Will British Speedway Survive ?

[Falcon1983]

When I used to run a regional MMA promotion we knew we could not get the big names domestically as they were all signed to domestic shows who had the TV deals for which there were really only two of those.

So we focused on amateur talent plus those upcoming professionals who could use us as a stepping stone for the big show.

So in terms of selling shows the fighters actually sold the tickets for commission to friends, family and fans however we still had to promote the event to the locals or casual fans who didnt have a personal connection

So we basically used the local talent and promoted them to sell the show and to make them "stars of the show" who people would recognise over time

We had the local fighter who become known as the guy fighting in the blue and white star shorts

Another guy was a polish fighter who was part of the olympic wrestling squad in the past who walked out to a polish rap performer doing his ring walk

A local young lad who had the look and the body that women die for

The local ticket seller whom sold 220 tickets to the shows that had a 1000 capacity as he was so well known if you didnt buy a ticket to watch him you'd at least recognise his face on a poster

 

We developed mini stars in our catchment area that people came to see... many loved the polish guy and people would say theyve come to watch Rafal... plus having a big local polish community... it drew people in to watch their countryman 

 

One of my amateur champions has just signed to the UFC and the guy in the star shorts has just lost a title fight in the biggest promotion in europe. The same belt that was once held by Conor McGregor 

Most have gone on to perform on the biggest platforms across Europe.

 

So with domestic speedway stars and personalities can be created through the right promotion and the special thing about speedway is the opportunity for rider and fan interaction 

[Sidney the robin]

4 minutes ago, falcace said:

"Confessions of a speedway promoter" is still an excellent read and head and shoulders the best speedway book I've ever read.  There's some far fetched arguments comparing John Louis and Tony Davey favourably with Peter Collins, which are obviously coloured by bias and possibly a grudge? But it still presents a fantastic insight of the challenges of speedway promotion.

There is one observation that is relevant to this discussion where Berry talks about the need to prioritise the casual fan and general public above the hardcore, who will come rain or shine anyway. That's bang on and something that the sport as a whole has lost sight of. 

You are also quite right Sidney to highlight that there is still talent within the sport. To tar every promoter with the same brush would be unfair.

I have no real answers Falcace have you?  i still enjoy speedway  and i am grateful at the moment ( hopefully this season?????) that i still have a track to visit.?? Darts is the sport that makes me so envious Hearn who i am no fan of has totally revamped that pub sport he has made a glorified p... up into a very enjoyable evening.I think he has managed that because he is a dictator and very focused on what he wants he has got this sport to attract young fans.The biggest two problems we have is that most of the Stadia now is old and tired and run down.And the other reason is the week meeting is not concluded early anough for young kids to stay out before there bedtime.

[FAST GATER]

Wonder how the GP's would manage if they were asked to run on Monday or Thursday instead of monopolising weekends at the peak of the season , UK could run on Friday / Saturday and Poland still on Sundays .

[mikebv]

31 minutes ago, Falcon1983 said:

When I used to run a regional MMA promotion we knew we could not get the big names domestically as they were all signed to domestic shows who had the TV deals for which there were really only two of those.

So we focused on amateur talent plus those upcoming professionals who could use us as a stepping stone for the big show.

So in terms of selling shows the fighters actually sold the tickets for commission to friends, family and fans however we still had to promote the event to the locals or casual fans who didnt have a personal connection

So we basically used the local talent and promoted them to sell the show and to make them "stars of the show" who people would recognise over time

We had the local fighter who become known as the guy fighting in the blue and white star shorts

Another guy was a polish fighter who was part of the olympic wrestling squad in the past who walked out to a polish rap performer doing his ring walk

A local young lad who had the look and the body that women die for

The local ticket seller whom sold 220 tickets to the shows that had a 1000 capacity as he was so well known if you didnt buy a ticket to watch him you'd at least recognise his face on a poster

 

We developed mini stars in our catchment area that people came to see... many loved the polish guy and people would say theyve come to watch Rafal... plus having a big local polish community... it drew people in to watch their countryman 

 

One of my amateur champions has just signed to the UFC and the guy in the star shorts has just lost a title fight in the biggest promotion in europe. The same belt that was once held by Conor McGregor 

Most have gone on to perform on the biggest platforms across Europe.

