iris123 Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 (edited) Well basically start with the 1934 championship at the L.A Coliseum, which was a 3 day event. A great idea I think, but think it was a one-off in the history of the sport It seems like the first 2 days were qualifiers for the final day and it looks to me as if the points from the quali meetings were taken over to the final See that day 1 had a 12,000 att and 10,000 for day2. No idea about the final day, if anyone has info ? If anyone has any heat details that would be great One query for day 1. The report I have seen say's 'Pete Coleman carrying on for the injured Jack Milne'. Not quite sure what this means as in the line-up for the final day, both are listed Day 2 mentions Sam Arena deserted his hospital bed to ride and he qualified!!! And that Garland Johnson forced Wilbur Lamoreaux, the reigning title holder(important because one or two sites list Ray Grant as 1933 champ?), to a new track record. Johnson took 4 2nd places to turn a score of 12 from a possible 16. So I guess both quali meets were run over 16 heats ? The final line-up; 'Sprouts' Elder (riding with 3 broken ribs from a previous crash),W.Lamoreaux, G.Johnson, S.Arena, C.Self, B.McKinney, C.Milne, M.Waln, B.Lisman, P.Coleman, J.Milne, E. Hinkle,R.Roberts, K.Schofield, E.Spadefore, E.Jones, E.Farrand Just know Cordy and Lammy tied for points on 28 and I am guessing they had a run-off which Cordy led narrowly all the way to the finish and broke the track record. Possibly though they met in their last heat and Cordy had a 32 pt max from the two meetings !! Milne then had a total of 32, Lammy finished 2nd and Byrd McKinney 3rd. Not sure on their totals then Earl Farrand had 25 as did Bo Lisman, Pete Coleman 24, Kenny Schofield 24 and Elder had 20 Anyone fill in the gaps ? A few weeks later Lloyd 'Sprouts' Elder announced his retirement from the sport and that he was joining the Fresno California Highway Patrol Edited January 2, 2020 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 Got a report from the previous year, which confirms Lammy as champ. At this time it was points accumulated over a number of meetings Wilbur 'Lammy' Lamoreaux, lithe Frenchman from Pasadena, today holds the title as the result of a scintillating performance turned in at the seasons final meet in the Emeryville Motorcycle Speedway last night. Although Lamoreaux's riding was of the sensational variety, and he had clinched the championship before the meet had reached the half way mark, he was given plenty of competition by Byrd McKinney and Garland Johnson, the latter something of a dark horse so far as last evenings program was concerned. Ed Jones of Stockton secured the Northern California title by some consistent riding although A. Chasteen of Oakland, runner up copped a special match race. Lamoreaux climaxed a great evening of piloting to win the final scratch race, with McKinney 2nd and Miny Waln, deposed title holder, third The Milne brothers, Jack and Cordy, expected to sparkle..............and motor trouble eliminating them early Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) USA National Championship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMA_National_Speedway_Championship Edited January 3, 2020 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) 56 minutes ago, gustix said: USA National Championship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMA_National_Speedway_Championship Yes. exactly. Seemingly with the wrong winner in 1933, which is why I wouldn’t use it. Britmet’s speedway champions site is better John Edited January 3, 2020 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, gustix said: USA National Championship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMA_National_Speedway_Championship 3 hours ago, iris123 said: Yes. exactly. Seemingly with the wrong winner in 1933, which is why I wouldn’t use it. Britmet’s speedway champions site is better John I don't dispute your fact/comment re Ray Grant not being the 1933 USA champion. What I do think is incredible that for many years consistently on many forums/websites hr has been credited as the 1933 title winner. I also find it astonishing that so far as I can trace the error does not appear to have been previously commented upon. Here's another USA champions' list that details Ray Grant as 1933 champion: https://www.speedwaybikes.com/history/champion.htm As suggested, I have also visited Britmet's tabulation in regard to USA champions which favours Wilbur Lamiraux as the winner. However, here's a third USA forum that again credits Ray Grant. https://www.speedwaybikes.com/history/champion.htm For the claim that the 1933 champion was Wilbur Lamoreaux and not Ray Grant, here's the Britmet version: http://www.speedwaychampions.com/resources/2018_all/US 01 CHMPSHPS multi for PDF in 2s.pdf Edited January 3, 2020 by Guest updated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) That is the problem. Where is the source of the information? One sites makes a mistake and others just share it without checking. How many sites give Hoskins credit for inventing speedway ? It isn’t how many sites get it wrong, it is how many check