Norden Stadium

[iris123]

Was a new crime series started in German tv yesterday with some good shots at Norden of some speedway and presumably a drone filming from way up above the stadium which I thought was quite impressive stuff. The rest of the programme was not so interesting !!! From 50 minutes in for a couple of minutes

https://www.zdf.de/filme/ostfrieslandkrimis/ostfriesengrab-102.html

[Ray Stadia]

6 hours ago, iris123 said:

Was a new crime series started in German tv yesterday with some good shots at Norden of some speedway and presumably a drone filming from way up above the stadium which I thought was quite impressive stuff. The rest of the programme was not so interesting !!! From 50 minutes in for a couple of minutes

https://www.zdf.de/filme/ostfrieslandkrimis/ostfriesengrab-102.html

The 1983 World Final venue, I really enjoyed that World Final on TV and the birth of the GM engine! 

[stevehone]

went there and saw Egon blow everyone away in '83

[willstaxi]

1 hour ago, stevehone said:

went there and saw Egon blow everyone away in '83

So did I and unlike most people I loved it

[steve roberts]

I was there also...remember the long coach trip from Amsterdam where we were based most of all!

[geoff100]

They could have watered the track !

[RobMcCaffery]

14 hours ago, Ray Stadia said:

The 1983 World Final venue, I really enjoyed that World Final on TV and the birth of the GM engine! 

It was different if you were there. Norden is (or was) a remarkable situation. A half-decent, large if open stadium but stuck in a field (complete with cow pats) in a remote part of a remote town in the far north west of Germany. As others have said, most supporters had to stay miles away in a different country.

As I got out of the car on arriving, just avoiding a fresh 'wilkommen in Deutschland" gift from an incontinent cow I could only think. "Two years ago we were at Wembley, Now this. How low can the sport be dragged?" By later German standards this was sadly a high point for them, bar Munich. 

As for the meeting it was clear that the whole thing had been set up for a Muller victory. The track was perfect for him and suddenly a man who had done little to enhance his speedway, as opposed to long track reputation outside his own country was cruising to victory. It felt false and an insult to the World Championship. I felt cheated. 

 Wembley, Malmo, Gothenburg, Katowice, The LA Coliseum and this - let down totally by the Germans who got what they wanted - a world final of their own, fitting their own Sunday afternoon amateur sport standards and featuring their own winner..

Yes Egon was a superstar at long track, but at speedway his reputation internationally was lower than poor old Szczakiel, the man found guilty of being the 'wrong' world champion....

(This by the way from someone who enjoys his journeys to Germany - just not for speedway...)

 

Edited February 17, 2020 by RobMcCaffery

[andout]

31 minutes ago, RobMcCaffery said:

It was different if you were there. Norden is (or was) a remarkable situation. A half-decent, large if open stadium but stuck in a field (complete with cow pats) in a remote part of a remote town in the far north west of Germany. As others have said, most supporters had to stay miles away in a different country.

As I got out of the car on arriving, just avoiding a fresh 'wilkommen in Deutschland" gift from an incontinent cow I could only think. "Two years ago we were at Wembley, Now this. How low can the sport be dragged?" By later German standards this was sadly a high point for them, bar Munich. 

As for the meeting it was clear that the whole thing had been set up for a Muller victory. The track was perfect for him and suddenly a man who had done little to enhance his speedway, as opposed to long track reputation outside his own country was cruising to victory. It felt false and an insult to the World Championship. I felt cheated. 

 Wembley, Malmo, Gothenburg, Katowice, The LA Coliseum and this - let down totally by the Germans who got what they wanted - a world final of their own, fitting their own Sunday afternoon amateur sport standards and featuring their own winner..

Yes Egon was a superstar at long track, but at speedway his reputation internationally was lower than poor old Szczakiel, the man found guilty of being the 'wrong' world champion....

(This by the way from someone who enjoys his journeys to Germany - just not for speedway...)

 

Good one Rob......Thanks....I now have a picture of an "Incontinent cow" in my mind.......Thanks for the laugh!!!

[iris123]

Slightly unfair on Egon. There was a previous final hen he was in with a fair chance of a rostrum spot think. Rain affected, Gothenburg, when he had 5 from his first 2 rides....But he never concentrated on speedway

The stadium is a complete mystery to me how they built such a giant stadium out in that area and kept it going all these years 

Edited February 17, 2020 by iris123

[RobMcCaffery]

1 hour ago, iris123 said:

Slightly unfair on Egon. There was a previous final hen he was in with a fair chance of a rostrum spot think. Rain affected, Gothenburg, when he had 5 from his first 2 rides....But he never concentrated on speedway

The stadium is a complete mystery to me how they built such a giant stadium out in that area and kept it going all these years 

I'll concede that one to you but while he could have been competitive if he'd focussed he took advantage of a situation where it was laid on a plate for him to win. He still needed the skill to complete the deal.