 

So with domestic speedway stars and personalities can be created through the right promotion and the special thing about speedway is the opportunity for rider and fan interaction 

Even lots of "top class" boxing matches will have an under card of several "local lads"..

The main reason being the promoters know that they will sell tickets..

Many of them will shift 250 and more and at that rate, having just four local lads on the bill will get you 1000 or more punters in. (Which even at a discount rate of 30 quid or so is still a pretty penny)..

Speedway in the UK, instead of focusing on having local lads and building their profile, seems to spend hours rearranging fixture lists to ensure a boat load of average journeyman Frenchman, Swedes, Danes, Germans, Slovaks, Italians, etc etc etc all get to race when they tell us they are available.. 

Names that will mean very little in their own towns and countries never mind locally in towns and cities in England or Scotland..

A very strange plan..

[cityrebel]

57 minutes ago, falcace said:

"Confessions of a speedway promoter" is still an excellent read and head and shoulders the best speedway book I've ever read.  There's some far fetched arguments comparing John Louis and Tony Davey favourably with Peter Collins, which are obviously coloured by bias and possibly a grudge? But it still presents a fantastic insight of the challenges of speedway promotion.

There is one observation that is relevant to this discussion where Berry talks about the need to prioritise the casual fan and general public above the hardcore, who will come rain or shine anyway. That's bang on and something that the sport as a whole has lost sight of. 

You are also quite right Sidney to highlight that there is still talent within the sport. To tar every promoter with the same brush would be unfair.

I knew John Berry well, when he was running Wimbledon. He could be a funny guy with a great sense of humour, he also had a very serious side when it came to speedway. I got on well with him, he was a pleasure to work with.

[Falcon1983]

14 minutes ago, mikebv said:

Even lots of "top class" boxing matches will have an under card of several "local lads"..

The main reason being the promoters know that they will sell tickets..

Many of them will shift 250 and more and at that rate, having just four local lads on the bill will get you 1000 or more punters in. (Which even at a discount rate of 30 quid or so is still a pretty penny)..

Speedway in the UK, instead of focusing on having local lads and building their profile, seems to spend hours rearranging fixture lists to ensure a boat load of average journeyman Frenchman, Swedes, Danes, Germans, Slovaks, Italians, etc etc etc all get to race when they tell us they are available.. 

Names that will mean very little in their own towns and countries never mind locally in towns and cities in England or Scotland..

A very strange plan..

This is why if the main event in british speedway was an individual championship for British riders all the promotion can go into this and developing stars no matter whether they end up in poland or not   then interest could then drop to local teams etc as well 

[fatface]

3 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

I have no real answers Falcace have you?  i still enjoy speedway  and i am grateful at the moment ( hopefully this season?????) that i still have a track to visit.?? Darts is the sport that makes me so envious Hearn who i am no fan of has totally revamped that pub sport he has made a glorified p... up into a very enjoyable evening.I think he has managed that because he is a dictator and very focused on what he wants he has got this sport to attract young fans.The biggest two problems we have is that most of the Stadia now is old and tired and run down.And the other reason is the week meeting is not concluded early anough for young kids to stay out before there bedtime.

I have my answer (suggestions). See previous postings. And that is to run weekend multi-sport track racing festivals including speedway in a wider offering to appeal to more families and wider casual and motorsports fans. The darts is a case in point. They targeted a young-ish lads night out crowd, got the music, the branding, the venues, the girls and lots of booze right and it's a big success.

 

3 hours ago, FAST GATER said:

Wonder how the GP's would manage if they were asked to run on Monday or Thursday instead of monopolising weekends at the peak of the season , UK could run on Friday / Saturday and Poland still on Sundays .

Ask the GPs? I think the GPs are holding the cards now with healthy crowds, sponsors and international TV coverage. Instead the weekend model should embrace and build around it. Put your event on and conclude it just prior to the GP and put it on the big screens in the bar afterwards....and hang onto your punters.

