arnieg Posted March 25, 2020 Report Share Posted March 25, 2020 It is a grey area. The point about the HMRC tests are that no one factor determines the outcome. Speedway riders would be one of those examples where there are half a dozen factors on each side of the argument and only a foolhardy idiot would predict with any certainty the outcome should it go to litigation. (I used to be self employed, despite 90% of my income coming from my previous employer for doing much the same things as I had previously. I remember that when the Revenue questioned my status one of the arguments I put forward in favour of self-employment was that I did NOT get an invite to the office Xmas party. And what was this job? I was training tax consultants!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siggytastic Posted March 25, 2020 Report Share Posted March 25, 2020 Not many employers let their employees go work for rival companies!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted March 25, 2020 Report Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) The "Asset System " is only observed because it suits both parties , in my limited and very much in the past experience of riders dealing with promoters it was very much everyman for himself and I always say s/way is a team sport ridden by individuals .Most riders are or were at least on pay as you ride I think it is known as the "GIG Economy " today that is why they were and I would imagine are still considered subcontractors to all intents and purpose . Edited March 25, 2020 by FAST GATER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblueboy Posted March 25, 2020 Report Share Posted March 25, 2020 7 hours ago, MattK said: How many riders are genuinely self-employed (as in the HMRC definition) rather than an employee of their own limited company? I've always assumed they operate under a limited company structure. https://www.gov.uk/employment-status/selfemployed-contractor They all are. I wouldn’t think there is one rider who is not self-employed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted March 25, 2020 Report Share Posted March 25, 2020 4 hours ago, arnieg said: (I used to be self employed, despite 90% of my income coming from my previous employer for doing much the same things as I had previously. I remember that when the Revenue questioned my status one of the arguments I put forward in favour of self-employment was that I did NOT get an invite to the office Xmas party. And what was this job? I was training tax consultants!) Presumably you and a guest had your own Christmas party up to the value of £150 each? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted March 25, 2020 Report Share Posted March 25, 2020 2 hours ago, MattK said: Presumably you and a guest had your own Christmas party up to the value of £150 each? But surely the ESC applies only to schedule E BIKs, so as a DI/II man I was outside its scope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner85 Posted March 25, 2020 Report Share Posted March 25, 2020 With the latest announcement, then 1 home and one away looks likely if indeed we get back this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehone Posted March 25, 2020 Report Share Posted March 25, 2020 i think the biggest problem the sport might face going forward is the need to work together .. i'm sure with some of the promoters working together is not necessarily in their nature 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waytogo28 Posted March 26, 2020 Report Share Posted March 26, 2020 On 3/24/2020 at 1:37 PM, barrybishop said: As to the question of if we can all survive this... I am always very positive about the future and what lays ahead but it will take an effort from everyone involved in speedway from our fans to our governing bodies to ensure that we succeed. Promoters and riders cannot do it alone... never could, but even more so after this. Keep safe, check in with your elderly relatives and if you need a chat reach out to me anytime. No need to be lonely. Step forward Barry Bishop - kneel and Arise Sir Barry. And onwards to the deserved speedway sainthood status. Please foward some DNA and I will attempt to clone 50 Promoters, who can work together to ensure the speedway racing does survive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundp Posted March 26, 2020 Report Share Posted March 26, 2020 (edited) On 3/24/2020 at 1:37 PM, barrybishop said: Hey, It is a heartbraking situation for us all and even more so for anyone who has to make considerable financial investment to bring speedway to the public in the first place.. Riders, Promoters, Management, and I am sure our govening bodies too. But all this really does not compare in the effort of our nation(s) right now to protect us all against Covid 19 and I wish you all well and keep healthy and safe. As to the question of if we can all survive this... I am always very positive about the future and what lays ahead but it will take an effort from everyone involved in speedway from our fans to our governing bodies to ensure that we succeed. Promoters and riders cannot do it alone... never could, but even more so after this. Keep safe, check in with your elderly relatives and if you need a chat reach out to me anytime. No need to be lonely. Well said Barry, thank you and you and yours stay healthy and safe.. Slightly off topic British Speedway has never needed a man to oversee the Sport for the benefit of the sport as a whole any more so than it does now, however as usual the BSPA cant see the wood for the clouds or is it the Trees ? , to my way of thinking Barry Bishop is head and shoulders above anyone on the present management committee, and would not be afraid to make decisions that would benefit the WHOLE sport not just decisions that benefit the few, he should be leading the Sport in this hour of need.. Edited March 26, 2020 by greyhoundp 