I know Egon has a high profile in Germany through his singing and drag work but did he ever use his title win to boost German speedway? 

Regarding Norden, the fundamemtal point is that there was no hurry to stage another final there.If people enjoyed it then fine. Enjoyment's a good thing. I just remember the relief the following year to see a truly great speedway rider (and person), Erik Gundersen, win at the Ullevi Stadium. That felt 'real'.

 

[iris123]

32 minutes ago, RobMcCaffery said:

I'll concede that one to you but while he could have been competitive if he'd focussed he took advantage of a situation where it was laid on a plate for him to win. He still needed the skill to complete the deal.

I know Egon has a high profile in Germany through his singing and drag work but did he ever use his title win to boost German speedway? 

Regarding Norden, the fundamemtal point is that there was no hurry to stage another final there.If people enjoyed it then fine. Enjoyment's a good thing. I just remember the relief the following year to see a truly great speedway rider (and person), Erik Gundersen, win at the Ullevi Stadium. That felt 'real'.

 

I can't really answer that one at the time, as I wasn't here, in fact, at the time Egon won his title I had lost my interest in the sport, to some extent. Think I only went toa couple of meetings in '83 and came back as an interested spectator in '84. He did have a big spat with Peter Schroeck's father on the internet a few years back(he has had quite a number of arguments on the internet over the years), and it seems this was one of the reasons. Schroeck senior accuses him of not doing enough as world champ.

But over the years he is regularly on tv and promoting himself, but also speedway. Apart from Smoli in Bavaria nobody else seems to manage to get on tv, as often

Then again, as I have mentioned before, the DMU stated that there was no gain from Nicki winning his last title. No boost in attendances etc. But Denmark have had so many titles

[RobMcCaffery]

If he mentions speedway in his public appearances then I can't see a problem. Out of interest, how influential is Schroeck's father over there?

 

[uk_martin]

I don't buy the "set up for Müller" argument. Prior to the World Final, Erik Gundersen held the track record. In the World Final, Gundersen's old track record was beaten in every heat. That means everyone was able to ride quickly. Müller was simply quicker than everyone else. Not a fact that sits comfortably with the "British are best" brigade or those with a grudge against riders who don't ride in the British leagues. But that's not something that's changed from then to now, either.

[Grachan]

18 hours ago, RobMcCaffery said:

It was different if you were there. Norden is (or was) a remarkable situation. A half-decent, large if open stadium but stuck in a field (complete with cow pats) in a remote part of a remote town in the far north west of Germany. As others have said, most supporters had to stay miles away in a different country.

As I got out of the car on arriving, just avoiding a fresh 'wilkommen in Deutschland" gift from an incontinent cow I could only think. "Two years ago we were at Wembley, Now this. How low can the sport be dragged?" By later German standards this was sadly a high point for them, bar Munich. 

As for the meeting it was clear that the whole thing had been set up for a Muller victory. The track was perfect for him and suddenly a man who had done little to enhance his speedway, as opposed to long track reputation outside his own country was cruising to victory. It felt false and an insult to the World Championship. I felt cheated. 

 Wembley, Malmo, Gothenburg, Katowice, The LA Coliseum and this - let down totally by the Germans who got what they wanted - a world final of their own, fitting their own Sunday afternoon amateur sport standards and featuring their own winner..

Yes Egon was a superstar at long track, but at speedway his reputation internationally was lower than poor old Szczakiel, the man found guilty of being the 'wrong' world champion....

(This by the way from someone who enjoys his journeys to Germany - just not for speedway...)

 

I don't see how the track was perfect for him and yet nobody else could apparently ride it. If he was handed any advantage at all it was probably through his engine, rather than the track. Muller was a worthy champion though. And, yes, I was there.

I was also at the 1976 final and Muller was pretty sensational in that one, too, coming close to getting 11 points. Hardly the form of someone who had done little to enhance his speedway reputation. Also, if you watch the Ivan Mauger documentary, Ivan's wife talks about how Ivan used to get very stressed about trying to do things that Muller was doing - so he can't have been that bad.

