Will British Speedway Survive ?

[Sidney the robin]

29 minutes ago, MattK said:

A couple of things. Firstly, the Government can't print money, the Bank of England does that. The government issues Gilts (government bonds), which the Bank of England can buy. During the last round of quantitative easing the BoE bought around a quarter of all gilts in existence. The benefit of this is we the taxpayer now no longer have to pay interest on those gilts.

 

Secondly, inflation isn't a bad thing. IN fact most people agree that a bit of controlled inflation is good, as it erodes debts relative to income. In the last decade the government has borrowed roughly £50bn every year, plus we've had £400bn of QE and yet inflation has stayed around historical norms.

I am less concerned about how the government will fund its extravagant plans and more whether help will actually get to those who need it. At the moment I am not so sure.

I think your last sentence is spot on Matt, will all the worthy get help and when??? people cannot live on fresh air.

[greyhoundp]

This whole Covid 19 situation is affecting us all in one way or another, many firms will be in a dire situation during and at the end of it all, this will undoubtably impact on sponsorship and deals already agreed and signed may not be able to be fullfilled, Jobs will still be lost despite government help, losses will therefore be even greater, I dont know where things will be at the end of this season, we can only hope that it does survive in some way..

[Falcon1983]

Let's say speedway went to the wall.

What tracks realitiscially would be available on a hire basis for some form of future racing and which tracks would be lost completely?

[The Third Man]

7 minutes ago, Falcon1983 said:

Let's say speedway went to the wall.

What tracks realitiscially would be available on a hire basis for some form of future racing and which tracks would be lost completely?

The tracks that teams rent would be available, if they survive

the tracks that are owned would still be there but the owners may have gone bust

so I suppose most of the tracks would be available, depending on people with money

[Falcon1983]

Housing developers would probably pick up the tracks people own and I guess the ones they rent too as stocks and dog racing will be in the same boat. 

 

Just hope enough survive to have some form of speedway available 

[mikebv]

26 minutes ago, Falcon1983 said:

Housing developers would probably pick up the tracks people own and I guess the ones they rent too as stocks and dog racing will be in the same boat. 

 

Just hope enough survive to have some form of speedway available 

For me that's the biggest threat..

if you own a stadium and your overall business is potentially going to the wall, or the stock market crashing has impacted you severely, then selling off the place for housing would be the 'quick cash fix' you may need...

[greyhoundp]

15 hours ago, mikebv said:

For me that's the biggest threat..

if you own a stadium and your overall business is potentially going to the wall, or the stock market crashing has impacted you severely, then selling off the place for housing would be the 'quick cash fix' you may need...

This would be the biggest worry, it all depends how deep are the pockets of Stadium owners, and how others may need to raise cash, because as you say developers are always sniffing around for prime sites and a number of Speedway Stadia could be classed as prime sites, others would be more suitable for Warehousing..

[TB1]

On 3/22/2020 at 8:53 AM, Sidney the robin said:

I think your last sentence is spot on Matt, will all the worthy get help and when??? people cannot live on fresh air.

Absolutely spot on the social and mental fallout of people possibly older folk starving or freezing to death in their own homes could have implications for many many years to come.

Edited March 23, 2020 by TB1
Spelling error

[acef]

On 3/21/2020 at 9:35 AM, Speedtiger said:

Matt. I’m a realist not a pessimist.

Ive never said speedway clubs are not eligible to apply BUT there’s a big difference in being eligible to apply and actually getting financial help. Not all clubs are limited companies. Speedway doesn’t directly employ that many people as all riders are self employed and Clubs have lots of unpaid volunteers to make the sport work so will not be judge a priority to save jobs which is the main criteria of getting help. Any loans that clubs, who are probably already in debt, may obtain will be only adding to that debt and will no doubt be personally secured by the borrowers. Clubs may have to accept strict loan terms due to desperation because at this stage clubs will have paid out large sums of money in preparation and anticipation of the season starting and much needed cash coming in which leaves them very exposed. As always the devil in all of this will be in the detail. 

