Ronnie Russell

[steve roberts]

51 minutes ago, Triple.H. said:

Yes

But he signed Peter Schroek too. If I remember correctly.

So 50% of the first influx of EEC riders at NL level weren't really upto the job.

HenryW must be top of the averages for fast typing

That's true but at least it gave one of my favourites 'Razzer' a team slot...someone who I always thought got a rough deal due to the points limit.

[RobMcCaffery]

8 hours ago, steve roberts said:

That's true but at least it gave one of my favourites 'Razzer' a team slot...someone who I always thought got a rough deal due to the points limit.

I could not condone Peter's signing and he was gone by the time I was back at Rue House working for Ronnie. Ironically he seems to be doing his 'bit' now although I was rather surprised to see his name re-appear a few years back. 

We had some hard times but Jens undoubtedly saved the club and his efforts with Glen Baxter to haul the Rockets over the finishing line in the later heats at Hoddesdon made for some exciting finishes as they fought to dig us out of whatever hole we had fallen into. 

The promoters should have been looking into keeping a minimum number of British riders. Even today Poland and Sweden practice having a minimum number of their riders. We could admit foreign riders but still limit their numbers. If it can be done in 2020 it could have been in 1990. Now, here's a controversial point. We had no problem letting Aussies ride in tier two yet people objected to EEC riders when the latter had the right to race here while the former, unless they had patriality, rode here as a privilege, not right. 

The theory was that instead of employing Aussies, and the few remaining Kiwis we should be using riders from Denmark, Sweden and the other EEC countries. 

The problem was allowing too many riders of low ability to replace British kids, but then speedway has always been short-sighted like that where a theoretically glamorous foreigner was seen as better box office than a local kid.

If only more promoters had taken John Berry's lead with his championship-winning team of Suffolk riders plus Billy Sanders who was seen as an adopted son of the county. There really is no substitute for the local hero, as we at Rye House knew only too well with Karl Fiala, Bob Garrad, Kelvin Mullarkey in particular, while not being from Hertfordshire were from neighbouring parts. 

Jens was also 'one of us'. He and his family mixed socially with the supporters and his country of origin was totally irrelevant to us. 

Ronnie opened a door but wasn't responsible for those let through.

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by RobMcCaffery

[steve roberts]

7 hours ago, RobMcCaffery said:

I could not condone Peter's signing and he was gone by the time I was back at Rue House working for Ronnie. Ironically he seems to be doing his 'bit' now although I was rather surprised to see his name re-appear a few years back. 

We had some hard times but Jens undoubtedly saved the club and his efforts with Glen Baxter to haul the Rockets over the finishing line in the later heats at Hoddesdon made for some exciting finishes as they fought to dig us out of whatever hole we had fallen into. 

The promoters should have been looking into keeping a minimum number of British riders. Even today Poland and Sweden practice having a minimum number of their riders. We could admit foreign riders but still limit their numbers. If it can be done in 2020 it could have been in 1990. Now, here's a controversial point. We had no problem letting Aussies ride in tier two yet people objected to EEC riders when the latter had the right to race here while the former, unless they had patriality, rode here as a privilege, not right. 

The theory was that instead of employing Aussies, and the few remaining Kiwis we should be using riders from Denmark, Sweden and the other EEC countries. 

The problem was allowing too many riders of low ability to replace British kids, but then speedway has always been short-sighted like that where a theoretically glamorous foreigner was seen as better box office than a local kid.

If only more promoters had taken John Berry's lead with his championship-winning team of Suffolk riders plus Billy Sanders who was seen as an adopted son of the county. There really is no substitute for the local hero, as we at Rye House knew only too well with Karl Fiala, Bob Garrad, Kelvin Mullarkey in particular, while not being from Hertfordshire were from neighbouring parts. 

Jens was also 'one of us'. He and his family mixed socially with the supporters and his country of origin was totally irrelevant to us. 

Ronnie opened a door but wasn't responsible for those let through.

 

Agree with most if not all of that Rob!

[iris123]

7 hours ago, RobMcCaffery said:

I could not condone Peter's signing and he was gone by the time I was back at Rue House working for Ronnie. Ironically he seems to be doing his 'bit' now although I was rather surprised to see his name re-appear a few years back. 

We had some hard times but Jens undoubtedly saved the club and his efforts with Glen Baxter to haul the Rockets over the finishing line in the later heats at Hoddesdon made for some exciting finishes as they fought to dig us out of whatever hole we had fallen into. 

The promoters should have been looking into keeping a minimum number of British riders. Even today Poland and Sweden practice having a minimum number of their riders. We could admit foreign riders but still limit their numbers. If it can be done in 2020 it could have been in 1990. Now, here's a controversial point. We had no problem letting Aussies ride in tier two yet people objected to EEC riders when the latter had the right to race here while the former, unless they had patriality, rode here as a privilege, not right. 

