billy Sanders who'd only ridden for the Witches since he was 16, were great. Never properly recognised for the achievement it was and also proved you can compete and be successful without using guests. Saw every Ipswich home and away in '81. 82, 84 and 98, seeing the Cowboy develop in 81 was fantastic, the 84 league and cup double a pleasant surprise and the 98 super team was a little dull to watch at home but superb away. But I'm not picking any of them. I'm going for 1990, another season I was fortunate enough to watch every match home and away . After John Berry left we had three disastrous, embarrassing seasons under the ownership of the charlatan Chris Shears. When he was finally kicked out we dropped down to the National League and it was like a breath of fresh air. The two seasons, 1989 and 90 provided great speedway, the Northern tours and were immense fun, with 1990 just shading '89 for entertainment. A young exciting side lead by for me the most entertaining (and brave to the point of lunacy!) rider to ever wear the Witch - Moggo. Great days, but we actually won bugger all that year! Edited April 15, 2020 by Shrub 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted April 15, 2020 Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 4 hours ago, norbold said: Fancy you and Chunky both missing racing at the best track ever! Sorry I'm not as old as you! Actually, I was born in 1962, so there was a small chance... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BL65 Posted April 15, 2020 Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 1 hour ago, norbold said: What with Nordin and Hedge, it was all down to Wimbledon then!!! 2 hours ago, E I Addio said: Another reason was Trevor Hedge. He was proving a match winner for Wimbledon going off scratch at reserve. I remember an article in SS I think by Eric Linden analysing his performance as an indictment of the handicap system. Except that (a) Trevor Hedge didn't join Wimbledon until 1965, he was still at Norwich in 1964 (b) Trevor didn't ride at reserve in 1964 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted April 15, 2020 Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 1 hour ago, BL65 said: Except that (a) Trevor Hedge didn't join Wimbledon until 1965, he was still at Norwich in 1964 (b) Trevor didn't ride at reserve in 1964 Maybe the years have telescoped in my mind. Perhaps ‘63 when Hedge was a on loan at Hackney, perhaps Hedge guesting, but definitely an article in SS using Hedge as an example of flaws in the handicap system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted April 15, 2020 Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Shrub said: Thought long and hard about this. I was lucky enough to watch the great Ipswich sides of the '70's and had a Dad who took me to lots of away meetings. The 1975-76 seasons, which Ipswich won with a team of home grown, local riders, all born within 20 miles of the stadium plus Billy Sanders who'd only ridden for the Witches since he was 16, were great. Never properly recognised for the achievement it was and also proved you can compete and be successful without using guests. Saw every Ipswich home and away in '81. 82, 84 and 98, seeing the Cowboy develop in 81 was fantastic, the 84 league and cup double a pleasant surprise and the 98 super team was a little dull to watch at home but superb away. But I'm not picking any of them. I'm going for 1990, another season I was fortunate enough to watch every match home and away . After John Berry left we had three disastrous, embarrassing seasons under the ownership of the charlatan Chris Shears. When he was finally kicked out we dropped down to the National League and it was like a breath of fresh air. The two seasons, 1989 and 90 provided great speedway, the Northern tours and were immense fun, with 1990 just shading '89 for entertainment. A young exciting side lead by for me the most entertaining (and brave to the point of lunacy!) rider to ever wear the Witch - Moggo. Great days, but we actually won bugger all that year! After doing the double in '88 it was obvious Hackney were going to lose a couple of riders to our new 'sister track.' It was no surprise to see Loram and Louis go but we were gutted to lose Moggo, because as you say he was entertainment personified! Remember the fantastic match between the clubs at Foxhall in 1990 when you beat us by a point? What a final heat with Whittaker, Moggo, Louis and Galvin! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrub Posted April 15, 2020 Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 8 minutes ago, Terry said: After doing the double in '88 it was obvious Hackney were going to lose a couple of riders to our new 'sister track.' It was no surprise to see Loram and Louis go but we were gutted to lose Moggo, because as you say he was entertainment personified! Remember the fantastic match between the clubs at Foxhall in 1990 when you beat us by a point? What a final heat with Whittaker, Moggo, Louis and Galvin! I do! Whittaker somehow holding off every attempt by Moggo with Louis just pipping Galvin for third. I also remember the return match later in the season on a somewhat over watered track! Back to Moggo, the number of times you were left saying 'How the f--- did he do that?' 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBBATH Posted April 15, 2020 Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 On 4/14/2020 at 3:24 AM, norbold said: Out of interest, I thought I would look up to see who were the best PL riders and how they did against former NL riders. In the 1965 league averages top of the list of former PL riders was Charlie Monk, who was 6th overall with 10.28. Then: Eric Boocock (13th with 9.43); George Hunter (15th with 9.35); Ivor Brown (16th with 9.27); Bill Andrew (19th with 9.07); Dave Younghusband (20th with 9.06) Those were the top six and the only former PL riders with a 9+ average. Incidentally, our old friend from another thread, Nigel Boocock, was top of the averages, the only rider with an 11+ average. Cheers Norman, not too shabby performance by guys who many NL fans thought would find it tough to hack in the big league- I think Pete Jarman was pretty good that year and he must have been close to 9 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted April 15, 2020 Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 20 minutes ago, Shrub said: I do! Whittaker somehow holding off every attempt by Moggo with Louis just pipping Galvin for third. I also remember the return match later in the season on a somewhat over watered track! Back to Moggo, the number of times you were left saying 'How the f--- did he do that?' I knew Moggo pretty well, and used to follow him quite a bit. Great guy, and fantastic rider, but it didn't matter where I went to see him, he would usually end up through the fence at some point during the meeting! One of the best was at Foxhall in '87, when he demolished several sections of fence on the home straight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted April 15, 2020 Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 8 minutes ago, BOBBATH said: Cheers Norman, not too shabby performance by guys who many NL fans thought would find it tough to hack in the big league- I think Pete Jarman was pretty good that year and he must have been close to 9 as well. According to Speedway History (proboards) he averaged 8.7 in 1965. