Corona virus

[IainB]

59 minutes ago, Wolfsbane said:

2020 Translation : 'Anyone who disagrees with me is a bully'.

You could almost predict who was going to "Like" this post... disagree away, keep it polite, civil and don't be obsessive and bait people

19 minutes ago, stevebrum said:

All viruses are transmitted the same way. They all attack the lungs and can affect other organs and systems plus they can  exacerbate any existing illness and medical condition plus are likely killers in the over 60s. 

We are returning to normal. Most places are now up and running . Death rates and hospital admissions are in the single figures throughout the UK. The R rate is irrelevant, ditto current positive tests if they don’t turn into deaths or hospital admissions which means those affected by positive tests aren’t needing medical intervention. We’ve never been in a better place with containing the virus. Long may that continue. These calls for lockdowns couldn’t be any more wrong. 

I have to say I find any attack on someone by calling them mentally ill or having a mental health issue or disability is beyond disgraceful, and have clearly lost the argument or high ground they once had.

I'd say we're a long long way from being "normal"... I don't know if you've noticed but we can't even go to the Speedway!

I totally agree with your point about attacking people by calling them mentally ill, I'm not quite sure who has done this though? I have said I suspect he is and I've suggested he see a doctor as I'm concerned for him if he has. I have asked him if he has Autism, which he displays all the signs of, he's not answered that question, which of course he is quite within his rights to do. If you think his behaviour is "normal" and his baiting of forum posters is acceptable that's a sad reflection on you.

[Grachan]

2 minutes ago, iainb said:

You could almost predict who was going to "Like" this post... disagree away, keep it polite, civil and don't be obsessive and bait people

I'd say we're a long long way from being "normal"... I don't know if you've noticed but we can't even go to the Speedway!

I totally agree with your point about attacking people by calling them mentally ill, I'm not quite sure who has done this though? I have said I suspect he is and I've suggested he see a doctor as I'm concerned for him if he has. I have asked him if he has Autism, which he displays all the signs of, he's not answered that question, which of course he is quite within his rights to do. If you think his behaviour is "normal" and his baiting of forum posters is acceptable that's a sad reflection on you.

I think you should lay off the "autism" stuff. It's not big. It's not clever. And it might offend an awful lot of people.

And having an interest in numbers and figures doesn't automatically make someone Rain Man.

[IainB]

6 minutes ago, Grachan said:

I think you should lay off the "autism" stuff. It's not big. It's not clever. And it might offend an awful lot of people.

And having an interest in numbers and figures doesn't automatically make someone Rain Man.

And I think he should lay off the Covid stuff and stop being an obsessive bully. Saying "having an interest in numbers and figures doesn't automatically make someone Rain Man" could be interpreted as being pretty offensive in itself and shows a complete lack of understanding of Autism. You've watched Rain Man that's your benchmark?

I only ask if he is Autistic as then I could possibly understand his behaviour and adapt my interaction with him. If he isn't then he's just a rude, obsessive, cantankerous man who just won't accept anybody else's opinion or point of view.

[BWitcher]

9 minutes ago, iainb said:

And I think he should lay off the Covid stuff and stop being an obsessive bully. Saying "having an interest in numbers and figures doesn't automatically make someone Rain Man" could be interpreted as being pretty offensive in itself and shows a complete lack of understanding of Autism. You've watched Rain Man that's your benchmark?

I only ask if he is Autistic as then I could possibly understand his behaviour and adapt my interaction with him. If he isn't then he's just a rude, obsessive, cantankerous man who just won't accept anybody else's opinion or point of view.

You really need to stop talking about yourself in this fashion.

Edited August 18, 2020 by BWitcher

[DC2]

22 hours ago, iainb said:

Is it just me or is this behaviour just beyond bizarre... I genuinely think this guy needs help. Does anybody on this forum actually know BWitcher in person? Because I think you need to carry out an intervention. I can't make up my mind whether he's a bully or mentally ill, maybe a bit of both. PLEASE! this guy needs your help.

