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Will British Speedway Survive ?


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1 hour ago, Ben91 said:

You didn’t specify that. What’s happened here is that you challenged me in a condescending manner, I proved you wrong, which you can’t accept so you’ve now moved the goal posts. 

No I asked you a perfectly reasonable question I. e how many riders are there. You dodged and told me to work it out myself as it was so easy. You then took half a day yourself to come up with some fantasy number, not knowing if they are still riding nor willing to do anything other than local second halves etc

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3 hours ago, iris123 said:

No I asked you a perfectly reasonable question I. e how many riders are there. You dodged and told me to work it out myself as it was so easy. You then took half a day yourself to come up with some fantasy number, not knowing if they are still riding nor willing to do anything other than local second halves etc

No. I read your response this morning and did about half an hour of research that you could have done yourself, because unlike some my life doesn’t seem to revolve around Internet forums. Naturally you wanted me to end up being wrong and with egg on my face and you’d have achieved looking like a real big person online. You would have been ignored if I’m honest because of the tone you took but Greyhoundp took an interest in the subject too and made a comment so I took the time to back up my point. That “fantasy” number that I came up with is hard fact. They are British speedway riders. That was the question that was asked, and then answered. End of. I’m done with discussing it with you. 

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13 minutes ago, Ben91 said:

No. I read your response this morning and did about half an hour of research that you could have done yourself, because unlike some my life doesn’t seem to revolve around Internet forums. Naturally you wanted me to end up being wrong and with egg on my face and you’d have achieved looking like a real big person online. You would have been ignored if I’m honest because of the tone you took but Greyhoundp took an interest in the subject too and made a comment so I took the time to back up my point. That “fantasy” number that I came up with is hard fact. They are British speedway riders. That was the question that was asked, and then answered. End of. I’m done with discussing it with you. 

No. Again, to repeat myself. I asked you a perfectly reasonable question. How many riders are there? To starting post saying there are enough. You then made a strange response by telling me to look myself..........if you state something, it is perfectly reasonable to think you know the answer and if you look back, as I don't think it necessary to quote my post (it is there for all to see) it is absolutely justified to ask you that question...... You decide to not answer, but give a narky response.

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22 hours ago, greyhoundp said:

Well there are 19 senior Teams which means 133 British riders would be needed, I for one dont think there are enough British riders to go round, just to make up a team of seven British riders would most likely mean having some riders trail round a half lap or more that would not bring in spectators. I realise the sport would need to make decisions just to get teams on track, but very much doubt that would be a way forward.

Yet it was fine in the late 80's, early 90's when crowds were far bigger..

You should know that more than anyone with some of the reserves Cradley trotted out in that period!

I've got plenty of tapes with Sam Ermolenko, Ronnie Correy, Jan O Pedersen and the like in the same race as folks like David Haynes.. who literally were nearly half a lap behind.

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22 hours ago, iris123 said:

Just out of interest how many British riders are there currently ?

No....here it is. Perfectly reasonable by any standards

Not knowing you, I made the mistake of thinking a straight question would receive a straight answer.......know better next time

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1 hour ago, BWitcher said:

Yet it was fine in the late 80's, early 90's when crowds were far bigger..

You should know that more than anyone with some of the reserves Cradley trotted out in that period!

I've got plenty of tapes with Sam Ermolenko, Ronnie Correy, Jan O Pedersen and the like in the same race as folks like David Haynes.. who literally were nearly half a lap behind.

You sure ? you know that stuff like that never happened in the old days 

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The message coming out yesterday seemed to be normal life won't return for about 6 months and self isolation will be here for a few months.....so I can't see them opening up sports stadia to the public any time soon

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31 minutes ago, FAST GATER said:

One of the biggest effects on league s/way IMO  is the GP's they robbed us of weekend team racing in both leagues really  ( better for kids to go) the best riders either not in the league or treating it as a top up for income or testing and to   sustain fitness levels .

You can possibly make the argument that the GPs have stolen the Friday/Saturday night slots from British clubs. However, I think Britain's inability to pick a lane and instead choosing to run throughout the week was a large factor in that.

You cannot argue that the GPs have robbed Britain of the top riders though. All the top riders still ride league speedway in Poland, Sweden and increasingly Denmark. Therefore the blame lies solely at the feet of British speedway, their inability to be flexible (running of a Friday before a GP for example), declining crowds/poor sponsorship meaning earnings are comparatively low and going even further back to the 80s and 90s their decision to not invest in the future.

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12 hours ago, BWitcher said:

Yet it was fine in the late 80's, early 90's when crowds were far bigger..

You should know that more than anyone with some of the reserves Cradley trotted out in that period!

I've got plenty of tapes with Sam Ermolenko, Ronnie Correy, Jan O Pedersen and the like in the same race as folks like David Haynes.. who literally were nearly half a lap behind.

Yeah and Jan O would pick them off one at a time :D;) knowing his fellow team mate was making up the numbers. We also had some dam good ones such as Bob Valentine, Ila Teromaa, Kristian Praestbro, Dave Shields and one that didnt work out was Arne Pander. There were as you say others that quickly faded from memory.

There was a time during the 60,s when some of our so called  heat leaders were half a lap behind :D.

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2 hours ago, MattK said:

You can possibly make the argument that the GPs have stolen the Friday/Saturday night slots from British clubs. However, I think Britain's inability to pick a lane and instead choosing to run throughout the week was a large factor in that.

You cannot argue that the GPs have robbed Britain of the top riders though. All the top riders still ride league speedway in Poland, Sweden and increasingly Denmark. Therefore the blame lies solely at the feet of British speedway, their inability to be flexible (running of a Friday before a GP for example), declining crowds/poor sponsorship meaning earnings are comparatively low and going even further back to the 80s and 90s their decision to not invest in the future.

