Will British Speedway Survive ?

[FAST GATER]

14 minutes ago, MattK said:

How's that panned out this last decade or so for speedway though?

If you to appeal to young fans, which in and of itself isn't a bad approach, the whole way speedway is presented needs to be overhauled. Then in turn, you risk alienating your current customer base (who are largely over 50) because they don't like the style of music, presentation etc.

For me, it is obvious that speedway should be promoting itself to the over 50s.

Sadly I think you are right in some respects there but I do think that running on a weekend would make a difference my daughter (30 yrs old  and loves her s/way) can't go in the week as she is often at work till 8pm after a 5.30 am start .Week nights are more for the empty nesters and the early semi or fully retired  I do think if you want a family sport week nights are a non starter .

Edited April 1, 2020 by FAST GATER

[fatface]

6 minutes ago, cityrebel said:

You certainly won't find many of the current promoters implementing the changes that you want. New blood is needed on both sides of the fence. Maybe the sport can rise from the ashes at the end of this crisis, but I'm not holding my breath.

Sadly, I agree.

I don't have all the answers. But I definitely think the answers do not lie among the current stakeholders of the sport. Promoters, riders, fans cannot see the wood for the trees. Tinkering with doubling up and bonus points is utterly irrelevant to the wider public. The BSPA should get in some independent consultants to do a proper market analysis and business plan, be braced for some radical proposals and have the balls to implement them. Then again, Poole Pirates might change their name to Poole Pink Elephants.

[HGould]

16 minutes ago, cityrebel said:

You certainly won't find many of the current promoters implementing the changes that you want. New blood is needed on both sides of the fence. Maybe the sport can rise from the ashes at the end of this crisis, but I'm not holding my breath.

time to look at the few who are promoting the sport properly and looking at new options; problem is how many of them will survive the cull that's about to be caused by the Covid-19 issues. In the case of one of them the IOW how do they survive no NDL next season.

[cityrebel]

12 minutes ago, HGould said:

time to look at the few who are promoting the sport properly and looking at new options; problem is how many of them will survive the cull that's about to be caused by the Covid-19 issues. In the case of one of them the IOW how do they survive no NDL next season.

There are some tough decisions that need to be made regarding the future of the NL. Will the current clubs that run two teams, still have the finances to do so. Scary times for all levels of the sport.

[waytogo28]

I understand the idea of marketing it at the over 50s but I suspect that will get nowhere - or certainly not very far. I have just joined the over 70s and been a spedway fan since birth - taken by my parents and not that interested until a hero - My Hero emerged at Norwich. Ove Fundin. THEN  I was interested in the racing and the results.That interest has lasted more than 60 years - althgough getting weaker as the "first away invariably wins" became ever more obvious ( and boring ).

Even I now find the dated and rough and ready watching environment to be unappetising, Rubbish low quality food & drink - but still expensive is all the fare offered .Add to that, the sad quality of the P.A. and interviews that might be interesting but you cannot hear if they are or not. At least they would fill in the overlong unneccssary time gap between races ( if they tuirned out to be interesting ). Promoters or club owners should try looking at it through the eyes of a new or regular supporter. "What do you think of that - be honest", little chance of hearing that request - as feedback if not dripping with enthusiasm is swatted away. As the racing has become less appealing and thrilling for me , the environment comes under more scrutiny!

Regardless of how much of a turn off it is to the over 50s - market it to a much younger family and teen audience sector. It will either turn away us old uns ( or IF the racing is better it will still pull us in grudingly -which does not matter if it does attract that younger group in decent numbers ). Even without Covid 19 attrition in the 60 plus ranks, they will not be there so much longer.

Re-structure it considerably and sell if diofferently to a new market that might ensure that domestic UK speedway does survive and even thrive! That younger market needs more than is on offer at the moment, as if you can get them in once, I fear many would not bother to return, given the state of what we see at the moment.

[Midland Red]

On 3/17/2020 at 2:50 AM, Jonny the spud said:

Riders are in the same position. Many have spent thousands preparing for the season  too. 

In the good old days, riders would just have got on with their day jobs, and survived

 If and when this is all over, perhaps we all, riders in particular, can get back to basics

[fatface]

12 minutes ago, waytogo28 said:

I understand the idea of marketing it at the over 50s but I suspect that will get nowhere - or certainly not very far. I have just joined the over 70s and been a spedway fan since birth - taken by my parents and not that interested until a hero - My Hero emerged at Norwich. Ove Fundin. THEN  I was interested in the racing and the results.That interest has lasted more than 60 years - althgough getting weaker as the "first away invariably wins" became ever more obvious ( and boring ).

Even I now find the dated and rough and ready watching environment to be unappetising, Rubbish low quality food & drink - but still expensive is all the fare offered .Add to that, the sad quality of the P.A. and interviews that might be interesting but you cannot hear if they are or not. At least they would fill in the overlong unneccssary time gap between races ( if they tuirned out to be interesting ). Promoters or club owners should try looking at it through the eyes of a new or regular supporter. "What do you think of that - be honest", little chance of hearing that request - as feedback if not dripping with enthusiasm is swatted away. As the racing has become less appealing and thrilling for me , the environment comes under more scrutiny!

