Will British Speedway Survive ?

[Spl77]

8 hours ago, BWitcher said:

You can abuse all you like. Just because you are unable to accept the truth is not my issue.

I absolutely 100% guarantee you know plenty of people who will have influenza/pneumonia on their death certificate. They most likely had other conditions that you would say they died of, but very often when folk are vulnerable, it's a virus they catch that sadly ends things for them. You don't say they died from the flu though, you say whatever the main condition was that they had. That isn't the case now. Every death where they had covid-19 is labelled as that.. even if they had cancer, leukaemia... or heart failure for example in the case of Eddie Large.

THERE lies the difference.

I bet you say Freddie Mercury died from Aids don't you? He had aids, but it was the flu, which developed into pneumonia that finished him off. If he was around now and caught covid-19, it would be reported he died from that. 

I'm not going to debate your alleged stories, perhaps they are true, perhaps not., I am debating reality. And that reality is.. absolute 100% proven by official government records, is that up till March 27th of this year there were a total of 28398 deaths with influenza/pneumonia on the death certificate. 

If the truth pisses you off, so be it.

It's beyond me why you are so worked up about it.

Tell me the reason that you don't want to accept the facts..... And I will gladly pass it on to my wife and her fellow NHS colleagues..... In the meantime enjoy all the conspiracy theory out there 

[cityrebel]

9 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

Both the  brothers were classy, i preferred Mr Max, but PK was  some rider really skilful probably the better rider .Pk was capable but can always remember that Max at his best could beat Leigh Adams at the Abbey not many could do that.

I was fortunate to see PK on a regular basis at Lakeside in his latter years. It was a dump, but i really miss the old place.

[BWitcher]

2 hours ago, Spl77 said:

Tell me the reason that you don't want to accept the facts..... And I will gladly pass it on to my wife and her fellow NHS colleagues..... In the meantime enjoy all the conspiracy theory out there 

What are you wittering on about now?

You are the one not accepting facts and fabricating stories.

There is no conspiracy story, that's you trying to deflect away from you making yourself look foolish.

Again, the evidence is right here, scroll down to Section 3 and all deaths this year are recorded, broken down by All deaths, and those with flu/pneumonia and those with covid-19 on a week by week basis.:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending27march2020

It even actually states:

In Week 13, 18.8% of all deaths mentioned “Influenza or Pneumonia”, COVID-19, or both. In comparison, for the five-year average, 19.6% of deaths mentioned “Influenza and Pneumonia”. “Influenza and Pneumonia” has been included for comparison, as a well-understood cause of death involving respiratory infection that is likely to have somewhat similar risk factors to COVID-19.

If you have an issue take it up with those responsible for compiling death certificates.

Does it mean Covid-19 isn't a serious problem? No it doesn't. It simply provides a comparison and some context.

[BWitcher]

8 hours ago, chunky said:

My mum died when she was 63, and had been suffering from cancer of the aesophagus. One of the causes of death was chronic obstructive airway disease. Influenza is a major cause of excess morbidity in people with chronic obstructive airway disease.

My dad died when he was 64. He had been suffering from myasthenia gravis, and multiple myeloma. Then they discovered an inoperable tumour in his aesophagus. One of the main causes of death was pneumonia. In fact, I received a call at 6.30am on the Friday morning, informing me that he had pneumonia, and that he wouldn't last the weekend. Which he didn't.

My grandmother, who died at 93, had two causes of death listed; old age, and pneumonia.

So yes, you are correct. 

 

2 hours ago, Spl77 said:

Tell me the reason that you don't want to accept the facts..... And I will gladly pass it on to my wife and her fellow NHS colleagues..... In the meantime enjoy all the conspiracy theory out there 

Finally, read the above post and actually learn instead of disrespecting all those whose death was brought on by flu/pneumonia, or was the death of Chunky's parents and grandmother a 'conspiracy'.

Viruses kill those who don't have the immune system to fight them. Covid-19 is bad because it's a new one to add to the list, which is big enough already.