 

 

It’s not just about jobs. There are many aspects to the loan and whilst I accept that speedway may well have a difficult sell, it’s also got a chance. 

I would imagine that clubs will make individual applications and some will be better placed than others. I’d also argue the state of clubs finances may not have as big an impact as you seem to think. I’m sure the loan will be to cover loss of revenue and there is no question that the sport has lost some as a result of this virus. 
 

There will be many large and well established business that will apply and be successful, and I can guarantee many will be carrying debt.
 

At the very least this is a situation that should be explored and it offers some light in what is a pretty dark place for the sport here.

Edited March 24, 2020 by acef

[Ben91]

What could save the sport is the fact that it isn’t the only sport to be halted by Covid-19. As it stands no sport is happening here at all if we remain in “lockdown.” 

If landlords still go looking for their rent that is incredibly short sighted, because it could put the tenant out of business and then ultimately they have lost a revenue stream in future. This may only happen at circuits where perhaps the landlords want Speedway out (conspiracy alert).

Speedway teams are businesses. To my knowledge not many have full time employees however, so until they host meetings they actually haven’t got a huge outlay (rent aside - which most sensible landlords would put on ice). 

The people who are likely to suffer financially are the riders who won’t be getting paid. Perhaps this is indicative however of how Speedway continues to be mutton dressed as lamb in Britain. It cannot sustain employing riders as their sole form of employment at the best of times. The stream of riders will not dry up after this however so the sport will not die.

This is an ideal time for the BSPA/SCB (or whatever acronym they want to use) to sit down, go back to basics and reshape the sport properly with the future in mind as opposed to chucking a different load of turd at the wall each winter and hoping something sticks.

[HGould]

22 minutes ago, Ben91 said:

What could save the sport is the fact that it isn’t the only sport to be halted by Covid-19. As it stands no sport is happening here at all if we remain in “lockdown.” 

If landlords still go looking for their rent that is incredibly short sighted, because it could put the tenant out of business and then ultimately they have lost a revenue stream in future. This may only happen at circuits where perhaps the landlords want Speedway out (conspiracy alert).

Speedway teams are businesses. To my knowledge not many have full time employees however, so until they host meetings they actually haven’t got a huge outlay (rent aside - which most sensible landlords would put on ice). 

The people who are likely to suffer financially are the riders who won’t be getting paid. Perhaps this is indicative however of how Speedway continues to be mutton dressed as lamb in Britain. It cannot sustain employing riders as their sole form of employment at the best of times. The stream of riders will not dry up after this however so the sport will not die.

This is an ideal time for the BSPA/SCB (or whatever acronym they want to use) to sit down, go back to basics and reshape the sport properly with the future in mind as opposed to chucking a different load of turd at the wall each winter and hoping something sticks.

I've read a few articles on the websites of a few of those Clubs we all know are a bit more progressive like Ipswich; Glasgow; Redcar; Eastbourne; IOW; where the Owners / Promoters (Facenna Brothers particularly transparent on this) have explained how the situation has affected them and what they have done/ will do. It seems a common thread from those that this could not have come at a worse time as they have forked out a lot of money already in preparation for the season.

I wish Brummies would explain a bit more and now may be the best time for every Club to actually reach out to fans and explain a bit more and to offer help if they can although the lockdown announced last night may at least for the time being stop stadiums being used as an example for community usage.

Stay in and stay safe everyone.

[mikebv]

Looking at the UK Gov guidelines the conundrum for me will be whether the riders are self employed or not..

I suppose that will flush out the asset system once and for all maybe?

With so many riders riding overseas I cant see their UK earnings being enough to cover them, even if they are regarded as employees and the clubs claim the Gov assistance to pay 80% of their salary.. 