Regardless of how much of a turn off it is to the over 50s - market it to a much younger family and teen audience sector. It will either turn away us old uns ( or IF the racing is better it will still pull us in grudingly -which does not matter if it does attract that younger group in decent numbers ). Even without Covid 19 attrition in the 60 plus ranks, they will not be there so much longer.

Re-structure it considerably and sell if diofferently to a new market that might ensure that domestic UK speedway does survive and even thrive! That younger market needs more than is on offer at the moment, as if you can get them in once, I fear many would not bother to return, given the state of what we see at the moment.

Correctomundo...and exactly the sort of open-minded approach needed. The product has been utterly geared towards 50+ year olds for yonks and here we are. 

I think by general consensus Belle Vue Speedway currently has the strongest offering of all the venues in the UK at the moment. Good facilities, great track with excellent racing, city location in the top league. Yet, as I understand it, they are operating under break even levels using the outdated midweek speedway model. If Belle Vue can't cut it, what chance have other tracks got of a long-term future?

[mikebv]

38 minutes ago, cityrebel said:

There are some tough decisions that need to be made regarding the future of the NL. Will the current clubs that run two teams, still have the finances to do so. Scary times for all levels of the sport.

There may be lots of spaces in teams in the Premier and Championship if everyone doesnt come back from overseas, or prioritises Poland and Sweden, upon the return of the Sport, which might negate the need for two teams at those clubs who plan to run them...

[MattK]

1 hour ago, mikebv said:

It does if you get the kids hooked on it..

McDonalds do a 'reasonable job' of targeting kids so I presume it works!! 

The issue UK Speedway has is that kids up to say 11 will  go along maybe under suffererence, or maybe they do like it so put some pressure on parents to take them..

However post 11, and on into the teens, why would you want to go somewhere your Dad and Granddad goes for a night out?

Dominoes and Crib in the interval maybe? 

Since I would say 2000, there are now more people living who 'used to go to Speedway' than currently do attend..

Therefore targeting their return has to be easier than getting someone who hasn't a clue about the sport surely?

 

That's because McDonald's gear their products towards appeal to children. Bright colours, tie-ins with kids films and TV, toys in the Happy Meals. As I said, speedway could do this but it would require a complete revamp of how the sport is presented today.

[Speedtiger]

39 minutes ago, falcace said:

I think by general consensus Belle Vue Speedway currently has the strongest offering of all the venues in the UK at the moment. Good facilities, great track with excellent racing, city location in the top league. Yet, as I understand it, they are operating under break even levels using the outdated midweek speedway model. If Belle Vue can't cut it, what chance have other tracks got of a long-term future?

Agree with you I’m a regular attender at BV and the track racing etc are the best in U.K. by a mile But think you are wrong about ‘break even’ as I were told by an insider that they have lost 100’s of thousands pounds. And that was before this virus crisis. How clubs can survive this disaster is looking increasingly difficult. 

[HGould]

14 minutes ago, Speedtiger said:

Agree with you I’m a regular attender at BV and the track racing etc are the best in U.K. by a mile But think you are wrong about ‘break even’ as I were told by an insider that they have lost 100’s of thousands pounds. And that was before this virus crisis. How clubs can survive this disaster is looking increasingly difficult. 

Heard that too although I think much of it may be linked to what City Council claimed is owed by Dave Gorton (is it Gorton or Gordon - sorry) and Chris Morton. Good race track yet reputed to be losing money each season.

Look at Glasgow, another good race track, probably the best in terms of professionalism in the UK and they admit they lose tens of thousands a season.

Which Clubs (if any) do make any money based purely on Speedway?

Scunthorpe (mainly you'd guess from track rental)

Ipswich (big crowds and great Sponsors) 

Swindon - possibly

Kent - Len claims he's never had a season where he has lost money.

Almost every other one I can think of has at some point admitted either hanging on or losing hand over fist.

Very worrying times.

 

[Crabba59]

Think you will find bell vue are losing money more to do with what they have to pay out rent, security guards ect. That's why ther are trying to buy it lock stock and barrel of the council.  If they could don't think the loss would be any where nearly like there are now if at all. 

[Ben91]

3 hours ago, MattK said:

Again, proof that speedway doesn't understand its target market. Why promote speedway to kids? It makes no sense.

Sport is for everyone. Speedway is a sport and can be for everyone. When I go to football the crowd is predominantly male, yes, but the age range of fans goes from toddlers right up to the elderly and there are an increasing number of female fans also. 

Appealing to the younger generation is logical. They are the fans of the future. The product now may find most of its audience in the over 50-60 demographic but that isn’t the smartest demographic to target to bring in new fans. 

