Will British Speedway Survive ?

[DSC67]

22 minutes ago, Wolfie456 said:

With Wimbledon being latest event cancelled pretty sure we wont be seeing any speedway now for 12 months.

I can't see there being any league matches ,  but there may be a few one off meetings  with invitational teams in August / September 

[waytogo28]

2 hours ago, brianbuck said:

I think the "losses" at Belle Vue are due to costs linked with the construction of the new stadium more than operating costs. It is a bit obscure whether these "losses" are on the part of the promotion or Manchester City Council. I can't claim inside knowledge of any of this - it's just my thinking.

One thing I do dislike is the constant sneering aimed at the "old" people who are supposedly the backbone of speedway's present day support. I started watching Birmingham in 1953 when I was 13 and 67 years later my enthusiasm for the sport is as great as ever, so why do people seem to want to make us feel unwelcome?

Dinosaurs - that perennial favourite of children and families have fallen out of favour Brian, with The Powers That Be within UK speedway and there is little enthusiasm ( it appears ) to see elderly, grey haired old un's staggering to their place on the terraces and needing to use the loo more often. It doesn't also seem to matter that we have been handing over our cash for 50 years plus. The speedway sporting hierarchy appears to have written them off. But, I am happy to see the old un's put to one side ( to some extent ) if it means the healthy survival of the sport in the UK. But there should always be a concession for the elderly who contributed to the days when promoters took shed loads of money home with them.

[Ben91]

2 hours ago, MattK said:

Why not? 50-60 year olds are a perfectly valid target market. They have good levels of disposable income and many have lots of time on their hands and therefore are looking for something to do. The other benefit is that there aren't a great deal of past times marketing themselves towards that group, whereas there are numerous leisure activities aimed at families, which speedway would have to compete with.

The other benefit of course is that the current presentation of speedway is perfectly suited to that age group.

 

Of course these are valid points but it is symptomatic of standard short term thinking in the Speedway world. My parents are in that age group, they find speedway less interesting than watching paint dry so I don’t think the presentation is necessarily suited to that age group. Just that a lot of the die hard fans of the sport fall in to that age group and don’t care what dross they get served up because they’ll go every week anyway. 

If you have a business and have the choice of targeting one group - families in their 30s or individuals/couples in their 50s/60s, the logical move is to target the families. They are potentially longer term customers with children who could grow up to be fully paying customers as well. 

Of course, Speedway isn’t limited to targeting only one group. There’s no reason why the product cannot be promoted and appeal to multiple age groups and situations.

[Crabba59]

That's why I keep saying that Barry bishop is the right man to move speedway forwards he does have some brilliant ideas having worked with him last season,  so passionat about the sport.  The ideas he as are forward thinking.  But I don't think he as the time with his job . 

[DC2]

If they opened a shop in the centre green could not the riders be going shopping?  

 

[mikebv]

40 minutes ago, waytogo28 said:

Dinosaurs - that perennial favourite of children and families have fallen out of favour Brian, with The Powers That Be within UK speedway and there is little enthusiasm ( it appears ) to see elderly, grey haired old un's staggering to their place on the terraces and needing to use the loo more often. It doesn't also seem to matter that we have been handing over our cash for 50 years plus. The speedway sporting hierarchy appears to have written them off. But, I am happy to see the old un's put to one side ( to some extent ) if it means the healthy survival of the sport in the UK. But there should always be a concession for the elderly who contributed to the days when promoters took shed loads of money home with them.

Dont think anyone is having a go at '50 somethings' or even older fans to he honest.

Being one of the 50+ brigade myself that age group is the life blood of the sport and pretty much keeps its struggling heart beating.. 

However, 10 years ago it was us then '40 somethings' that were the life blood of the sport and it's clear to see not all have continued with it since then..

Me included.. 

And those of us who no longer bother with domestic league racing, but still attend around 10 meetings a year (domestic FIM events, some overseas trips, and never miss a TV meeting including every Polish top division fixture),  simply haven't been replaced by any demographic..

And that is the problem the sport in the UK has..

Personally for me I now get my 'live' Speedway fix at bona fide meetings which actually mean something, and then watch the domestic league via the TV, not ever caring who wins but with an attitude of "its Speedway racing so I will watch it" and I can watch it with zero emotional attachment to the outcome..

I wouldn't pay £18 quid a meeting to watch it live though..

[HGould]

1 hour ago, Wolfie456 said:

With Wimbledon being latest event cancelled pretty sure we wont be seeing any speedway now for 12 months.

Completely different in every way.

Global event attracting around 1 million spectators over 2 weeks and with players from all Continents needing huge infrastructure and planning that can't be stopped at a few weeks notice...equivalent to a huge oil tanker.

League speedway if you are lucky 1000 to 1500 fans in many cases less, no massive infrastructure and can be arranged / cancelled very quickly. Equivalent of a coracle

Edited April 1, 2020 by HGould

[Speedtiger]

5 hours ago, brianbuck said:

I think the "losses" at Belle Vue are due to costs linked with the construction of the new stadium more than operating costs. It is a bit obscure whether these "losses" are on the part of the promotion or Manchester City Council. I can't claim inside knowledge of any of this - it's just my thinking.