BWitcher I plead with you, please go see a doctor... when the NHS reopens of course

Bwitcher is right about Covid and he has given compelling arguments, citing government figures.

Those who argue with him cite opinions, not facts, and consequently they are poor debaters and ultimately resort to insults rather than admit that they are wrong.

[stevebrum]

55 minutes ago, Grachan said:

Agree on all three point, but particularly the second one.

There is too much emphasis now on positive test numbers, but these are wholly dependent on who decides to have a test and gives no indication on how serious the case is.

The figures we need to know are how many people get it serious enough to have to go into hospital and how many die. Without that it is just another virus.

Absolutely agree.

39 minutes ago, iainb said:

I'd say we're a long long way from being "normal"... I don't know if you've noticed but we can't even go to the Speedway!

I totally agree with your point about attacking people by calling them mentally ill, I'm not quite sure who has done this though? I have said I suspect he is and I've suggested he see a doctor as I'm concerned for him if he has. I have asked him if he has Autism, which he displays all the signs of, he's not answered that question, which of course he is quite within his rights to do. If you think his behaviour is "normal" and his baiting of forum posters is acceptable that's a sad reflection on you.

You started so well then descended into more personal comments.

Yes we are a long way from ‘normal’ but it’s started to happen but likely to be halted with more fake and completely unneeded lockdowns.

What you ‘suspect’ of someone is a personal thought and an attack on someone. Since when is it ok to attack someone even if they were Autistic ?

If someone quotes stats and figures you can choose to believe them or not. That’s your choice. Personally speaking it’s hard to argue against those unless you can counter balance with facts that contradict them. Otherwise you are just putting your own opinion on those stats.

Why should anybody confirm or deny anything personal about themselves to you?? That’s completely unacceptable and not needed.

You suspect someone to be black, is it ok to say you write like a black man then?

you suspect someone to be gay, is it ok to say your responses come across like a gay person??

Personally speaking you have already lost the argument when you start calling out traits of other posters. 

Do I know Bwitcher? Yes we have met at Speedway many times. 

Do I agree with him? Ask him or anyone who has a history on this and other forums and we have had many a debate and very often disagree!

He posts a lot of factual information that I agree with. According to you that’s a “sad reflection of you” (me).

So basically you seem to be saying if I agree with him then you won’t debate sensibly or respectfully with me which clearly is a sad reflection of you also. 

Edited August 18, 2020 by stevebrum
Added words

[BluPanther]

Living with viruses is completely normal, always has been, always will be...

[IainB]

1 hour ago, stevebrum said:

Absolutely agree.

You started so well then descended into more personal comments.

If you live by the sword then you have to be prepared to die by the sword

Yes we are a long way from ‘normal’ but it’s started to happen but likely to be halted with more fake and completely unneeded lockdowns.

What you ‘suspect’ of someone is a personal thought and an attack on someone. Since when is it ok to attack someone even if they were Autistic ?

Once again... I'm not attacking him for being Autistic, I'm enquiring if he is Autistic so I can adjust the way I interact with him

If someone quotes stats and figures you can choose to believe them or not. That’s your choice. Personally speaking it’s hard to argue against those unless you can counter balance with facts that contradict them. Otherwise you are just putting your own opinion on those stats.

Again... I don't really care about the numbers, I only really care about how Covid is effecting Speedway

Why should anybody confirm or deny anything personal about themselves to you?? That’s completely unacceptable and not needed.

Again... they're not obliged to, I'm enquiring if he is Autistic so I can adjust the way I interact with him

You suspect someone to be black, is it ok to say you write like a black man then?

Irrelevant, possibly racist

you suspect someone to be gay, is it ok to say your responses come across like a gay person??

Irrelevant, possibly homophobic

Personally speaking you have already lost the argument when you start calling out traits of other posters. 

There is no argument

Do I know Bwitcher? Yes we have met at Speedway many times. 