(Another question will be thrown out as salaries are often earned in many instances on performance rather than a basic so maybe difficult to calculate?)..

Are Poland and Swedens Govts doing the same and protecting a large amount of salaries??

You would think that for many riders it would be vital for them to do so? 

That is obviously if they are regarded as 'employees' and not 'self employed'

[MattK]

1 hour ago, mikebv said:

Looking at the UK Gov guidelines the conundrum for me will be whether the riders are self employed or not..

I suppose that will flush out the asset system once and for all maybe?

With so many riders riding overseas I cant see their UK earnings being enough to cover them, even if they are regarded as employees and the clubs claim the Gov assistance to pay 80% of their salary.. 

(Another question will be thrown out as salaries are often earned in many instances on performance rather than a basic so maybe difficult to calculate?)..

Are Poland and Swedens Govts doing the same and protecting a large amount of salaries??

You would think that for many riders it would be vital for them to do so? 

That is obviously if they are regarded as 'employees' and not 'self employed'

There are two things here. Firstly, riders clearly are self-employed at the moment. Therefore they will not be eligible for the existing Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme announced by the Govt last week. Help for the self-employed is on the cards, but yet to be presented.

However, going forwards (it was supposed to come into effect on 5 April, but has been deferred for a year) the end client, in this case the clubs, will have to determine the employment status of riders and clubs are liable for unpaid taxes if the employment status is incorrectly determined. HMRC have a tool to determine this here.

If you look at the tool, riders very clearly should be employees. They cannot substitute, they have to work as and when their end client specifies, they have to work from the location of their client, they even have to wear the clients uniform. There was a recent court case brought by HMRC against Eamonn Holmes, which he lost, as he claimed he was not an employee when he clearly should have been.

[barrybishop]

5 hours ago, HGould said:

I've read a few articles on the websites of a few of those Clubs we all know are a bit more progressive like Ipswich; Glasgow; Redcar; Eastbourne; IOW; where the Owners / Promoters (Facenna Brothers particularly transparent on this) have explained how the situation has affected them and what they have done/ will do. It seems a common thread from those that this could not have come at a worse time as they have forked out a lot of money already in preparation for the season.

I wish Brummies would explain a bit more and now may be the best time for every Club to actually reach out to fans and explain a bit more and to offer help if they can although the lockdown announced last night may at least for the time being stop stadiums being used as an example for community usage.

Stay in and stay safe everyone.

Hey,

The challenges for a club such as ours are many - for example we have already spent for 40 AIr fence banners, plus A frame and trackside banners, we have invested in new media equipment, track equipment, we have undertaken Ferry TV and Newpapers marketing campaigns (although these are suspended), and there are many other expenses associated with the season starting insurances, pbs, machinery hire contracts and more... its pretty tricky right now.

Luckily, we havent processed any season tickets and not all sponsorship agreements, but the worry is that if our sponsors pull out or reduce their sponsorship it could provide a much greater challenge moving forward for the sustainability of the club (as you know speedway is not my main work). I am sure that our club is not alone when I say that we have already had contact from sponsors raising such questions about the seaon ahead and what's happening and how that might reflect their sponsorship contribution. Nothing said in a bad way... just enquiring because for sure, they will also be hurting too and worried about their bottom line. It is a heartbraking situation for us all and even more so for anyone who has to make considerable financial investment to bring speedway to the public in the first place.. Riders, Promoters, Management, and I am sure our govening bodies too.

But all this really does not compare in the effort of our nation(s) right now to protect us all against Covid 19 and I wish you all well and keep healthy and safe.

As to the question of if we can all survive this... I am always very positive about the future and what lays ahead but it will take an effort from everyone involved in speedway from our fans to our governing bodies to ensure that we succeed. Promoters and riders cannot do it alone... never could, but even more so after this.

Keep safe, check in with your elderly relatives and if you need a chat reach out to me anytime. No need to be lonely.