He was also, perhaps, fortunate that his home country World Final fitted nicely after Penhall retiring and Nielsen/Gundersen still not quite ready for World domination. But, in that final, he was so dominant that you cannot dispute his legitimacy. Also, before the final, the general consensus on our bus was that Muller was favourite to win, and, when my friend got him in the sweepstake, everyone groaned and tried to swap with him.

The venue itself was an odd one, though. Not so much the stadium itself, but its location. I went on a Speedway tour and, initially, we were put into people's houses, with the bus parked in a cul-de-sac. Some people (mainly Belle Vue fans as I remember) refused to leave the bus and insisted we were put in a hotel. Eventually we were moved to a town somewhere - I don't even know what town it was! - and put in a hotel, which, I recall, was a long way from the track.

[OveFundinFan]

19 hours ago, RobMcCaffery said:

.As I got out of the car on arriving, just avoiding a fresh 'wilkommen in Deutschland" gift from an incontinent cow I could only think. "Two years ago we were at Wembley, Now this. How low can the sport be dragged?" By later German standards this was sadly a high point for them, bar Munich. 

 

Laughed my socks off!

[Terry]

2 hours ago, uk_martin said:

I don't buy the "set up for Müller" argument. Prior to the World Final, Erik Gundersen held the track record. In the World Final, Gundersen's old track record was beaten in every heat. That means everyone was able to ride quickly. Müller was simply quicker than everyone else. Not a fact that sits comfortably with the "British are best" brigade or those with a grudge against riders who don't ride in the British leagues. But that's not something that's changed from then to now, either.

I remember the TV footage of Carter and Sanders muttering to each other about how Muller can be so good. It was like they'd never heard of him before!

[Ray Stadia]

51 minutes ago, Terry said:

I remember the TV footage of Carter and Sanders muttering to each other about how Muller can be so good. It was like they'd never heard of him before!

I also remember Dave Lanning interviewing Bruce Penhall and Bruce said he had crossed the boarder (German I presume) in the boot of a car! 

[Terry]

33 minutes ago, Ray Stadia said:

I also remember Dave Lanning interviewing Bruce Penhall and Bruce said he had crossed the boarder (German I presume) in the boot of a car! 

Sounds like what Len Silver did with Zenon Plech. Going back to Norden I recall Bruce wearing a Kenny Carter rosette!

[RobMcCaffery]

5 hours ago, uk_martin said:

I don't buy the "set up for Müller" argument. Prior to the World Final, Erik Gundersen held the track record. In the World Final, Gundersen's old track record was beaten in every heat. That means everyone was able to ride quickly. Müller was simply quicker than everyone else. Not a fact that sits comfortably with the "British are best" brigade or those with a grudge against riders who don't ride in the British leagues. But that's not something that's changed from then to now, either.

Were you there? If the track had been set up for Muller then having the fastest times would prove, not disprove the point. 

There were plenty of people with this view on the terraces. Muller had been good at speedway bit not that good, either before or after. So, how was it that suddenly he was faster than the world's elite.....for one day?

[RobMcCaffery]

4 hours ago, Grachan said:

I don't see how the track was perfect for him and yet nobody else could apparently ride it. If he was handed any advantage at all it was probably through his engine, rather than the track. Muller was a worthy champion though. And, yes, I was there.

I was also at the 1976 final and Muller was pretty sensational in that one, too, coming close to getting 11 points. Hardly the form of someone who had done little to enhance his speedway reputation. Also, if you watch the Ivan Mauger documentary, Ivan's wife talks about how Ivan used to get very stressed about trying to do things that Muller was doing - so he can't have been that bad.

He was also, perhaps, fortunate that his home country World Final fitted nicely after Penhall retiring and Nielsen/Gundersen still not quite ready for World domination. But, in that final, he was so dominant that you cannot dispute his legitimacy. Also, before the final, the general consensus on our bus was that Muller was favourite to win, and, when my friend got him in the sweepstake, everyone groaned and tried to swap with him.

The venue itself was an odd one, though. Not so much the stadium itself, but its location. I went on a Speedway tour and, initially, we were put into people's houses, with the bus parked in a cul-de-sac. Some people (mainly Belle Vue fans as I remember) refused to leave the bus and insisted we were put in a hotel. Eventually we were moved to a town somewhere - I don't even know what town it was! - and put in a hotel, which, I recall, was a long way from the track.

I didn't say nobody else could ride it . If having the track prepared to favour the home rider and to allow maximum track practice isn't an influence why do countries, especially the Poles but apart from Britain do it? 

Edited February 18, 2020 by RobMcCaffery