One thing I do dislike is the constant sneering aimed at the "old" people who are supposedly the backbone of speedway's present day support. I started watching Birmingham in 1953 when I was 13 and 67 years later my enthusiasm for the sport is as great as ever, so why do people seem to want to make us feel unwelcome?

Fair point and well said Brian, if it weren’t for the older supporters it’s a fact there’d be know one there.

You 1st point, im told it’s the Bv  club that’s made a huge operating losses and city council have also lost a lots of money as not being paid any rent. But they paid £9m to build the stadium. 

[Falcon1983]

I think the sport needs to focus on individual racing as the "main event" of the domestic season but still have a league offering of some sort with the focus on opportunity to earn for those who dont race in Poland regularly or those who have not yet made it in Poland yet

Means less meetings but diversity with events rewarding riders who ride and support British speedway

If you take out the riders who ride regularly in the top 2 divisions on poland who do we lose? I'm not talking about riders who have squad places in Poland but those who make £££ by getting regular outings for their sides?

I'm sure someone or a few can make that list for me

[Sidney the robin]

9 minutes ago, Falcon1983 said:

I think the sport needs to focus on individual racing as the "main event" of the domestic season but still have a league offering of some sort with the focus on opportunity to earn for those who dont race in Poland regularly or those who have not yet made it in Poland yet

Means less meetings but diversity with events rewarding riders who ride and support British speedway

If you take out the riders who ride regularly in the top 2 divisions on poland who do we lose? I'm not talking about riders who have squad places in Poland but those who make £££ by getting regular outings for their sides?

I'm sure someone or a few can make that list for me

Individual racing in yesteryear was fine, but now apart from the odd meeting the market for that type of format on a regular basis has long gone.As much as the.level has dropped in the UK  most fans still enjoy league racing i certainly do.I for one would not be happy with limited meeting's and just individual meeting's.I would rather have a lesser product clubs running and being prudent and only paying  out what they can afford.

[OveFundinFan]

5 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

Individual racing in yesteryear was fine, but now apart from the odd meeting the market for that type of format on a regular basis has long gone.As much as the.level has dropped in the UK  most fans still enjoy league racing i certainly do.I for one would not be happy with limited meeting's and just individual meeting's.I would rather have a lesser product clubs running and being prudent and only paying  out what they can afford.

Sid, why is it you say league racing is now what the British speedway supporters want. It’s not for the standard of close racing surely. Team riding has disappeared, note the SON, team riding seems to be as you cross the line look behind to see if your team mate is behind you ie Jason Doyle.  It’s every man for himself (with a few exceptions). So if it’s every man for himself that is why speedway gps are so exciting. Of course the “right” track makes a difference to good close racing. Some (most) of the televised British league racing last year were rubbish, I recorded them for future viewing, but then erased the recording as soon as the meeting was over. 

[Sidney the robin]

2 hours ago, OveFundinFan said:

Sid, why is it you say league racing is now what the British speedway supporters want. It’s not for the standard of close racing surely. Team riding has disappeared, note the SON, team riding seems to be as you cross the line look behind to see if your team mate is behind you ie Jason Doyle.  It’s every man for himself (with a few exceptions). So if it’s every man for himself that is why speedway gps are so exciting. Of course the “right” track makes a difference to good close racing. Some (most) of the televised British league racing last year were rubbish, I recorded them for future viewing, but then erased the recording as soon as the meeting was over. 

Totally agree with you on most points Ove , but  for me personally individual racing all of the time would bore me .Your main point is spot on about the team riding aspect disappearing yes that has gone there is the odd race that happens and you think hey that was just like the good ol days.!!!!!  The series is on once a fortnight and that is anough for me  i am not really a converted fan of the series so my hope for the future is to try and make all league racing in the UK more enjoyable.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Sidney the robin

[Falcon1983]

10 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

Individual racing in yesteryear was fine, but now apart from the odd meeting the market for that type of format on a regular basis has long gone.As much as the.level has dropped in the UK  most fans still enjoy league racing i certainly do.I for one would not be happy with limited meeting's and just individual meeting's.I would rather have a lesser product clubs running and being prudent and only paying  out what they can afford.