Edited April 10, 2020 by BWitcher

[BWitcher]

2 hours ago, steve roberts said:

I remember Morten riding for Oxford and one could see he had potential (although he sometimes had trouble negotiating the bends at Cowley) but he was plagued with injuries after being forced to move from Oxford (due to them losing BL status) and eventually disappeared from the scene which I thought was a great shame.

Somewhat similar to Daniel Andersson who was around a few years later.

[BWitcher]

Yep Morten Andersson, not Morgan!

Thanks guys.

[DC2]

On 4/8/2020 at 10:17 PM, falcace said:

I don't know why you persist with this comparison of flu and covid 19. It's completely invalid. To state the bleeding obvious, the confirmed cases and deaths of covid 19 would be vastly increased were the drastic restrictions not in place.  Listen to the experts. Jeez. 

 

On 4/8/2020 at 11:54 PM, Wee Eck said:

Can I assume you are talking about annual global deaths? The World Health Organisation estimates annual deaths from influenza as being between 290,000 and 650,000 so upwards of 800 a day.  

 

On 4/8/2020 at 11:58 PM, Swindonseptet said:

I seldom post but always read, this is the 4th thread you have joined talking up your inane flu theory, you change your source on a whim to suit your next argument.

 

 

On 4/9/2020 at 7:04 AM, Spl77 said:

I think the fact that covid 19 has a death rate of between 6 and 10% make it far worse that flu which runs at approximately 0.1%. I'm genuinely shocked at the amount of downright prats who still insist on comparing it to flu.... Wake up! 

 

Normally I’m no fan of BWitcher’s heavy handed debating technique but I’m amazed that he is being as patient with you lot as he is.

The comparison with flu is perfectly valid.

They’re both contagious viral infections that kill thousands across the world.

Flu kills 290,000 to 650,000, while Covid has so far killed 100,000. And that’s despite a vaccine existing for flu! If as with Covid there were no vaccine would flu kill 6.5 million or 66 million?

Next, spl77, the death rate.

You don’t get it by comparing deaths with closed cases, or even with all confirmed cases; you have to compare it with the total number of infected people (which most experts think is at least 10 times the number of confirmed cases). That’s why the experts think the Covid death rate is no more than 1%, despite it currently appearing to be 5% to 10% when calculated against confirmed cases in some countries.

[BWitcher]

As also explained on the other thread.. flu is not the killer by itself, although it does account for the deaths listed by DC2 above.

The biggest issue is, flu can develop into pneumonia.

In 2017 2.6 million.. thats MILLION people died from pneumonia worldwide. 800,000 of those where CHILDREN aged under 9. One THIRD of those cases developed from FLU. So you can add onto the figures solely attributed to flu a further 850,000 or so that develop into pneumonia.

Now how does this fit into Covid-19?

It's reported that in almost ALL serious cases of Covid-19, it has caused pneumonia.. (Sound familiar?). However... when they die, it's not reported as pneumonia but as Covid-19.. or 'complications from Covid-19'.

The reality is, with both flu and Covid-19 in the overwhelming majority of cases you get over it fine... it's when they develop into pneumonia you have the problem.

The problem is that Covid-19 cases developing into pneumonia are on TOP of the normal flu cases developing into pneumonia... which of course can contribute to overloading the health systems.

 

[The Third Man]

4 hours ago, Spl77 said:

Tell me the reason that you don't want to accept the facts..... And I will gladly pass it on to my wife and her fellow NHS colleagues..... In the meantime enjoy all the conspiracy theory out there 

I have now given up trying to discuss anything with him / her

Facts don't matter just whatever agenda they want to put forward 

[BWitcher]

8 minutes ago, The Third Man said:

I have now given up trying to discuss anything with him / her

Facts don't matter just whatever agenda they want to put forward 

You've been given the facts and their official source. 

"My wife says" is not a fact. 

The Office of National Statistics is fact.

It's time you grew up.