2 hours ago, mikebv said:

Even lots of "top class" boxing matches will have an under card of several "local lads"..

The main reason being the promoters know that they will sell tickets..

Many of them will shift 250 and more and at that rate, having just four local lads on the bill will get you 1000 or more punters in. (Which even at a discount rate of 30 quid or so is still a pretty penny)..

Speedway in the UK, instead of focusing on having local lads and building their profile, seems to spend hours rearranging fixture lists to ensure a boat load of average journeyman Frenchman, Swedes, Danes, Germans, Slovaks, Italians, etc etc etc all get to race when they tell us they are available.. 

Names that will mean very little in their own towns and countries never mind locally in towns and cities in England or Scotland..

A very strange plan..

We have to start with a blank piece of paper. And you are quite right, if we were starting from day 1 tomorrow, we would not come up with what we have today.

Edited April 2, 2020 by falcace

[HGould]

3 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

Yes your idea Falcon is a very good one something needs to change in my opinion, and if your suggestion happened i would go with It because i love speedway.Will things change i think not it never has in my lifetime and the chance they had years ago to let the late great John Berry revamp the sport was lost.The real shame of it all is we do have talented people out there who  could try and implement change ( i.e.) Bishop,L.Kilby, Painter, Vatcher.

Sums up the problem . Three of those names agree 100% with. They have little or no influence though at BSPA which is a closed shop of inward looking thinking..

Bishop promotes an NDL team very well but NDL has always been something the BSPA treat as an aside. Kilby has been around a few Clubs and seems to have found a niche at Swindon, meaning he didn't have time to do much with us brummies, but very positive force. Painter is probably the most interesting, involved in motor sport and speedway for a number of years, he now runs Team GB and in a few years they have developed incredibly well and professionally. 

throw in 2 other names who could have a lot more influence. Adrian Smith CEO at Belle Vue very professional and forward thinking. Peter Facenna at Glasgow is part of a family who have delivered an amazing business model and invested significant sums in to Glasgow.

Smith and Facenna should be spearheading the Sport with Painter (all very successful businessmen) guys like Kilby and Bishop focused on marketing it.

Not product that needs tinkering with but dead heading those driving the product and bringing in real talent.   

All of those will be lost though if they feel they are just banging there head against an immovable brick wall.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

3 hours ago, racers and royals said:

Has Jack Holder retired ??

Nah - probably just sulking somewhere 

[proud panther]

2 hours ago, falcace said:

"Confessions of a speedway promoter" is still an excellent read and head and shoulders the best speedway book I've ever read.  There's some far fetched arguments comparing John Louis and Tony Davey favourably with Peter Collins, which are obviously coloured by bias and possibly a grudge? But it still presents a fantastic insight of the challenges of speedway promotion.

There is one observation that is relevant to this discussion where Berry talks about the need to prioritise the casual fan and general public above the hardcore, who will come rain or shine anyway. That's bang on and something that the sport as a whole has lost sight of. 

You are also quite right Sidney to highlight that there is still talent within the sport. To tar every promoter with the same brush would be unfair.

Is it still available to buy, seems like a good time to have a few speedway type books to read ?

[BluPanther]

5 minutes ago, proud panther said:

Is it still available to buy, seems like a good time to have a few speedway type books to read ?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1098746058/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

[fatface]

16 minutes ago, Blupanther said:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1098746058/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

Recommended. Worth a read and a re-read. Tony Mac should be paying me for this 

[martinmauger]

37 minutes ago, falcace said:

Recommended. Worth a read and a re-read. Tony Mac should be paying me for this 

It is indeed a VERY goord read, highly reccomended as is the follow-up 'More Confessions'.  Tony ain't paying me either ....

[Sidney the robin]

2 hours ago, cityrebel said:

I knew John Berry well, when he was running Wimbledon. He could be a funny guy with a great sense of humour, he also had a very serious side when it came to speedway. I got on well with him, he was a pleasure to work with.

