Will British Speedway Survive ?

[iris123]

2 hours ago, mikebv said:

I attended a three hour indoor supercross event at the Manchester Arena a couple of years ago that got a 7000 full house at £45 for me and £15 for my then 14 year old lad..

Didn't have a clue who any of the riders were, (and still dont)..

Lots of local marketing, using billboards, flyers given out in the very busy city centre by 'quite attractive' young ladies, riders doing wheelies in the city centre in front of the local TV cameras and newspapers, and a three minute interview on the local news programme explaining what was on offer..

Paid £60, plus won a T shirt fired from an air gun into the crowd, my lad got a free poster signed by 'whoever', I spent a bomb on Coke and Hot Dogs, plus I spent £5 on texting my name to a number to try (unsuccessfully) to win a kids MX bike suspended from the ceiling.

Me and about 3500 other Dad's looking at the amount of mobile phones that were taken out when the competition was announced.

(The bike was worth around £1500 so they made a hell of pile of cash on this competiton)..

Loads of merchandise stalls for the riders to sell their own gear and an autograph/selfie area where riders signed free posters of themselves...

Loads of interviews of riders between racers to get an insight into their personality,  with the local lads being the prime interviewees to illicit some local partisanship from us fans who didn't know them from Adam. Meaning we watched out for them more closely..

Three hours of noise, music, lights, colour, racing and a mike man who kept the whole thing moving at a break neck pace which befits a high octane, adreneline fuelled sport, and your attention never wavered...

Do all that for a Saturday night at a Speedway meeting and you may just have a success on your hands...

I agree with part of that. I went to a joint speedway/MotoX event and the MotoX jumps were far more spectacular and much better presented than the speedway. Smolinski really ripped into the speedway presentation and said it was old fashioned compared to the spectacular jumps. And I would go to another Night f the Jumps or whatever it is. The things is though, it is a one-off. I wouldn't pay that sort of money weekly nor monthly, and it is I would think repeptetive anyway

As it goes, after not going to a meeting last season (Not because I didn't want to mind, it was more a clash with something else or when I had the time the weather wasn't up to much. And I have enough experience of travelling miles only for a meeting to be called off or pushed through with no actual racing because of the conditions, and won't pay out for that) I was actually looking forward to this season. And now it looks like it will hardly get going

[mikebv]

1 hour ago, iris123 said:

I agree with part of that. I went to a joint speedway/MotoX event and the MotoX jumps were far more spectacular and much better presented than the speedway. Smolinski really ripped into the speedway presentation and said it was old fashioned compared to the spectacular jumps. And I would go to another Night f the Jumps or whatever it is. The things is though, it is a one-off. I wouldn't pay that sort of money weekly nor monthly, and it is I would think repeptetive anyway

As it goes, after not going to a meeting last season (Not because I didn't want to mind, it was more a clash with something else or when I had the time the weather wasn't up to much. And I have enough experience of travelling miles only for a meeting to be called off or pushed through with no actual racing because of the conditions, and won't pay out for that) I was actually looking forward to this season. And now it looks like it will hardly get going

I think Speedway (in this country) needs to get itself an identity..

Every single meeting should be a stand alone event, and promoted as such...

There is too much Speedway that just unfortunately, blandly 'goes through the motions'..

The Supercross event I attended had loads of off track add ons to keep the fans engaged, many of which had minimal costs involved, yet targeted the younger element of the fanbase (which in turn pester the parents!)..

Fan zones, meet and greets, up to date music, lights, colour, noise, an enthusiastic mike man, making personalities of the riders etc etc all can be replicated at a Speedway meeting..

The evening should be geared up with one simple objective. .

And that's to get at least the same amount of people to go again...

And if that gets delivered regularly, the next stage is to grow the attendance organically through the show it puts on...

It can't deliver a 'team sport' in its purest form in the UK so, given the hiatus, maybe it's time to sell the 'spectacle' instead. A spectacle that can reach levels very few stadium sports can match. .

High octane, adreneline fuelled action with an off track dynamic aimed at a demographic (at least) 20 years lower than the current average of regular follower..