We got out in the early 80's my father saw the sport changing and social demands becoming more  sophisticated my younger brother (  by 4yrs ) lost interest very quickly because there were other distractions and he didn't remotely want to have a go at riding  .You are right about the sport not investing in it's future  but if I am honest my own opinion has changed over the years and I would say s/way is very much like" Marmite" as they say  . My daughter and I have stood in mud and watched  matches and come away moaning about a doggy pass not wet feet ,I know there are many like us on here still but we are a diminishing breed .

Imo one of  the main problems is that the demands of the sport mean it fails to meet the modern outlook ,it is deemed noisy ,anti social and it's fan base is so small that the powers that be feel little if any pressure to assist it's continued existance !

One thing you say is true  though pay enough money and they will come Top Riders that is, as I  always say team sport ridden by individuals but will the fans come ? 

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30 minutes ago, FAST GATER said:

We got out in the early 80's my father saw the sport changing and social demands becoming more  sophisticated my younger brother (  by 4yrs ) lost interest very quickly because there were other distractions and he didn't remotely want to have a go at riding  .You are right about the sport not investing in it's future  but if I am honest my own opinion has changed over the years and I would say s/way is very much like" Marmite" as they say  . My daughter and I have stood in mud and watched  matches and come away moaning about a doggy pass not wet feet ,I know there are many like us on here still but we are a diminishing breed .

Imo one of  the main problems is that the demands of the sport mean it fails to meet the modern outlook ,it is deemed noisy ,anti social and it's fan base is so small that the powers that be feel little if any pressure to assist it's continued existance !

One thing you say is true  though pay enough money and they will come Top Riders that is, as I  always say team sport ridden by individuals but will the fans come ? 

Being noisy, dirt and anti-social are not necessarily bad things. Look at the massive popularity of mixed martial arts. The top fighters earn millions, as do the owners of UFC. It depends how they are promoted. I remember Lakeside promoting speedway as an extreme sport, which I always thought was a great angle for precisely the reasons you describe.

However, other clubs promote it as family friendly, which I never really understood.

Again, a fundamental problem with speedway is that they don't know who their target market is, so take a scatter gun approach to trying to get new fans.

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7 minutes ago, MattK said:

Being noisy, dirt and anti-social are not necessarily bad things. Look at the massive popularity of mixed martial arts. The top fighters earn millions, as do the owners of UFC. It depends how they are promoted. I remember Lakeside promoting speedway as an extreme sport, which I always thought was a great angle for precisely the reasons you describe.

However, other clubs promote it as family friendly, which I never really understood.

Again, a fundamental problem with speedway is that they don't know who their target market is, so take a scatter gun approach to trying to get new fans.

 

Good points, but even MMA is promoted as family friendly at grass roots level.

I’m surprised no one has manufactured “speedway bikes” for kids, normal bikes that resemble speedway bikes and developed little leagues for bike riding.

 

Edited by DC2
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There used be a range of Raleigh bicycles, not quite BMX but today we would call semi-mountain bikes, one was a Grifter (the one I wanted) and a smaller model called a Striker or Strika; tag line, along the lines of "aimed at the young speedway rider".  Thiing is, it really didn't look much like a speedway bike, anymore than the rest....

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2 hours ago, MattK said:

Being noisy, dirt and anti-social are not necessarily bad things. Look at the massive popularity of mixed martial arts. The top fighters earn millions, as do the owners of UFC. It depends how they are promoted. I remember Lakeside promoting speedway as an extreme sport, which I always thought was a great angle for precisely the reasons you describe.

However, other clubs promote it as family friendly, which I never really understood.

Again, a fundamental problem with speedway is that they don't know who their target market is, so take a scatter gun approach to trying to get new fans.

Good points. Agree, the fundamental problem with speedway is the people that run it, they have run the sport so badly..that’s why it’s in terminal decline. Speedway is not a ‘fashionable’ sport and Promoters have not moved with the times and modernised the sport for new and demanding fans who have lots of other leisure-time options available and want more for their hard earned cash than 15 minutes of entertainment in substandard run down stadia. I really hope, but I’m not convinced, that when this pandemic crisis is over and if, and it’s a big if, the sport can be salvaged from the wreckage, that anything will fundamentally change for the better. 

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4 hours ago, DC2 said:

 

Good points, but even MMA is promoted as family friendly at grass roots level.

I’m surprised no one has manufactured “speedway bikes” for kids, normal bikes that resemble speedway bikes and developed little leagues for bike riding.

 

MMA became more family friendly thanks to the continued development of its rules and operations.

UFC originally had limited rules mismatched fights, soccer kicks to a ground opponent etc. It has forever evolved and then filtered down to grass roots level.

Say even 10-15 years ago it was brutal and I doubt many families would go. Guys would rock up at grass roots level not having a clue who they would be fighting.

Now kids go with their parents, women go out in groups and it's much more professional but its evolved over time speedway in its entirety is still the same as before 

Probably cant use UFC as an example to british speedway because UFC has all the stars but grass roots UKMMA is similar to speedway 

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9 minutes ago, cityrebel said:

Will the clubs that survive have the funds to pay the 'top' riders. So many people will lose their jobs and a night at the speedway will be well down their priorities. I hope the sport can survive, but like life, it will never be the same again.

I think there will be one league and semi pro at least till the world settles down again ,what ever happens I think there will be many riders retiring if for no other reason than 18mths inactivity .Those the wrong side of 35yrs old will find it hard to pick up from where they left off ,once  a rider stops after a certain age it is hard to get back to where they were and somehow the danger of the sport becomes more apparent  .

Edited by FAST GATER
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