Edited April 10, 2020 by BWitcher

[HGould]

1 hour ago, DC2 said:

 

 

 

 

Normally I’m no fan of BWitcher’s heavy handed debating technique but I’m amazed that he is being as patient with you lot as he is.

The comparison with flu is perfectly valid.

They’re both contagious viral infections that kill thousands across the world.

Flu kills 290,000 to 650,000, while Covid has so far killed 100,000. And that’s despite a vaccine existing for flu! If as with Covid there were no vaccine would flu kill 6.5 million or 66 million?

Next, spl77, the death rate.

You don’t get it by comparing deaths with closed cases, or even with all confirmed cases; you have to compare it with the total number of infected people (which most experts think is at least 10 times the number of confirmed cases). That’s why the experts think the Covid death rate is no more than 1%, despite it currently appearing to be 5% to 10% when calculated against confirmed cases in some countries.

Totally agree with DC2.

Can't we all accept that Covid-19 is a variant of Flu - IT IS and that's irrefutable.

Can't we all accept that if normal flu was reported in the same way as Covid-19 there would be far more incidences of normal flu reported.

Can't we all accept though that it's a particularly virulent strain for those that develop pneumonia (or similar complications) and that death rates amongst that small percentage are a lot higher than other flu strains but that as Covid 19 has global attention and been reported differently it is clearly a bigger danger to susceptible groups.

Can we all accept that 95% of the population could have it and either not know or have very minor short term symptoms but that 5% could develop worse symptoms of which a yes undetermined but significant number could die a very painful death with little than can currently be done to save them.

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by HGould
spelling

[BWitcher]

2 minutes ago, HGould said:

Totally agree with DC2.

Can't we all accept that Covid-19 is a variant of Flu - IT IS and that's irrefutable.

Can't we all accept that if normal flu was reported in the same way as Covid-19 there would be far more incidences of normal flu reported.

Can't we all accept though that it's a particularly virulent strain for those that develop pneumonia (or similar complications) and that death rates amongst that small percentage are a lot higher than other flu strains but that as Covid 19 has global attention and been reported differently it is clearly a bigger danger to susceptible groups.

Can we all accept that 95% of the population could have it and either not know or have very minor short term symptoms but that 5% could develop worse symptoms of which a yes undetermined but significant number could die a very painful death with little than can currently be done to save them.

 

Excellent post. Not complicated is it!

[DC2]

3 hours ago, HGould said:

Totally agree with DC2.

Can't we all accept that Covid-19 is a variant of Flu - IT IS and that's irrefutable.

Can't we all accept that if normal flu was reported in the same way as Covid-19 there would be far more incidences of normal flu reported.

Can't we all accept though that it's a particularly virulent strain for those that develop pneumonia (or similar complications) and that death rates amongst that small percentage are a lot higher than other flu strains but that as Covid 19 has global attention and been reported differently it is clearly a bigger danger to susceptible groups.

Can we all accept that 95% of the population could have it and either not know or have very minor short term symptoms but that 5% could develop worse symptoms of which a yes undetermined but significant number could die a very painful death with little than can currently be done to save them.

 

 

I can accept all of that except “95% of the population could have it”, because 75% of our tests have been negative.

Less than 1% infected in Austria:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/10/less-than-1-of-austria-infected-with-coronavirus-new-study-shows

Edited April 10, 2020 by DC2

[Speedtiger]

The big issue is when the Covid19 infection rate significantly drops off and the government look to easing the lockdown, which is clearly still weeks if not months away, allowing sports to resume will be very low on the agenda as the country’s health experts will not want large gatherings of people closely grouped together for fear of a second outbreak. Ok speedway only attracts a very small number of supporters but I believe social distancing and limits on crowds will be with us, in some form, for a considerable time to come.

[DC2]

2 hours ago, Speedtiger said:

The big issue is when the Covid19 infection rate significantly drops off and the government look to easing the lockdown, which is clearly still weeks if not months away, allowing sports to resume will be very low on the agenda as the country’s health experts will not want large gatherings of people closely grouped together for fear of a second outbreak. Ok speedway only attracts a very small number of supporters but I believe social distancing and limits on crowds will be with us, in some form, for a considerable time to come.