However, instead of asking "How will we wow the punters tonight?" and put together an overall "great nights entertainment package at the Speedway" for its fans, it does often appear that some promoters spend more time, energy and emotion checking, double checking and treble checking whether the oppositions "guest" is eligible to ride against them or not....

All in the name of trying to win a match that often only a few hundred actually care enough about to bother attending..

Edited March 31, 2020 by mikebv

[cityrebel]

A couple of seasons ago BMR put on a motocross demonstration at Rye House during the interval of a speedway meeting. Everyone cleared off to the bar. Speedway fans are different from fans of other motorsports, maybe that is the problem.

[iris123]

1 minute ago, cityrebel said:

A couple of seasons ago BMR put on a motocross demonstration at Rye House during the interval of a speedway meeting. Everyone cleared off to the bar. Speedway fans are different from fans of other motorsports, maybe that is the problem.

Yes, I know from some meetings here. They have had go-kart or quad racing etc and it just got in the way a bit. But it was the Short track or whatever it is called that really got up peoples noses and they started to protest about it and said instead of that why not some junior speedway...... 

[fatface]

53 minutes ago, cityrebel said:

A couple of seasons ago BMR put on a motocross demonstration at Rye House during the interval of a speedway meeting. Everyone cleared off to the bar. Speedway fans are different from fans of other motorsports, maybe that is the problem.

Great! They can spend time and money in the bar then. And while the speedway is on, fans of motocross, flat track or whatever can clear off to the bar. Win win.

Of course if an additional element such as motocross is delivered within a simple speedway meeting, then of course it is going to get a lukewarm reception from a traditional speedway crowd. But if an event is marketed as a "track racing spectacular" or "bikefest" or the like, you are going to get a broader demographic..more footfall, more eyeballs, more income.

[RobMcCaffery]

2 minutes ago, falcace said:

Great! They can spend time and money in the bar then. And while the speedway is on, fans of motocross, flat track or whatever can clear off to the bar. Win win.

 

And not turn up next time. 

[fatface]

1 minute ago, RobMcCaffery said:

And not turn up next time. 

Really? Speedway fans still get their 75-90mins fix of the sport, so too do fans of the other sports. Are you not coming back because other sports are taking place around your sport? Some you might like, some you may not. Would people really cut off their nose to spite their face?

Speedway's big problem is that it is stuck in the 1970s, unwilling to change with an ever dwindling hard core of ageing fans who don't like change. It is a crumbling pub struggling badly because it is trying to please the old blokes who prop up the bar every week. It needs to freshen up, broaden its reach and offer real value to more people.

[iris123]

18 minutes ago, falcace said:

Great! They can spend time and money in the bar then. And while the speedway is on, fans of motocross, flat track or whatever can clear off to the bar. Win win.

Of course if an additional element such as motocross is delivered within a simple speedway meeting, then of course it is going to get a lukewarm reception from a traditional speedway crowd. But if an event is marketed as a "track racing spectacular" or "bikefest" or the like, you are going to get a broader demographic..more footfall, more eyeballs, more income.

You could have a point there. The go-kart racing and I think to a lesser extent the quads were a filler and they were obviously trying to put on a show, which generally meant one guy taking his foot off the gas to let the other catch him up a bit and then have a little battle again, ad infinitum. It was too obviously staged and at least in my case the interest quickly waned

[barrybishop]

4 hours ago, falcace said:

I think - unfortunately - that the race to the bottom is already well into the last lap for speedway. Carrying on as normal is not an option if the sport wants long-term survival.

I think both you and Mike have some valid points. I agree with you that team-based speedway works better than individually, which is pretty much born out across the rest of Europe. But I also think Mike is bang on when he uses the Supercross event as a model that can "cut through" with the average punter.

I've advocated this before, but I think a model that is worth experimenting with is a multi-sport model that would consist of a Saturday/Sunday 4-5 hour event including speedway, sidecars, quads, flat track, stock cars, greyhounds....whatever a venue can handle. Once a month, drawing in families and supporters from all disciplines, providing them with a real value for money experience. With a larger crowd, there is also greater appeal for fair rides, face painters, climbing walls, caterers, inflatables and other operators to attend and add to the atmosphere/experience.