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon1983 Posted March 26, 2020 Report Share Posted March 26, 2020 Might seem an off topic question, however how many British riders ride in the Premiership and how many in the championship who should be in the prem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovalman Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 Well done Sir Bazza, friendly little club nice stadium over on the island 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 On 3/26/2020 at 8:28 AM, greyhoundp said: Well said Barry, thank you and you and yours stay healthy and safe.. Slightly off topic British Speedway has never needed a man to oversee the Sport for the benefit of the sport as a whole any more so than it does now, however as usual the BSPA cant see the wood for the clouds or is it the Trees ? , to my way of thinking Barry Bishop is head and shoulders above anyone on the present management committee, and would not be afraid to make decisions that would benefit the WHOLE sport not just decisions that benefit the few, he should be leading the Sport in this hour of need.. Totally agree for me he is a breath of fresh air, he runs a good night out for everybody and the main thing is he caters for all ages.The track in itself for me is a Championship track ( minimum) decent racing and as a few days break in the summer is a decent option to say Torquay or Weymouth.Would Mr Bishop take on more responsibility??? i doubt it he knows his fresh ideas and input would be difficult to push through i hope i am wrong though.It would be great if Barry, Lee Kilby, Neil Vatcher was part of a team that could push speedway in the UK a bit further forward probably wishful thinking. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon1983 Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 I think it's time british speedway in a sense looked after it's own clubs, it's own riders and it's own fans. No restrictions on when you can run your speedway night, a less is more club offering on the league front with more focus on the individual element for British Riders and Championship. There is no better time than now really to act once this is all over, it's likely a few teams will be lost but with limited riders to go around and the necessity really to run more on the days thay benefit your business in terms of crowd size etc. Then less clubs isn't a bad thing until more young british or commonwealth riders are coming through the system 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Falcon1983 said: I think it's time british speedway in a sense looked after it's own clubs, it's own riders and it's own fans. No restrictions on when you can run your speedway night, a less is more club offering on the league front with more focus on the individual element for British Riders and Championship. There is no better time than now really to act once this is all over, it's likely a few teams will be lost but with limited riders to go around and the necessity really to run more on the days thay benefit your business in terms of crowd size etc. Then less clubs isn't a bad thing until more young british or commonwealth riders are coming through the system Spot on.... The operating model simply doesn't work, as has been proved by the sports' ever diminishing following whilst it has stubbornly been continually followed, so what a gilt edged opportunity to re look at every facet of the way the sport is ran in the UK and deliver something better.. Less could really be more for British Speedway.. Less meetings maybe, but if everyone of them were credible, worth winning and tangibly mean something, then what a leap forward it could be.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chadster Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 I obviously don't know when we will come out of lockdown and speedway can resume, but unless other countries open their borders and travel restrictions are limited, then will there be enough riders in the country to stock the teams? Does anyone know how many Aussie/American riders are still based over here. Perhaps the BSPA could be devoting some thought to alternative competitions to 7 man team league meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon1983 Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 Think we should all share our thoughts on how speedway could be run in this country say next year onwards and all have an open mind opinion on each suggestion rather than falling out. Could come up with some blinding ideas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Chadster said: I obviously don't know when we will come out of lockdown and speedway can resume, but unless other countries open their borders and travel restrictions are limited, then will there be enough riders in the country to stock the teams? Does anyone know how many Aussie/American riders are still based over here. Perhaps the BSPA could be devoting some thought to alternative competitions to 7 man team league meetings. The standard would have to be dropped across the board but without overseas riders there are still enough British riders to fill every team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 12 minutes ago, Ben91 said: The standard would have to be dropped across the board but without overseas riders there are still enough British riders to fill every team. Just out of interest how many British riders are there currently ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, iris123 said: Just out of interest how many British riders are there currently ? I’m sure it wouldn’t take long to work that out if you want to do it. It would significantly water down the product as I said but teams could still be filled if the only option was to use British riders exclusively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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