And did he turn out to be a 12 year old schoolgirl... because that's the way he's acting

Do I agree with him? Ask him or anyone who has a history on this and other forums and we have had many a debate and very often disagree!

Irrelevant

He posts a lot of factual information that I agree with. According to you that’s a “sad reflection of you” (me).

Agree with him all you like, are there such things as facts these days? The "facts" he posts is not the issue I have with him, the issue I have is his baiting and rudeness to others on this forum

So basically you seem to be saying if I agree with him then you won’t debate sensibly or respectfully with me which clearly is a sad reflection of you also. 

Again... I won't debate with anybody that calls me a "Cretin", "Idiot" and "Stupid" or brings the death of my Father into an argument just to "win" a point, all things this sick individual has done

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by iainb

[The Third Man]

On 8/16/2020 at 6:24 PM, chris4gillian said:

So you're now saying that lockdown is the cause of deaths?  Really???

If that's the case, you best tell the whole world they're wrong so that lives can be saved.  

You do realise that have been and will be deaths caused by people not receiving treatment, not getting a diagnosis for cancer and other treatable diseases during the lockdown don't you

Cancer care has been set back years because people have not been to hospital, and yes thousand's are expected to die, not just of cancer but other very treatable diseases

[BWitcher]

On 3/15/2020 at 7:17 PM, iainb said:

I take anybody dying from a lung disease seriously. I watched my dad die from IPF 2 years ago and wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy

 

On 3/15/2020 at 7:20 PM, BWitcher said:

I must have missed you banging on about it in previous years.

Got any quotes to share?

"The blummin flu" doesn't seem the words of someone who takes it seriously personally.

 

On 3/15/2020 at 7:21 PM, iainb said:

Sick

Despite your constant accusations I have never once mentioned your dad.

You brought him up and concocted a fantasy I'd somehow mocked you about him.

The discussion was regarding the flu and how tens of thousands had died in previous years from flu/pneumonia related illnesses and nobody had batted an eyelid. You claimed you took it seriously, I stated you hadn't mentioned it previously. 

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by BWitcher

[IainB]

Total lack of empathy... another symptom

[chunky]

45 minutes ago, The Third Man said:

You do realise that have been and will be deaths caused by people not receiving treatment, not getting a diagnosis for cancer and other treatable diseases during the lockdown don't you

Cancer care has been set back years because people have not been to hospital, and yes thousand's are expected to die, not just of cancer but other very treatable diseases

Agree 100%. My wife is a Type 2 diabetic, and was rushed into hospital in a diabetic coma during the lockdown here. She was in a critical condition for several days.

They kept her in for a couple of weeks, and even though she was "better" when she came home, they still hadn't been able to stabilise her levels completely. Twice I had to call an ambulance when she lost consciousness from sudden extreme drops, and she came close several other times.

The big problem was that she needed to see an endocrinologist, but of course, under lockdown they weren't seeing anyone. So, I know how close I came to losing my wife during lockdown, and we can be sure there were plenty of people who weren't - and won't be - quite so fortunate.

[chunky]

27 minutes ago, iainb said:

Total lack of empathy... another symptom

Absolutely not. What he - and others of us (including me) is asking is this;

Why is everybody so worried about a virus that, while it IS a major concern (and BWitcher has said that on many occasions), and the number of infections is extremely high, the fatalities are nowhere near the level of other common diseases/illnesses; diseases and illnesses to which the majority of people don't give a second thought?

This isn't a competition. People don't need to claim that Covid-19 is worse (is causing more deaths) than the flu, than cancer, than heart disease. Because it isn't...

[IainB]

24 minutes ago, chunky said:

Absolutely not. What he - and others of us (including me) is asking is this;

Why is everybody so worried about a virus that, while it IS a major concern (and BWitcher has said that on many occasions), and the number of infections is extremely high, the fatalities are nowhere near the level of other common diseases/illnesses; diseases and illnesses to which the majority of people don't give a second thought?

