HenryW Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Sherborne Green said: Edinburgh 3 from UK, 3 Aussies, 1 Dane Pedantic, I know, but Edinburgh have 1 Norwegian not 1 Dane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crescent girl Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Sherborne Green said: There appears to be a great number of people who do not like the fact Poole have signed two Aussies. Lets just look at the other teams in this league. Berwick 2 from UK, 2 Aussies,1 Fin,1Dane, 1 Finland Birmingham 5 from UK, 1 Sweden, 1Italy Eastborne 7 from UK Edinburgh 3 from UK, 3 Aussies, 1 Dane Glasgow 1 from UK, 2from USA, 2 Danes, 2 Aussies Kent 5 from UK, 1 Aussie, 1 Italy Leicester 4 from UK, 3 Aussies Newcastle 3 from UK, 1 Dane, 1 Aussie, 1 Slov, 1 CZ Poole 4 from UK, 3 Aussies Redcar 3 from UK, 1 Germany, 2 Danes, 1 Aussie Scunthorpe 4 from UK, 1 Fin,1 Dane, 1 Aussie Somerset 4 from UK, 1 NZ, 2 Aussies Just to correct the above. Berwick have no Finns, but do have an Austrian and an Argentinian. Edinburgh don't have a Dane, but do have a Norwegian. Glasgow have one "Australian" who has dual nationality -- as do Leicester and Somerset! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poolebolton Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 31 minutes ago, DC2 said: Was he? I’ve just flicked through the Sheffield green sheets on the BSPA site and it looks like MacDonald stayed at reserve on his 4 point assessed average all season. Hang on, he did get up to 4.36 in GSA issue 31 at the end of August, then fell back below 4 by the end of September. rode at 2 for a number of meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzac Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sherborne Green said: There appears to be a great number of people who do not like the fact Poole have signed two Aussies. Lets just look at the other teams in this league. Berwick 2 from UK, 2 Aussies,1 Fin,1Dane, 1 Finland Birmingham 5 from UK, 1 Sweden, 1Italy Eastborne 7 from UK Edinburgh 3 from UK, 3 Aussies, 1 Dane Glasgow 1 from UK, 2from USA, 2 Danes, 2 Aussies Kent 5 from UK, 1 Aussie, 1 Italy Leicester 4 from UK, 3 Aussies Newcastle 3 from UK, 1 Dane, 1 Aussie, 1 Slov, 1 CZ Poole 4 from UK, 3 Aussies Redcar 3 from UK, 1 Germany, 2 Danes, 1 Aussie Scunthorpe 4 from UK, 1 Fin,1 Dane, 1 Aussie Somerset 4 from UK, 1 NZ, 2 Aussies Congratulations to Eastbourne, managed to do it 2 seasons in a row, even replacing Tom Brennen after his dreadful injury with Kyle Newman, and retaining both this year. May come up just short on winning anything again this season, but I can guarantee this team relates to the fans especially the youngsters with 3 British youngsters in the team probably better than any other, and if we do lose at home, it will always be an exciting, tight match. Edited January 30, 2020 by gazzac 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 24 minutes ago, poolebolton said: rode at 2 for a number of meetings. Yes, he did: four! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodgy Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, DC2 said: Greaves started 2019 on 3.99 and finished on 4.61. MacDonald started on 4 and finished under 4. Which is more deserving of a CL place? So why wasn’t he chosen? Stood still for a few years - improved in a weaker league. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Blobby Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 Teams would rather take the risk of bringing in a fresh face from abroad that they hope will go from being a 4 point rider to a heat leader within 2/3 seasons than sign up a Brit who you know what you’re getting with and probably aren’t going to hit those heights. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Hodgy said: So why wasn’t he chosen? Stood still for a few years - improved in a weaker league. Don’t know, but he’s only 21. Are you happy to give every 21 year old 4.61 rider the boot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzac Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 33 minutes ago, Mr Blobby said: Teams would rather take the risk of bringing in a fresh face from abroad that they hope will go from being a 4 point rider to a heat leader within 2/3 seasons than sign up a Brit who you know what you’re getting with and probably aren’t going to hit those heights. So are you writing off the hopes of the likes of Flint, Brennen, Kemp, Edwards etc even now ? Can't believe its not beyond the realms of possibility that some or all may be at least at the level Bewley is now in 2/3 seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodgy Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, DC2 said: Don’t know, but he’s only 21. Are you happy to give every 21 year old 4.61 rider the boot? It’s not my decision and surely the Ozzie’s can’t be cheaper. What’s the age of the current WC and how long has he been challenging On the big stage? Averages are the nemesis for British riders. Always have been. The better you do you risk riding yourself out of a job. Edited January 30, 2020 by Hodgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Blobby Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 50 minutes ago, gazzac said: So are you writing off the hopes of the likes of Flint, Brennen, Kemp, Edwards etc even now ? Can't believe its not beyond the realms of possibility that some or all may be at least at the level Bewley is now in 2/3 seasons. Well no, greaves for example has been around a few seasons now and can’t even average over 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzac Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, Mr Blobby said: Well no, greaves for example has been around a few seasons now and can’t even average over 5. Sorry thought you meant all Brits. I suppose as said the main problem is the Aussies coming in on 4 points, if not 5, even 4.5 points would make it a harder choice between a Brit and an Aussie. ( I'm not anti Australian by the way!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 As a 21 year old Charles Wright was averaging less than 4 for Redcar in the second tier. So to suggest that Nathan Greaves can be so casually discarded seems very harsh. (And after 6 years of Conference league experience Paul Starke averaged below 2.5 for Newcastle in the PL). We need the likes of Greaves, Hume and Bowtell to have decent opportunities to continue their careers as we continue to find it more and more difficult to attract riders from abroad. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Blobby Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 19 hours ago, gazzac said: Sorry thought you meant all Brits. I suppose as said the main problem is the Aussies coming in on 4 points, if not 5, even 4.5 points would make it a harder choice between a Brit and an Aussie. ( I'm not anti Australian by the way!) It’s easier for promoters to bring in a foreigner hoping they’ve found a gem instead of a Brit who has been around the same average for a couple of years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtf Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 I think it's ridiculous to criticise individual clubs or promotions for acting in the best interests of their businesses. As Blobby says above, why wouldn't a promotion look to try and unearth a "gem" rather than keep going back to an average brit hoping they come good and push on. There are many more who fall by the wayside than those who push on. Where the confusion comes I think is we all seem to think the BSPA should be pushing forward rules to help promote a healthy GB representation going forward. Whilst they act as a governing body so to speak, it's just a group of individual business people (and I use the term "Business people" very lightly) making stuff up to suit themselves. You could argue that a healthy Team GB helps their businesses, but I bet they would argue that a successful team helps them more. I would have thought Team GB and Rob Painter should be the ones lobbying the BSPA to make a structure that encourages development of GB riders and youngsters in particular. The PZM make the Polish rules to help develop their riders, the Swedes in the past did similar. Rob Painter should be trying the get the BSPA to do something to provide opportunities or advantages to British riders. I can't believe they didn't continue with something similar to the fast track set up they have. sure modify it, improve it, but use it to give opportunities to those British riders you think have the most potential. Other counties do it successfully, but maybe as a group they think they have nothing they can learn from other countries? At the same time, British riders really need to help themselves sometimes. Too many times when the going gets tough they "retire" and throw teddy in the corner. Understandable to a degree when since the age of 11 they've been told they are superstars. Sometimes blowing sunshine up kids backsides does skew their thinking. Too many times I've been talking to them and they say "no ones called me yet about a ride for next year" you ought to see the look on their faces when you ask if they have called anyone themselves. I'm generalising of course, there are some really good proactive riders out there and some really pig headed idiots too, the majority sit somewhere in between. Interesting what Arnieg says about Charles Wright. In 2010 as stated, Charles averaged under 4 at Redcar, he didn't have particularly successful periods in 2011 and 2012. The difference I guess is he didn't have a hissy fit and retire, he went away, considered his future, decided to change somethings and started to rebuild. A season in the NL rebuilding confidence and then taking at opportunity at Somerset when the time was right and he's built from there. the Fast Track helped him even though he decided to sit out the first year, and he progressed. You could say similar about the later progression of Jason Doyle. in 2011 there were plenty of Aussies who were considered more talented than him at the time, some of whom are sat back in Aussie now after themselves having hissy fits. (it's not just a british thing). There is an element of if you want it bad enough you'll make it and if you don't you won't. And in my experience too many young brits don't want it bad enough. Yes the system isn't perfect, Team GB should be making the BSPA do something to help, but these guys need to help themselves as well. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzac Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mr Blobby said: It’s easier for promoters to bring in a foreigner hoping they’ve found a gem instead of a Brit who has been around the same average for a couple of years. True although I'd rather have Edwards and Kemp at reserve at Eastie than the Poole duo, perhaps it's the last 4 seasons in the NL that gives you a slightly different perspective on a team, having seen youngsters come into the team at 15 years old, and younger in the pre match rides,you're just wanting to see them progress. Edited January 31, 2020 by gazzac 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Blobby Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 2 hours ago, gazzac said: True although I'd rather have Edwards and Kemp at reserve at Eastie than the Poole duo, perhaps it's the last 4 seasons in the NL that gives you a slightly different perspective on a team, having seen youngsters come into the team at 15 years old, and younger in the pre match rides,you're just wanting to see them progress. I wouldn’t disagree about Edwards and kemp. It seems the young guns currently coming through are going in the right direction compared to the ones of the last 4/5 years. however with the more professional approach from the team GB camp and all these training sessions and international test matches this current crop of youngsters can continue to grow. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Third Man Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 I am not bothered what nationality a rider is, as long as they go out to entertain me. I don't get the fuss over British riders having to have first choice of teams, if they are good enough they will have a team place 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Third Man Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 On 1/30/2020 at 3:27 PM, DC2 said: Greaves started 2019 on 3.99 and finished on 4.61. MacDonald started on 4 and finished under 4. Which is more deserving of a CL place? MacDonald looked a lot better prospect in his first season with Sheffield, and his first season in England than Greaves did when he rode for Sheffield. so if I had to choose I would go for him on a four leaving an extra 0.61 points available for the rest of the team, because he looks a much better prospect I would actually have gone for Kennedy over MacDonald Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, Mr Blobby said: I wouldn’t disagree about Edwards and kemp. It seems the young guns currently coming through are going in the right direction compared to the ones of the last 4/5 years. however with the more professional approach from the team GB camp and all these training sessions and international test matches this current crop of youngsters can continue to grow. Yes, there is a lot going on in the background that most fans don't know about. All teams should consider training their own, as well as making speculative signings. It's not one and not the other. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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