[Crump99]

On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2020 at 7:27 AM, waytogo28 said:

And Boris's bold statement of " We will send it packing in 12 weeks" will be yet another foolish utterance and words he will later choke on. The way he has led the handling of the Covid19 crisis, marks the end of his Premiership.

Most seem to think that he's doing a good job and so do I tbh in uncharted waters. Trying not to be too draconian and relying on individuals to be sensible, but we're in the "I'll do what I want until forcibly stopped" era, and much like Panthers alleged Blue Badge policy, everyone pays due to those who will not (some, but not all by any means, cannot with good reason in unprecedented tough and worrying times) play ball.

According to the BBC: Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said he believes the UK can "turn the tide" against the outbreak within the next 12 weeks and the country can "send coronavirus packing".

That's he believes that we can turn the tide in 12 weeks - all that really requires is to slow down the infection and make some progress on dealing with it. He's not saying anything more than that IMO and it assumes that people will do as they are told which seems unlikely.

I'd lockdown totally London for starters as that's the worst place but I think that he said that he'll not do that which is a bit more of an own goal.

[martinmauger]

Think Boris measure were brought in earlier than planned partly as reaction to the idiots behaving like lemmings / locusts who rushed to the seaside and gleefully queued up for fish & chips & ice cream.  Still, good to see Hull City Council workers are out and about today cutting the grass, 'essential services' obviously must continune in these difficult times .  Stay clean & safe everyone...

Edited March 24, 2020 by martinmauger
spelling

[Crump99]

9 minutes ago, martinmauger said:

Think Boris measure were brought in earlier than planned partly as reaction to the idiots behaving like lemmings / locusts who rushed to the seaside and gleefully queued up for fish & chips & ice cream.  Still, good to see Hull City Council workers are out and about today cutting the grass, 'essential services' obviously must continune in these difficult times .  Stay clean & safe everyone...

I took the dog out for 30mins for my outside exercise allocation and was looking at the grass round here thinking that it'll be like a forest before they get to it again, so hopefully PCC send the mowers round.

[theblueboy]

11 hours ago, MattK said:

There are two things here. Firstly, riders clearly are self-employed at the moment. Therefore they will not be eligible for the existing Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme announced by the Govt last week. Help for the self-employed is on the cards, but yet to be presented.

However, going forwards (it was supposed to come into effect on 5 April, but has been deferred for a year) the end client, in this case the clubs, will have to determine the employment status of riders and clubs are liable for unpaid taxes if the employment status is incorrectly determined. HMRC have a tool to determine this here.

If you look at the tool, riders very clearly should be employees. They cannot substitute, they have to work as and when their end client specifies, they have to work from the location of their client, they even have to wear the clients uniform. There was a recent court case brought by HMRC against Eamonn Holmes, which he lost, as he claimed he was not an employee when he clearly should have been.

Incorrect. You have shown a number of indicators but the riders make a massive investment in to their bikes etc. It is therefore possible for a rider to make a loss on the season. Riders are free to choose who to ride for e.g how many riders have chosen Polish speedway over British speedway. I’m not saying it’s morally correct but they can prioritise their work to maximise their income. 
 

The tool, CEST, should be completed in cases of status, as you say, to determine whether the individual should be classed within self-employment or an employee but it is only an indicator. 
 

The issue you refer to that has been delayed until April 2021 is IR35 and relates to Personal Service Companies, not self-employment. 

 

Edited March 24, 2020 by theblueboy
Spelling

[old bob at herne bay]

The blue boy is correct. Self employed. Riders are free to negotiate contracts to ride for whoever they wish .... their “businesses” own their assets ( bikes) . 

[MattK]

5 hours ago, theblueboy said:

The issue you refer to that has been delayed until April 2021 is IR35 and relates to Personal Service Companies, not self-employment. 

 

How many riders are genuinely self-employed (as in the HMRC definition) rather than an employee of their own limited company?

I've always assumed they operate under a limited company structure.