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBBATH Posted April 15, 2020 Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 On 4/14/2020 at 3:49 AM, E I Addio said: In fairness , I think at least Monk , Boocock and Hunter were on the way up and were hardly typical of the average PL rider. If there had been no combination of leagues they would likely have made the jump from PL to NL anyway, Similarly there were Malcolm Simmons Norman Hunter and Ray Wilson who were making tremendous progress in the course of the season. It was without doubt the start of a golden era for British Speedway. Hi El Addio not too sure about that. From memory the other guys who left PL for NL when the former turned black were Stan Stevens, Trevor Hedge maybe Bob Dugard. Have to say Norman Hunter was the only "star" who switched , I think Simmo was maybe a middle order guy. The other "stars " stuck with the PL. Interested that Hackney lost 3 riders to the NL Not sure what averages Norman Hunter, Malcolm Simmons and Trevor Hedge had in the 1964 NL maybe you know Norbold?? Not sure whether George Hunter, Eric Boocock and Charlie Monk would have made the jump if the leagues remained separate with the same balance of tracks- they were making better money in the Prov. league than they would in the NL with more tracks, plus George H. and Eric B. being able to ride relatively close to home. Interesting question whether Mauger would have moved to NL-he didn't in 1964 and he was a guy who had a good sense of his own value I reckon more guys would have made the jump the other way- Bob Andrews, Ronnie Genz etc. I agree that 1965 was the start of a golden era of British speedway, a wonderful year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBBATH Posted April 15, 2020 Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 1 minute ago, chunky said: According to Speedway History (proboards) he averaged 8.7 in 1965. Thanks Steve , my memory hasn't totally faded then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted April 15, 2020 Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 7 minutes ago, chunky said: According to Speedway History (proboards) he averaged 8.7 in 1965. And according to Peter Oakes History of British League it was 8.867! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrub Posted April 15, 2020 Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 6 minutes ago, chunky said: I knew Moggo pretty well, and used to follow him quite a bit. Great guy, and fantastic rider, but it didn't matter where I went to see him, he would usually end up through the fence at some point during the meeting! One of the best was at Foxhall in '87, when he demolished several sections of fence on the home straight... We didn't christen him Captain Crash for nothing! Should of had shares in the company that made the Foxhall fence panels when Moggo was about. You're right, there was usually at least one Fx on his scorechart every meeting. But he just got up for more. All part of the legend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted April 15, 2020 Report Share Posted April 15, 2020 9 hours ago, falcace said: Yep same as. Great year. The Penhall/Carter clash was also a big deal (still is!). Had my first ventures to some away tracks too...the Shay, Owlerton and Brandon. Larry Ross was brilliant that year. I think his away average was better than PC and Mort, which speaks volumes of his importance that year. Again, our experience so similar. My first away trip was Brandon in 81, from 82 I dont think we missed an Aces meeting at the Shay, and caught most of their meetings at Brandon. Didn't make Owlerton til 84, made the trek to Dudley Wood in 83 only for the meeting to be washed out... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted April 16, 2020 Report Share Posted April 16, 2020 2 hours ago, norbold said: And according to Peter Oakes History of British League it was 8.867! Unfortunately, my copy is still in storage, so I can't check. Of course, speedway is prone to these issues as you never know whether league and KOC are counted in the averages, or just league... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeW Posted April 16, 2020 Report Share Posted April 16, 2020 7 hours ago, norbold said: And according to Peter Oakes History of British League it was 8.867! The averages for that publication for 1965 only are incorrect as they assume each rider had four rides in every meeting they rode in during the season. Tactical sub rides for example are ignored although points scored in them are included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted April 16, 2020 Report Share Posted April 16, 2020 Just now, JoeW said: The averages for that publication for 1965 only are incorrect as they assume each rider had four rides in every meeting they rode in during the season. Tactical sub rides for example are ignored although points scored in them are included. Aren't averages always worked out that way? Or are you saying that TS rides were not included in the number of rides but the points are still included in the total, thus giving a falsely high average? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeW Posted April 16, 2020 Report Share Posted April 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Grachan said: Aren't averages always worked out that way? Or are you saying that TS rides were not included in the number of rides but the points are still included in the total, thus giving a falsely high average? The latter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted April 16, 2020 Report Share Posted April 16, 2020 Just now, JoeW said: The latter Thanks for clarifying. It did read that way, but I wasn't sure if that was what you meant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted April 16, 2020 Report Share Posted April 16, 2020 8 hours ago, BOBBATH said: Hi El Addio not too sure about that. From memory the other guys who left PL for NL when the former turned black were Stan Stevens, Trevor Hedge maybe Bob Dugard. Have to say Norman Hunter was the only "star" who switched , I think Simmo was maybe a middle order guy. The other "stars " stuck with the PL. Interested that Hackney lost 3 riders to the NL Not sure what averages Norman Hunter, Malcolm Simmons and Trevor Hedge had in the 1964 NL maybe you know Norbold?? Norman Hunter's 1964 average was 5.89; Malcolm Simmons was 4.2. These figures are according to West Ham's last programme of the season. In his programme notes for the meeting, Dave Lanning said, "Norman Hunter is the lad who didn't quite make the big time...." Of course in the following year, in 1965, he did make it. While Malcolm Simons became an overnight star on 14 August 1965 when he suddenly, in one match, moved from a reasonable second string to a top rider in what I still consider to be the best and most exciting match I have ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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