I get that not all the sports on offer appeal to all...so pick and choose! I used to go the Ace of Aces grasstrack every year in the late 80s, early 90s and i was never a big fan of the "chairs", so instead I went on the fair, had a burger, got my pic taken with a page 3 girl (I was a teenager, it was the 80s, happy days! ). I think the sport has to collaborate with other similarly struggling sports to offer a richer, fuller experience to draw in more fans. Who, let's be honest, will be counting their pennies and considering their spend even more than ever when this all ends.

Ask yourself if a family of four are more likely to attend a Thursday night at Foxhall for £36 or a full Sunday afternoon for £50? 

I used to live in Frankfurt (for about 5 years) and about 10km outside is a great track called Diedenbergen - its ran as a club and even though it has 365 days a year planning it hosts maybe 10 meetings per year. However, those meetings consist of the main event - league racing plus piwi races, 125 race, 250 races (Robert Lambert benefitted from this massively), class b 500cc and gokarts with nobbly tyres on... all in all it offered more of an event, with the beer flowing, sausage stall all over it really was a afternoon and early evening... totally good stuff and all intermixed.

So Martin and I try to introduce a similar format for our meetings, although of course we are not allowed for league or cup meetings so when we have one of our other meeting types we try to stage the Wizards in that meeting so they come out every four race for two of their heats, we also include our piwi/125 riders from My Frist Skid. I am not sure if there is any way to stage this in 2020 however due to new rules about who can be on the track during the time of the referees control of the meeting but we shall see.

Edited March 31, 2020 by barrybishop
typo

[spiegal]

We (as Aussie) rode at Diedenbergen...fabulous place...and the whole afternoon was pure entertainment...you could stand on teh back straight and see Frankfurt airport. 

The problem was once described by my old mate Dave Lanning....he said "The problem with speedway is that it considers itself "Daily telegraph"..when in truth its "The sun" and you can eat

chips out of it as well.

says everything. 

[fatface]

50 minutes ago, barrybishop said:

I used to live in Frankfurt (for about 5 years) and about 10km outside is a great track called Diedenbergen - its ran as a club and even though it has 365 days a year planning it hosts maybe 10 meetings per year. However, those meetings consist of the main event - league racing, piwi races, 125 race, 250 races (Robert Lambert benefitted from this massively), class b 500cc and gokarts with nobbly tyres on... all in all it offered more of a event, with the beer flowing, sausage stall all over it really was a afternoon and early evening... totally good stuff.

So Martin and I try to introduce a similar format for our meetings although of course we are not allowed for league or cup meetings so when we have one of our other meeting types we try to stage the Wizards in that meeting so they come out every four race for two of their heats, we also include our piwi/125 riders from My Frist Skid. I am not sure if there is any way to stage this in 2020 however due to new rules about who can be on the track during the time of the referees control of the meeting but we shall see.

That's interesting to hear. Thanks Barry. Appreciate you coming on here and sharing your experiences and insight.

I can well imagine there are restrictions on meeting formats agreed and decreed by the BSPA. And for the most part with the best intentions. But British Speedway is not in a position of the English Premier League or the NBA in delivering a winning formula. So, I hope...if there is a positive to come of this...that the BSPA will loosen the guidelines to allow promoters to be a bit more creative in delivering a full value experience for punters. None of us have all the answers, but I do know that plodding on with the same format definitely isn't the answer. 

 

[Ben91]

4 hours ago, cityrebel said:

A couple of seasons ago BMR put on a motocross demonstration at Rye House during the interval of a speedway meeting. Everyone cleared off to the bar. Speedway fans are different from fans of other motorsports, maybe that is the problem.

Remember it well. Was absolutely awful, as was the eyesore of a “stadium-cross” track in the middle of the track. 

[The Third Man]

6 hours ago, falcace said:

 

Ask yourself if a family of four are more likely to attend a Thursday night at Foxhall for £36 or a full Sunday afternoon for £50? 