 

Months away?  I doubt it.

[Shrub]

I believe the reason so many people seem to trivialise 'flu is because 'A touch of the flu' is what many will tell their boss was the reason they weren't at work yesterday. Or a football manager saying this player is missing today due to a dose of flu but they're back playing a few days later. Of course in both cases they've had a cold but feel the need to pep it up a bit. A cold can be unpleasant but is nowhere near as horrible or debilitating as a real dose of flu. Only this afternoon on the increasingly hysteria driven 5 Live a virologist when comparing influenza and Covid 19 dismissed flu as a virus that makes you feel bad for a few days but you're well after five days - clearly someone who's never had 'flu. 

Many simply won't believe that 'the trivial' little illness that they use to pull a sickie really can be a killer. It's just a spot of flu, right? 

 

 

[Technik]

As I see it at the moment the daily deaths are getting up to 1000 per day. I hope it will not go much higher.

before anything can even be talked about that level must be at least halved then we can start talking about easing back on the lockdown but that cannot be implemented until daily deaths fall below 100.

So far as a return to opening sports & entertainment arenas I feel the guidelines will be by number & it will be valued on the maximum available capacity. So if the limit is 500 persons & your capacity is 2500 you will not be allowed paying public inside your arena.

Cinemas & theatres  maybe allowed as they can limit ticket sales but major sporting events will be another issue 

[BWitcher]

18 minutes ago, Technik said:

As I see it at the moment the daily deaths are getting up to 1000 per day. I hope it will not go much higher.

before anything can even be talked about that level must be at least halved then we can start talking about easing back on the lockdown but that cannot be implemented until daily deaths fall below 100.

So far as a return to opening sports & entertainment arenas I feel the guidelines will be by number & it will be valued on the maximum available capacity. So if the limit is 500 persons & your capacity is 2500 you will not be allowed paying public inside your arena.

Cinemas & theatres  maybe allowed as they can limit ticket sales but major sporting events will be another issue 

Daily deaths from viruses are never below 100 a day. Even in summer. 

[mikebv]

7 hours ago, Shrub said:

I believe the reason so many people seem to trivialise 'flu is because 'A touch of the flu' is what many will tell their boss was the reason they weren't at work yesterday. Or a football manager saying this player is missing today due to a dose of flu but they're back playing a few days later. Of course in both cases they've had a cold but feel the need to pep it up a bit. A cold can be unpleasant but is nowhere near as horrible or debilitating as a real dose of flu. Only this afternoon on the increasingly hysteria driven 5 Live a virologist when comparing influenza and Covid 19 dismissed flu as a virus that makes you feel bad for a few days but you're well after five days - clearly someone who's never had 'flu. 

Many simply won't believe that 'the trivial' little illness that they use to pull a sickie really can be a killer. It's just a spot of flu, right? 

 

 

Spot on..

Only had 'the flu' once, around 30 years ago and I remained in bed for a week with two visits from the doctor as there was no chance of me going out to see him.. 

My then girlfriend told me when I was back on my feet that the she knew I wasnt well when she asked me what I was doing and I told her that i was "washing the pots". And the sink was empty.

She decided I wasnt quite fit to drive to work so put me to bed and given the amount of sweating and shaking also decided to phone the emergency doctor.

I lost over a stone in a weeks bed rest through sweating..

Since then, as a supermarket manager, whenever anyone calls in sick with "I have this flu that's going around so wont be in today, but I will be in tomorrow" I do laugh....

[The Doctor...]

7 hours ago, DC2 said:

 

Months away?  I doubt it.

Speaking from a London point of view - , If we're at a shopping centre, pub, restaurant or any public event by mid June i'll be astonished.

Had the locals not continually ignored guidance we might have had a chance, but no.

Not a pups chance of football resuming here before maybe July or August, let alone something like speedway outside of town.  Annoying, but reality i think.