The theory was that instead of employing Aussies, and the few remaining Kiwis we should be using riders from Denmark, Sweden and the other EEC countries. 

The problem was allowing too many riders of low ability to replace British kids, but then speedway has always been short-sighted like that where a theoretically glamorous foreigner was seen as better box office than a local kid.

If only more promoters had taken John Berry's lead with his championship-winning team of Suffolk riders plus Billy Sanders who was seen as an adopted son of the county. There really is no substitute for the local hero, as we at Rye House knew only too well with Karl Fiala, Bob Garrad, Kelvin Mullarkey in particular, while not being from Hertfordshire were from neighbouring parts. 

Jens was also 'one of us'. He and his family mixed socially with the supporters and his country of origin was totally irrelevant to us. 

Ronnie opened a door but wasn't responsible for those let through.

 

Not correct on Aussie riders nor NZ. We had freedom of movement before the EEC and that was with our Commonwealth. Only if a country left the Commonwealth did they lose that right and on some cases caused us problems. I am thinking of the Asian people in was it Uganda who could have been left basically stateless as Idi Amin didn’t give them citizenship there. But also Australians were basically British ,as they had since year 1 always been affiliated to the ACU even before speedway came to the UK. It wasn’t until the 70s that they got their own qualifiers into the World Championship

[RobMcCaffery]

4 hours ago, iris123 said:

Not correct on Aussie riders nor NZ. We had freedom of movement before the EEC and that was with our Commonwealth. Only if a country left the Commonwealth did they lose that right and on some cases caused us problems. I am thinking of the Asian people in was it Uganda who could have been left basically stateless as Idi Amin didn’t give them citizenship there. But also Australians were basically British ,as they had since year 1 always been affiliated to the ACU even before speedway came to the UK. It wasn’t until the 70s that they got their own qualifiers into the World Championship

Thank you for a thoughtful response. My understanding was that all such prior arrangements, known as "Commonwealth Preference" were superseded by EEC regulations. Certainly products such as Anchor Butter and New Zealand Lamb were affected by this. The question of "Britishness" is answered by patriality. I suspect that the separation of Australian and New Zealand from the British ACU may have been a recognition of the changes and regularised an anomaly. 

As I said earlier there were aspects of our attempt to retain our special links with the Commonwealth and forge new ones with the EEC could be classified under the 'have cake and eat it principle". Either way we did manage to avoid what could have been a traumatic and expensive legal battle by granting EEC riders right of entry. 

We shall never know for sure, nor what the future will bring since, apart from transitional legislation following our exit from the EU that may temporarily retain EU citizens' right to live and work here, will we be looking to restore Commonwealth Preference? Will the need for visas for Aussies and Kiwis continue or are they now too linked with Asia for the past to be recreated? Would they want to after the snub of 1973?

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by RobMcCaffery

[iris123]

Yes, but we also banned commuting Swedish riders in I think 1974 !! Wasn't it only Olle Nygren and Sören Sjösten who avoided a ban ?

Also nothing really to d with anything apart from bans, but we also banned foreign riders back in 1934 I think. Which at the time only affected US, Danish and German riders. Ray Tauser, Morian Hansen and Sebastian Roth

More controversial than anything was someone suggested Morian Hansen was banned post war. Which considering he had joined the RAF and was a war hero on our side, was a terrible decision, if true

Edited February 9, 2020 by iris123

[RobMcCaffery]

6 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Yes, but we also banned commuting Swedish riders in I think 1974 !! Wasn't it only Olle Nygren and Sören Sjösten who avoided a ban ?

Sweden didn't join the EEC until 1995.

 

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by RobMcCaffery

[iris123]

5 minutes ago, RobMcCaffery said:

Sweden didn't join the EEC until 1995.

 

 

Good point, which I didn't realise

[steve roberts]

Apparently during the winter of 1975/76 the NL (British League Division Two) applied to be able to use EEC riders but were turned down by the British League Management Committee.

[RobMcCaffery]

10 hours ago, iris123 said:

Good point, which I didn't realise

I'd forgotten. You prompted me to look it up. About the only significant speedway nations that were in the EEC when we joined was Germany. Denmark and Poland came much later.

[RobMcCaffery]

3 hours ago, steve roberts said:

Apparently during the winter of 1975/76 the NL (British League Division Two) applied to be able to use EEC riders but were turned down by the British League Management Committee.

I don't think people realise how much of a divide formed between the BL and NL, although 1975/6 was early. By the mid 80s the NL had its own offices  and administration and I believe the split could have gone much further. Having that application in rejected in 1975/6 may have sown the seed. 