To be honest I want to watch speedway, so the Thursday night option at Sheffield  appeals much more to me, so much so that I wouldn't attend the Sunday afternoon event

Edited March 31, 2020 by The Third Man

[RobMcCaffery]

3 hours ago, falcace said:

Really? Speedway fans still get their 75-90mins fix of the sport, so too do fans of the other sports. Are you not coming back because other sports are taking place around your sport? Some you might like, some you may not. Would people really cut off their nose to spite their face?

Speedway's big problem is that it is stuck in the 1970s, unwilling to change with an ever dwindling hard core of ageing fans who don't like change. It is a crumbling pub struggling badly because it is trying to please the old blokes who prop up the bar every week. It needs to freshen up, broaden its reach and offer real value to more people.

Yes, really. They can have this conversation while enjoying their overpriced pints "I pay £17 to get in here and half the night's racing I wouldn't watch for free. How long before the next speedway? Oh, time to go home I think".

It's rather like interrupting a football match to play rugby. 

[mikebv]

2 minutes ago, RobMcCaffery said:

Yes, really. They can have this conversation while enjoying their overpriced pints "I pay £17 to get in here and half the night's racing I wouldn't watch for free. How long before the next speedway? Oh, time to go home I think".

It's rather like interrupting a football match to play rugby. 

Whilst team speedway all over the UK attracts a few hundred 50, 60 and 70 something year olds rattling around in a four fifths empty stadium...

Its working so well it's probably best we just carry on doing the same thing....

Over and over and over and over again.. 

[fatface]

47 minutes ago, RobMcCaffery said:

Yes, really. They can have this conversation while enjoying their overpriced pints "I pay £17 to get in here and half the night's racing I wouldn't watch for free. How long before the next speedway? Oh, time to go home I think".

It's rather like interrupting a football match to play rugby. 

Hmm. I think you've added 2 and 2 and got five there Rob.

I understand it's practically difficult to alternate sports on the track. I'm talking about 60-90mins slots per sport, then the next sport. Have your pint, have a look, maybe see what other entertainments kicking about and enjoy the atmosphere with a bigger weekend crowd. 

Of course, I very much doubt any of this will happen, nor even be attempted.

Much more likely - almost certain - is we continue to carry on as normal with our 50-80yr old hardcore and keep the likes of The Third Man happy, serving up the same old midweek speedway model and sleepwalk into oblivion. 

[cityrebel]

6 hours ago, falcace said:

Great! They can spend time and money in the bar then. And while the speedway is on, fans of motocross, flat track or whatever can clear off to the bar. Win win.

Of course if an additional element such as motocross is delivered within a simple speedway meeting, then of course it is going to get a lukewarm reception from a traditional speedway crowd. But if an event is marketed as a "track racing spectacular" or "bikefest" or the like, you are going to get a broader demographic..more footfall, more eyeballs, more income.

Didn't king's Lynn recently run a similar two day event and no one turned up. 

[cityrebel]

6 hours ago, falcace said:

Really? Speedway fans still get their 75-90mins fix of the sport, so too do fans of the other sports. Are you not coming back because other sports are taking place around your sport? Some you might like, some you may not. Would people really cut off their nose to spite their face?

Speedway's big problem is that it is stuck in the 1970s, unwilling to change with an ever dwindling hard core of ageing fans who don't like change. It is a crumbling pub struggling badly because it is trying to please the old blokes who prop up the bar every week. It needs to freshen up, broaden its reach and offer real value to more people.

The majority of fans want a swiftly run meeting. Standing around for hours doesent appeal to everyone. That's what i like about football, it runs like clockwork.

Edited March 31, 2020 by cityrebel

[RobMcCaffery]

I see people are abusing the current situation to promote their own private agendas. The sarcasm from one does suggest desperation.  You are free to advance individual racing instead of teams or putting together composite meetings, despite there being clear evidence that apart from SGPs individual racing is box-office poison and that mixed meetings please none and annoy all. 

The situation is serious but making the sport profoundly worse would be suicidal.  I shall leave you both to it. Even in self-isolation there simply isn't enough time.

These ideas have been tried - and failed and no amount of sarcasm will change that.

 

[RobMcCaffery]

11 minutes ago, cityrebel said:

The majority of fans want a swiftly run meeting. Standing around for hours doesent appeal to everyone. That's what i like about football, it runs like clockwork.

Quite right.