Speedway is a strange entity. I am not a huge motorsport fan but I used to love my Speedway. If the sport here was governed and promoted properly I may well love it again sometime. The sport’s uniqueness is its selling point. It is loud and dirty, people like that. It is dangerous, people like that. You can see the whole race wherever you are in the stadium and it only takes one minute. That is a huge selling point for those who get bored easily with other motorsports because they can only see one part of the circuit or because the races drag on for too long. What holds back that part of proceedings in Speedway is unnecessary delays. Track grading and watering, riders having back to back rides etc. These are issues that could be fixed although that is a completely different subject. 

[brianbuck]

I think the "losses" at Belle Vue are due to costs linked with the construction of the new stadium more than operating costs. It is a bit obscure whether these "losses" are on the part of the promotion or Manchester City Council. I can't claim inside knowledge of any of this - it's just my thinking.

One thing I do dislike is the constant sneering aimed at the "old" people who are supposedly the backbone of speedway's present day support. I started watching Birmingham in 1953 when I was 13 and 67 years later my enthusiasm for the sport is as great as ever, so why do people seem to want to make us feel unwelcome?

[MattK]

2 hours ago, falcace said:

Correctomundo...and exactly the sort of open-minded approach needed. The product has been utterly geared towards 50+ year olds for yonks and here we are. 

I think by general consensus Belle Vue Speedway currently has the strongest offering of all the venues in the UK at the moment. Good facilities, great track with excellent racing, city location in the top league. Yet, as I understand it, they are operating under break even levels using the outdated midweek speedway model. If Belle Vue can't cut it, what chance have other tracks got of a long-term future?

That sounds like the dictionary definition of "build it and they will come" - which we all know is both a misquote and from a fictional movie. What is Belle Vue doing to promote speedway? Ironically, I do a bit of work in Manchester from time to time and have never once seen any kind of advert for the speedway since I started going up there last summer.

[cityrebel]

28 minutes ago, brianbuck said:

I think the "losses" at Belle Vue are due to costs linked with the construction of the new stadium more than operating costs. It is a bit obscure whether these "losses" are on the part of the promotion or Manchester City Council. I can't claim inside knowledge of any of this - it's just my thinking.

One thing I do dislike is the constant sneering aimed at the "old" people who are supposedly the backbone of speedway's present day support. I started watching Birmingham in 1953 when I was 13 and 67 years later my enthusiasm for the sport is as great as ever, so why do people seem to want to make us feel unwelcome?

Well said Brian. Some people think the older fans are holding the sport back. I think the blame lies squarely with the promoters. They feathered their own nests when times were good, with no thought for the future. Visionary promoters like John Berry were allowed to leave the sport, and a lot of good ideas went with him.

[MattK]

38 minutes ago, Ben91 said:

Appealing to the younger generation is logical. They are the fans of the future. The product now may find most of its audience in the over 50-60 demographic but that isn’t the smartest demographic to target to bring in new fans. 

Why not? 50-60 year olds are a perfectly valid target market. They have good levels of disposable income and many have lots of time on their hands and therefore are looking for something to do. The other benefit is that there aren't a great deal of past times marketing themselves towards that group, whereas there are numerous leisure activities aimed at families, which speedway would have to compete with.

The other benefit of course is that the current presentation of speedway is perfectly suited to that age group.

 

[fatface]

1 hour ago, brianbuck said:

One thing I do dislike is the constant sneering aimed at the "old" people who are supposedly the backbone of speedway's present day support. I started watching Birmingham in 1953 when I was 13 and 67 years later my enthusiasm for the sport is as great as ever, so why do people seem to want to make us feel unwelcome?

Who's sneering? Who's making you unwelcome? The point is Brian is that if the sport panders entirely to its 50+ year olds core market, it has a very limited future. Valid points are being made to draw in as wide a demographic as possible. Surely after 67 years you can see the sport badly needs to be fresh and relevant to young people as it was to you in the 50s?

The point is made elsewhere over Macdonald's being geared towards kids. Partly true. A range of its products are geared towards kids. But there's something there for everyone in the average British family. Good coffee, burgers, healthy meal options, iPads, newspapers and the place is constantly being cleaned. Speedway needs to widen its vision to the entire landscape and provide a product that can appeal to a wider number of potential customers.

"Doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity" said Einstein. You don't have to take my word for it, take Einstein's.

Edited April 1, 2020 by falcace

[fatface]

1 hour ago, Speedtiger said:

Agree with you I’m a regular attender at BV and the track racing etc are the best in U.K. by a mile But think you are wrong about ‘break even’ as I were told by an insider that they have lost 100’s of thousands pounds. And that was before this virus crisis. How clubs can survive this disaster is looking increasingly difficult. 

Sorry I should have been clearer. I too have heard the same. Rather than "under break even", I meant "less than break even".

[Wolfie456]

3 hours ago, mikebv said:

There may be lots of spaces in teams in the Premier and Championship if everyone doesnt come back from overseas, or prioritises Poland and Sweden, upon the return of the Sport, which might negate the need for two teams at those clubs who plan to run them...

With Wimbledon being latest event cancelled pretty sure we wont be seeing any speedway now for 12 months.