 

[RobMcCaffery]

Regarding the wider issue of possible conflict between EEC employment law and speedway regulations in the late 80s I suspect this is a case for Humphrey Appleby,

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by RobMcCaffery

[Humphrey Appleby]

1 minute ago, RobMcCaffery said:

Regarding the wider issue of possible conflict between EEC employment law and speedway regulations in the late 80s I suspect this is a case for Humphrey Appleby,

Complete freedom of movement only came with the EU in 1993, at which point the BSPA would have no legal right to restrict EU riders in its competitions. Prior to that, I believe EEC workers had the legal right to employment in another EEC country if it could be demonstrated there were no local workers available who could do the job. 

So I'd guess the inclusion of Rasmussen was justified on the basis of there not being a suitable local No. 1 available, and of course Rasmussen was already riding in Britain. Peter Shroeck was perhaps a more dubious justification, but it seems the government was more lax about such things in those days and if there wasn't any objection from the BSPA or SRA then perhaps it was just rubber stamped. 

I never really understood though, why Commonwealth riders were considered morally acceptable in the NL and not European riders. I know many would have had patriality anyway, but there were plenty of Commonwealth riders of dubious quality filling NL teams long before Rasmussen was employed. 

Of course, the 'opening of the floodgates' coincided with a contraction in the BL down to 9 teams whereby a number of mid-level European riders suddenly became surplus to requirements. Didn't Preben Eriksen and a few others drop down into the NL at the same time from memory? 

Think it was just a combination of circumstances and economics that led to the influx of Europeans - don't think Ronnie Russell can really be blamed for that, and inevitably the league would have had to fall into line with employment law anyway. 

[RobMcCaffery]

Many thanks for the guidance HA. You bring out some very valid points. If it was so bad to hire Schroeck why was nobody complaining? Despite the views held by some supporters not all in speedway officialdom are fools. 

Regarding Commonwealth v EEC riders I'd suggest that the perception was still that the Auissies and Kiwis were 'us' while the Europeans were 'foreigners'. As you say, those with direct British links had patriality, the remainder without rights. I'd say the language and cultural links with the Aussies and Kiwis helped strengthen that view, despite the law.

The observation of the slump in BL numbers in the mid-80s is very valid with  lot of mediocre Europeans suddenly finding places at a premium.  At this point I have a confession to make. I might be to blame, not my erstwhile boss, Ron. 

I suppose I do have to take some of the blame. When Screen Sport approached KM Video to cover speedway on their new service in 1984 we naturally went for British League racing. However the BSPA believed that doing a deal with us for league racing would conflict with their deal with ITV for World of Sport. Faced with a golden opportunity to put league racing on TV for the first time I argued for coverage of the National League instead. My determined lobbying for my beloved NL won the argument. The NL was semi-detached from the BSPA then and they grabbed at the chance arguing that cable and satellite TV was narrowcasting rather than broadcasting! Suddenly I was in the position to put my decade and a half experience  as a fan of an NL team to good use!

After the first year of coverage in 1984 several BL tracks started looking at an NL, with a TV contract, that might be a better offer than the BL and we had the first mass switch. I remember Wimbledon manager Cyril Maidment telling me in an interview "We are moving ACROSS, not down".

After 1985 the NL was a completely different 'beast' and now a long way from its training origins. It was only later with Rasmussen and Schroeck's signings that the gates opened but by then the places once available for up and coming EEC riders in BL tracks were much reduced and with a pool of talent looking for places the NL was under incredible pressure and temptation to hire them. The NL was changed by the influx of tracks like Wimbledon and Hackneyand the return of Eastbourne and Exeter

Okay IT WAS MY FAULT I won't come quietly......

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by RobMcCaffery

[Shadders]

On 2/7/2020 at 10:24 AM, auntie doris said:

He likes pie n mash an all Chris

Keef

I like him even more now 

[Shadders]

On 2/7/2020 at 10:50 PM, Wee Eck said:

I thought that was Len Silver’s doing?

I remember him battling with the speedway authorities to get Rasmussen and Schroeck into the National League.

[Grachan]

My memory might be playing tricks on me, but from what I remember, didn't Rasmussen have a British wife or something like that, which was used to deem it acceptable? I think it was the signing of Shroek that was the really controversial one - strange though it seems now.

[Crabba59]

Having known big Ron for a long time and worked with him at different tracks he will always tell you he never broke the rules just bent them to suit....

[RobMcCaffery]

4 hours ago, Grachan said:

My memory might be playing tricks on me, but from what I remember, didn't Rasmussen have a British wife or something like that, which was used to deem it acceptable? I think it was the signing of Shroek that was the really controversial one - strange though it seems now.

I did say that about Jens, Grachan. He most certainly had a British wife and was permanently domiciled in Britain. They were regulars at all social events, especially afterf the meetings. No question of dashing off for more important bookings.

[RobMcCaffery]

3 hours ago, pitstop84 said:

Having known big Ron for a long time and worked with him at different tracks he will always tell you he never broke the rules just bent them to suit....

You get nothing if you don't try. If the BSPA weren't happy all they had to do was say no. I doubt whether Ron would have gone legal.