This is the issue with the sport is that if you speak to fans you will get a split of what they want to speedway can't go in one specific direction

So the future (only in my opinion) should be a multi format offering something to please all fans across the board a taste of individual, league and other formats 

Who do we lose who is making it okay in Poland?  Doyle, Holder, Pedersen, 

[Ben91]

34 minutes ago, Falcon1983 said:

This is the issue with the sport is that if you speak to fans you will get a split of what they want to speedway can't go in one specific direction

So the future (only in my opinion) should be a multi format offering something to please all fans across the board a taste of individual, league and other formats 

Who do we lose who is making it okay in Poland?  Doyle, Holder, Pedersen, 

My experience of watching racing in Poland is just that it’s better. Even when the big names aren’t in the meeting. It is cheaper to get in, the meetings are run at a better pace and the racing is more competitive. That goes for league and individual meetings. I’ve seen seemingly more effort from riders in a “meaningless” individual in Poland than from others racing in our play-offs. 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Ben91

[MattK]

37 minutes ago, Falcon1983 said:

This is the issue with the sport is that if you speak to fans you will get a split of what they want to speedway can't go in one specific direction

So the future (only in my opinion) should be a multi format offering something to please all fans across the board a taste of individual, league and other formats 

Who do we lose who is making it okay in Poland?  Doyle, Holder, Pedersen, 

These are the riders who raced in at least 10 meetings in Poland last year and who've ridden recently/signed in Britain

Ekstraliga
Jason Doyle
Nicki Pedersen
Kenneth Bjerre
Fredrik Lindgren
Max Fricke
Niels Kristian Iversen
Chris Holder
Brady Kurtz

Liga 1
Troy Batchelor
Tobiasz Musielak
Jacob Thorssell
Nicolai Klindt
Rohan Tungate
Sam Masters

Liga 2
David Bellego
Kevin Woelbert
Tero Aarnio
Josh Grajczonek
Jaimon Lidsey
Dimitri Berge
Rene Bach

[Sidney the robin]

45 minutes ago, Falcon1983 said:

This is the issue with the sport is that if you speak to fans you will get a split of what they want to speedway can't go in one specific direction

So the future (only in my opinion) should be a multi format offering something to please all fans across the board a taste of individual, league and other formats 

Who do we lose who is making it okay in Poland?  Doyle, Holder, Pedersen, 

Yes your idea Falcon is a very good one something needs to change in my opinion, and if your suggestion happened i would go with It because i love speedway.Will things change i think not it never has in my lifetime and the chance they had years ago to let the late great John Berry revamp the sport was lost.The real shame of it all is we do have talented people out there who  could try and implement change ( i.e.) Bishop,L.Kilby, Painter, Vatcher.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Sidney the robin

[Falcon1983]

22 minutes ago, MattK said:

These are the riders who raced in at least 10 meetings in Poland last year and who've ridden recently/signed in Britain

Ekstraliga
Jason Doyle
Nicki Pedersen
Kenneth Bjerre
Fredrik Lindgren
Max Fricke
Niels Kristian Iversen
Chris Holder
Brady Kurtz

Liga 1
Troy Batchelor
Tobiasz Musielak
Jacob Thorssell
Nicolai Klindt
Rohan Tungate
Sam Masters

Liga 2
David Bellego
Kevin Woelbert
Tero Aarnio
Josh Grajczonek
Jaimon Lidsey
Dimitri Berge
Rene Bach

Thanks for the list will help me as I put together a detailed plan of what I'd do with british speedway and I look forward to people pulling it apart haha

[racers and royals]

20 minutes ago, MattK said:

These are the riders who raced in at least 10 meetings in Poland last year and who've ridden recently/signed in Britain

Ekstraliga
Jason Doyle
Nicki Pedersen
Kenneth Bjerre
Fredrik Lindgren
Max Fricke
Niels Kristian Iversen
Chris Holder
Brady Kurtz

Liga 1
Troy Batchelor
Tobiasz Musielak
Jacob Thorssell
Nicolai Klindt
Rohan Tungate
Sam Masters

Liga 2
David Bellego
Kevin Woelbert
Tero Aarnio
Josh Grajczonek
Jaimon Lidsey
Dimitri Berge
Rene Bach

Has Jack Holder retired ??

[MattK]

 

6 minutes ago, Falcon1983 said:

Thanks for the list will help me as I put together a detailed plan of what I'd do with british speedway and I look forward to people pulling it apart haha

You can see the riders here:

https://sportowefakty.wp.pl/zuzel/pge-ekstraliga/statystyki/2019

The first drop down let's you select the league.

[fatface]

1 hour ago, Sidney the robin said:

Yes your idea Falcon is a very good one something needs to change in my opinion, and if your suggestion happened i would go with It because i love speedway.Will things change i think not it never has in my lifetime and the chance they had years ago to let the late great John Berry revamp the sport was lost.The real shame of it all is we do have talented people out there who  could try and implement change ( i.e.) Bishop,L.Kilby, Painter, Vatcher.

"Confessions of a speedway promoter" is still an excellent read and head and shoulders the best speedway book I've ever read.  There's some far fetched arguments comparing John Louis and Tony Davey favourably with Peter Collins, which are obviously coloured by bias and possibly a grudge? But it still presents a fantastic insight of the challenges of speedway promotion.

There is one observation that is relevant to this discussion where Berry talks about the need to prioritise the casual fan and general public above the hardcore, who will come rain or shine anyway. That's bang on and something that the sport as a whole has lost sight of. 

You are also quite right Sidney to highlight that there is still talent within the sport. To tar every promoter with the same brush would be unfair.