This isn't a competition. People don't need to claim that Covid-19 is worse (is causing more deaths) than the flu, than cancer, than heart disease. Because it isn't...

No, no, no. What he said in a direct reply to me saying i take people dying of lung disease very seriously as I watched my dad die from one was:

"I must have missed you banging on about it in previous years.

Got any quotes to share?"

That, as he has a habit of pointing out, is a fact and is evidence. Banging on about my dad dying... Let's just let that hang there for a bit... Banging on about my dad dying.

A direct reply...

Edited August 18, 2020 by iainb

[chunky]

13 minutes ago, iainb said:

No, no, no. What he said in a direct reply to me saying i take people dying of lung disease very seriously as I watched my dad die from one was:

"I must have missed you banging on about it in previous years.

Got any quotes to share?"

That, as he has a habit of pointing out, is a fact and is evidence. Banging on about my dad dying... Let's just let that sit there for a bit... Banging on about my dad dying.

A direct reply...

BWitcher does come across as harsh sometimes, I will admit. However, reading exactly what you said above, I can see that he said exactly what I said in my post.

I'm sorry for what you had to go through. However, it was no worse than what I went through watching my father die. Or what anyone else suffers in that situation.

What he said was that, prior to your father's situation, you never gave a second thought to lung disease. Or to those who suffered and passed from it. That is what is happening now with Covid-19; people are scared, and think it's worse than anything else out there

The trouble is that, because something happens so someone we love, we have a tendency to take it personally, and even make it personal.

I get tired of people claiming that cancer is the worst thing. Cancer is no worse than any other ailment that causes suffering and death. Nor is lung disease. And before you say anything, I lost both parents and my grandmother to cancer.

People say that losing someone you love is the worst thing in life. It's not, and the cause(s) of their death is irrelevant. The worst thing in life is watching someone you love suffer....

[BWitcher]

4 minutes ago, chunky said:

BWitcher does come across as harsh sometimes, I will admit. However, reading exactly what you said above, I can see that he said exactly what I said in my post.

I'm sorry for what you had to go through. However, it was no worse than what I went through watching my father die. Or what anyone else suffers in that situation.

What he said was that, prior to your father's situation, you never gave a second thought to lung disease. Or to those who suffered and passed from it. That is what is happening now with Covid-19; people are scared, and think it's worse than anything else out there

The trouble is that, because something happens so someone we love, we have a tendency to take it personally, and even make it personal.

I get tired of people claiming that cancer is the worst thing. Cancer is no worse than any other ailment that causes suffering and death. Nor is lung disease. And before you say anything, I lost both parents and my grandmother to cancer.

People say that losing someone you love is the worst thing in life. It's not, and the cause(s) of their death is irrelevant. The worst thing in life is watching someone you love suffer....

Not quite.. if you read the prior conversation he was mocking the 'blummin flu' and refusing to accept it led to deaths.

He then introduced his father into the equation. Of course that is a sad event.

However, that is not something I was at any point ever discussing. Just highlighting he hadn't an issue with other viruses at any point previously on the thread..  

He wrongly decided I was referring to his father's death for whatever reason.

Edited August 18, 2020 by BWitcher

[BWitcher]

On 3/15/2020 at 7:09 PM, iainb said:

If you look back through the thread you'll see I took it deadly seriously from day 1 advising the screensport bloke to watch the BBC documentary... All I've seen you do is bang on about the blummin flu!

The post I referred too.

He took exception to me pointing out how many people died every year from flu/pneumonia etc.

Just as he is taking exception again now that deaths involving flu/pneumonia are 7.6 x higher (and growing) than those involving Covid-19 each week.

[chunky]

11 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

He took exception to me pointing out how many people died every year from flu/pneumonia etc.

Just as he is taking exception again now that deaths involving flu/pneumonia are 7.6 x higher (and growing) than those involving Covid-19 each week.

That is why I pointed out that other things are "worse" than Covid-19, including the flu.

