Sidney the robin Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 Boring times for all of us at the moment and to be honest i cannot see any speedway happening in 2020.So i have been cracking on with my speedway memorabilia and i have just finished completing a collection of Crump ( jnr) Crump (snr) Adams, Sanders, Young. What order would you place these legends in a very difficult call it would be interesting to hear people's views.Gustix, maybe?? could of been the one of a few on here who saw Young ride. My top five order would be 1.Crump ( jnr) 2.Young 3.Crump (snr) 4.Adams 5.Sanders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 (edited) I would swap Crump snr and Adams, but apart from that agree Interesting would be to put Doyle in the mix and see where he would be placed or even Holder Edited March 29, 2020 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 Difficult one Sid...the ones you have listed (although I never saw Young ride) I would place as Crump (Jnr), Young, Sanders, Crump (Snr) and Adams...but would probably change that tomorrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 Hmm...difficult one that. Especially deciding between Crump Jnr and Youngie for no. 1. Apart from Fundin, Crump Jnr is the only rider to finish on the podium in ten successive seasons which should make him the no.1. However, I would say that at no time was he clearly the best rider in the world in the same way that Young was. Young dominated the early 1950s in the same way as say Rickardsson did in the 2000s. To offset that however, Youngie was not in or around the elite for as long as Crumpie. My instinct would be that if we are looking at Young just in the first three or four years of the 1950s, then he would be top. If over their whole career, then Crump Jnr. So, having weighed all that up, I would go for 1. Crump Jnr 2. Young 3. Adams 4. Sanders 5. Crump Snr. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted March 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 38 minutes ago, steve roberts said: Difficult one Sid...the ones you have listed (although I never saw Young ride) I would place as Crump (Jnr), Young, Sanders, Crump (Snr) and Adams...but would probably change that tomorrow! I saw both Crump (snr) and Adams for all there Robins career and it really is a close one for me Phil just edges it.I just think if Phil had put that Streety conversation away for one night he might have been World Champion.For me outside Mauger, Olsen,Michanek,Collins, from 1970 until 1979 T.Jansson, P.Crump, Autrey,Jessup , Lee were the only riders who might of gatecrashed that top four and become champion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 5 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said: I saw both Crump (snr) and Adams for all there Robins career and it really is a close one for me Phil just edges it.I just think if Phil had put that Streety conversation away for one night he might have been World Champion.For me outside Mauger, Olsen,Michanek,Collins, from 1970 until 1979 T.Jansson, P.Crump, Autrey,Jessup , Lee were the only riders who might of gatecrashed that top four and become champion. You aren’t talking about rider skills there as much as a technical advantage. And you could say that about any top- ish rider. If they on the night had a major advantage over their opponents they might have won a title....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted March 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 Just now, iris123 said: You aren’t talking about rider skills there as much as a technical advantage. And you could say that about any top- ish rider. If they on the night had a major advantage over their opponents they might have won a title....... Who do you think was capable of toppling that top four from 1970/79 Iris. ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 1 minute ago, Sidney the robin said: Who do you think was capable of toppling that top four from 1970/79 Iris. ??? Certainly if Müller came out on a street conversion when nobody else had one he could have won.He wasn’t miles away when they were all on roughly the same bikes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted March 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 13 minutes ago, iris123 said: Certainly if Müller came out on a street conversion when nobody else had one he could have won.He wasn’t miles away when they were all on roughly the same bikes Would Muller even on a monster of an engine ever of won a final outside of Germany i have my doubts.In 1983 you had to be there to witness how dominant he was on the day he destroyed a very good line up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 32 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said: Would Muller even on a monster of an engine ever of won a final outside of Germany i have my doubts.In 1983 you had to be there to witness how dominant he was on the day he destroyed a very good line up. I was there and will never forget it for many reasons! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted March 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 2 hours ago, steve roberts said: I was there and will never forget it for many reasons! The rain !!!! it was p.s ...g down when we got there at 6am in the morning.I can remember seeing locals eating raw fish with the heads still on grose.The track i quite liked but it was not a great meeting to watch one moment stuck in my mind from that meeting was that Sanders should of been mega tough on Muller in there meeting he wasn't the rest is history. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 19 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said: The rain !!!! it was p.s ...g down when we got there at 6am in the morning.I can remember seeing locals eating raw fish with the heads still on grose.The track i quite liked but it was not a great meeting to watch one moment stuck in my mind from that meeting was that Sanders should of been mega tough on Muller in there meeting he wasn't the rest is history. Billy was both gutted and angry about that final, along with other riders in the field. Did someone mention a 'monster engine' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted March 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 8 minutes ago, Blupanther said: Billy was both gutted and angry about that final, along with other riders in the field. Did someone mention a 'monster engine' Remember Carter refering that Muller was on an illegal machine, how many laps did Egon get to do at Norden before the final. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 Having a look at 1977 i'd say if Finn Thomsen came out on a Street conversion on WF night and nobody else had one he could have taken the title. Only rider to beat Mauger...he could well have beaten all the others. Have to say that Müller fell in one heat of both 76 and 77 finals, so no matter what bike he was on he fell.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted March 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, iris123 said: Having a look at 1977 i'd say if Finn Thomsen came out on a Street conversion on WF night and nobody else had one he could have taken the title. Only rider to beat Mauger...he could well have beaten all the others. Have to say that Müller fell in one heat of both 76 and 77 finals, so no matter what bike he was on he fell.... 1 hour ago, iris123 said: Having a look at 1977 i'd say if Finn Thomsen came out on a Street conversion on WF night and nobody else had one he could have taken the title. Only rider to beat Mauger...he could well have beaten all the others. Have to say that Müller fell in one heat of both 76 and 77 finals, so no matter what bike he was on he fell.... Collins if fit probably would of won that final, for me Lee in 77/ 79/83 could of won another three world titles. Edited March 29, 2020 by Sidney the robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 34 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said: Collins if fit probably would of won that final, for me Lee in 77/ 79/83 could of won another three world titles. Peter Collins could quite easily have won three titles on the trot if some idiot hadn't let loose with the hose pipe in 1975 and his cruel injury picked up just prior to the 1977 Final. We would now be contemplating Peter being perhaps England's greatest rider? Funny how fate can turn a cruel hand! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 39 minutes ago, steve roberts said: Peter Collins could quite easily have won three titles on the trot if some idiot hadn't let loose with the hose pipe in 1975 and his cruel injury picked up just prior to the 1977 Final. We would now be contemplating Peter being perhaps England's greatest rider? Funny how fate can turn a cruel hand! Don't forget the "sugar-in-the-tank" episode at the 78 British Final... That could have been four on the bounce. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, chunky said: Don't forget the "sugar-in-the-tank" episode at the 78 British Final... That could have been four on the bounce. Attended said meeting and witnessed White City's Gordon Kennett sneak thru' to his one and only World Final and going on and very nearly winning it (which I missed due to a pre-booked holiday to Jersey as my brother keeps reminding me!!) Edited March 29, 2020 by steve roberts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Sidney the robin said: Collins if fit probably would of won that final, for me Lee in 77/ 79/83 could of won another three world titles. Sure. But you are forgetting the assumption. You said if Crump snr had wheeled out the Street conversion at the world final he might well have won. I am just saying if any of those just out of the top wheeled out a major technical advantage they could also have won. It is a technical advantage and not the rider, who would have made the difference. Just as many assume it was Müller's fair or unfair advantages that won him the title. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 2 hours ago, steve roberts said: Peter Collins could quite easily have won three titles on the trot if some idiot hadn't let loose with the hose pipe in 1975 and his cruel injury picked up just prior to the 1977 Final. We would now be contemplating Peter being perhaps England's greatest rider? Funny how fate can turn a cruel hand! If he had won even 3 in a row i think he would be considered more or less unanimously englands greatest post war rider. As it stands id rank him below Tai and the other PC, but i know others who would still rank him top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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