He was really  close to Billy Sanders wasn't he City ????  a relevant point was made by Falcace in an earlier post.John could be a tad bias but i think he was tough but fair he was twenty years ahead of his time.Just the man to ask !!!! City did you ever see any of the likes of Mike Bast, Scott Autrey, Sumner McKnight , Jeff Sexton, Gene Woods practice at Wimbledon after the meeting's.? I know you went regular and was a huge Ronnie Moore fan i am  sure Iris was a regular Plough lane visitor as well at one time or another.

[Falcon1983]

John Berry was before my time but someone my old man respected hugely and the mention of Billy Sanders the same.... I say before my time I would have been too young to remember but they probably would have seen me.

Billy again such a character from what I hear the best story I ever heard was the prank he played on my parents on their wedding day.

Billy somehow stole/borrowed a sheep from a field and covered it with squirty cream and locked it in the back of my parents wedding car so when they were about to be whisked off they were met by a rather hyper sheep ready to run for it lol

[mikebv]

3 hours ago, Falcon1983 said:

This is why if the main event in british speedway was an individual championship for British riders all the promotion can go into this and developing stars no matter whether they end up in poland or not   then interest could then drop to local teams etc as well 

And the more British riders that get success, the better the national team becomes..

And the better the national team becomes, the more the mainstream media are interested..

The more the mainstream media are interested, the more domestic speedway can feed off the back of it..

The cricket and rugby union's organisational leaders saw this year's ago and brought in central contracts for their elite so they could control their training, diets, health and well being etc, and development plans to bring through home grown talent to ensure that if the elite go off into other more lucrative playing zones, that a conveyer belt of talent is there to replace them...

They knew that nothing generates high media interest in their respective sports more than a strong, successful national team, and then, on the back of that, they would get better crowds and sponsorship for their domestic game..

Saracens, Wasps, Leicester etc winning the Championship in Rugby, Lancashire, Yorkshire, Essex etc winning the County Championship in Cricket. Won't bring anywhere near the coverage for either sport that a World Cup win would bring for the national team.

Their respective organisations knew this and did something about it..

UK Speedway instead seemingly must have had a plan to help train up every other Speedway riding nation's riders, often replacing UK riders to do so..

All to try and win a title, that the only recognition you get is a buffet in the town hall and a selfie with the mayor.. 

[Spl77]

4 hours ago, martinmauger said:

It is indeed a VERY goord read, highly reccomended as is the follow-up 'More Confessions'.  Tony ain't paying me either ....

Both these books are a superb read! It's also quite sad how Berry could see how speed should and could be ran and sadly how his predictions of how the sport would end up is pretty much bang on. 

A great man with so many forward looking ideas however just like some before him and more since the BSPA sucked all the enthusiasm and energy he had for speedway out of him. 

[proud panther]

5 hours ago, Blupanther said:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1098746058/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

Haven't read any of them, thanks mate.

[cityrebel]

4 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

He was really  close to Billy Sanders wasn't he City ????  a relevant point was made by Falcace in an earlier post.John could be a tad bias but i think he was tough but fair he was twenty years ahead of his time.Just the man to ask !!!! City did you ever see any of the likes of Mike Bast, Scott Autrey, Sumner McKnight , Jeff Sexton, Gene Woods practice at Wimbledon after the meeting's.? I know you went regular and was a huge Ronnie Moore fan i am  sure Iris was a regular Plough lane visitor as well at one time or another.

Like i said Sid, John was like Marmite, you either liked him or you didn't. I got on well with him. Regarding the yanks. I remember seeing Autrey having after the meeting spins at Wimbledon in the early 1970's, and Gene Woods had a short spell riding for the Dons in 1981. It's a shame he didn't stick with it, he was a stylish rider with lots of potential.

[Sidney the robin]

41 minutes ago, cityrebel said:

Like i said Sid, John was like Marmite, you either liked him or you didn't. I got on well with him. Regarding the yanks. I remember seeing Autrey having after the meeting spins at Wimbledon in the early 1970's, and Gene Woods had a short spell riding for the Dons in 1981. It's a shame he didn't stick with it, he was a stylish rider with lots of potential.

I saw both Woods brothers ride both had real potential to be decent over here a shame they did not stick at it.