[IainB]

45 minutes ago, chunky said:

What he said was that, prior to your father's situation, you never gave a second thought to lung disease. Or to those who suffered and passed from it. That is what is happening now with Covid-19; people are scared, and think it's worse than anything else out there

The trouble is that, because something happens so someone we love, we have a tendency to take it personally, and even make it personal.

I get tired of people claiming that cancer is the worst thing. Cancer is no worse than any other ailment that causes suffering and death. Nor is lung disease. And before you say anything, I lost both parents and my grandmother to cancer.

People say that losing someone you love is the worst thing in life. It's not, and the cause(s) of their death is irrelevant. The worst thing in life is watching someone you love suffer....

This is not what he said at all, what he said was: "I must have missed you banging on about it in previous years. Got any quotes to share?" as a direct reply to my post of: "I take anybody dying from a lung disease seriously. I watched my dad die from IPF 2 years ago and wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy". It's there for all of us to read, take a look.

What he at no point has said is "prior to your father's situation, you never gave a second thought to lung disease", so I'm not sure where you got that from? And how you'd know what he thought I was thinking prior to my Father's death is also a mystery.

I'll agree with the rest of your thoughts though

41 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

Not quite.. if you read the prior conversation he was mocking the 'blummin flu' and refusing to accept it led to deaths.

He then introduced his father into the equation. Of course that is a sad event.

However, that is not something I was at any point ever discussing. Just highlighting he hadn't an issue with other viruses at any point previously on the thread..  

He wrongly decided I was referring to his father's death for whatever reason.

I'm going to break off from my standard reply to you to try and re-engage with you:

At no point did I mock the flu, just because I used the word blummin as a pre-fix was to try and keep it light as I could see you were getting out of control. Thanks for acknowledging the death of my Father as a sad event, I almost said the same thing to my mum as we were both holding his hand as he was gasping for his last breath. It's the first hint of empathy you've shown.

I decided you were referring to my Fathers death for this reason:

Your direct reply to my post of "I take anybody dying from a lung disease seriously. I watched my dad die from IPF 2 years ago and wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy"

was

""I must have missed you banging on about it in previous years. Got any quotes to share?""

Edited August 18, 2020 by iainb

[BWitcher]

11 minutes ago, iainb said:

This is not what he said at all, what he said was: "I must have missed you banging on about it in previous years. Got any quotes to share?" as a direct reply to my post of: "I take anybody dying from a lung disease seriously. I watched my dad die from IPF 2 years ago and wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy". It's there for all of us to read, take a look.

What he at no point has said is "prior to your father's situation, you never gave a second thought to lung disease", so I'm not sure where you got that from? And how you'd know what he thought I was thinking prior to my Father's death is also a mystery.

I'll agree with the rest of your thoughts though

I'm going to break off from my standard reply to you to try and re-engage with you:

At no point did I mock the flu, just because I used the word blummin as a pre-fix was to try and keep it light as I could see you were getting out of control. Thanks for acknowledging the death of my Father as a sad event, I almost said the same thing to my mum as we were both holding his hand as he was gasping for his last breath.

I decided you were referring to my Fathers death for this reason:

Your direct reply to my post of "I must have missed you banging on about it in previous years. Got any quotes to share?" as a direct reply to my post of: "I take anybody dying from a lung disease seriously. I watched my dad die from IPF 2 years ago and wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy"

was

""I must have missed you banging on about it in previous years. Got any quotes to share?""

It's quite simple.

The discussion was about flu and people dying. 

You took objection, referring to it as the blummin flu.

Facts were brought into it (number of people who actually die involving the 'blummin flu'), you realised you were ridiculously wrong and tried to use your father as a get out.. without stopping to pause and realise you were the one ridiculing an illness, not me. 

I remained talking about the topic under discussion, which was influenza re-iterating the point that nobody batted an eyelid when tens of thousands died each winter.

Chunky is quite capable of reading and understanding that.

You've since made claims that I 'brought the death of your father' into an argument, which we can clearly see is false. 

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by BWitcher