things they share I think I have posted credible contemporary evidence that clearly places Lammy in between Waln and Milne as 1933 champ Without getting into a Barney, I can vouch for Britmets Information having checked his piece on the German golden helmet . We also know you have a habit of sharing, shall we say dodgy info from sites..... Edited January 3, 2020 by iris123 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 2 hours ago, iris123 said: That is the problem. Where is the source of the information? One site makes a mistake and others just share it without checking. I agree. An initial error is made on a site, then it gets continuity via quotes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2020 One thing to remember in this is that Grant had a serious injury in July 1933 that put him out of the sport until April 1934. I think it would have been almost impossible to have accumulated enough points to cover his absence from July to November and still take the title. Even given that Lammy spent some time along with the Milne brothers I guess ( Cordy at least won the championship) in Mexico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) I am surprised that Manuel Trujillo, who was a close friend of Wilbur Lamoreaux, Jack and Cordy Milne, does not appear in any of these early day US championships. Possibly it was because - and it needs confirmation? - Trujillo was also active with a rival speedway faction run by the 'legendary' Putt Mossman at this time? Does any forum member know more about the Mossman troupe's activity in the early 1930s? I have read that besides their USA activities that at this time they also raced in Japan, New Zealand and Australia and in 1936, 1937 and 1938 toured British tracks. Edited January 7, 2020 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, gustix said: I am surprised that Manuel Trujillo, who was a close friend of Wilbur Lamoreaux, Jack and Cordy Milne, does not appear in any of these early day US championships. Possibly it was because - and it needs confirmation? - Trujillo was also active with a rival speedway faction run by the 'legendary' Putt Mossman at this time? Does any forum member know more about the Mossman troupe's activity in the early 1930s? I have read that besides their USA activities that at this time they also raced in Japan, New Zealand and Australia and in 1936, 1937 and 1938 toured British tracks. Ray Grant was also associated with Mossman,.Think he was married to his sister,? I don't think that is the reason. Sure I have seen reports from meetings where they are all riding against each other. Lammy, Milne, McKinney, and Trujillo,Mossman. What makes you think that Mossman had a 'rival speedway faction at the time' ? He was just another rider on the bill, as far as I can see Edited January 7, 2020 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 4 hours ago, iris123 said: What makes you think that Mossman had a 'rival speedway faction at the time' ? He was just another rider on the bill, as far as I can see I make my comment solely on items that have been published over the years - which I have never checked for more details. They just give Putt Mossman's promotional interest on the fact that in the 1930s he took teams/rider groups to Japan, Australia, New Zealand until about 1938. And post-WW2 he offered to bring a rider group to the UK in 1946, an offer which British promoters declined. Mossman used to book stadiums where there was a track then stage his own meeting using his rider troupe. Besides Mossman, off hand the only riders I recall as being members are Mossman, Trujillo and Charles 'Pee Wee' Cullum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) Well he certainly was no promoter nor had a troupe at the time of the 1934 final. At this time he was just a rider. Think he turned up early in 1933 to do some stunts and then started riding as well. But wasn’t a top rider. Neither was Trujillo. He might well have competed in one of the semi finals as may Mossman, but never qualified McKinney and Lisman also competed with Mossmans troupe I think. Possibly Earl Farrand . They were all competing against each other at meetings What is probably more surprising is why Ray Tauser never seemed to be in any meetings as far as I know. He seems to have disappeared, at least he never seemed to compete in California. But his reputation in Australia kept him in the news and there were rumours for a couple of years that he would return or send a group of Americans over to tour and even captain them..... Edited January 8, 2020 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 7, 2020 Report Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) Manuel Trujillo was an interesting character in USA speedway. In younger days in the early 1930s he worked as motorcycle messenger for Western Union where his workmates were Jack and Cordy Milne and Wilbur Lamoreaux. He followed then into speedway in the early 1930s but while they concentrated mainly on the sport in California, Trujillo joined Putt Mossman's troupe and raced with them in Japan, New Zealand and Australia, then in the UK between 1936 and 1938. In those latter years he also worked as a mechanic for the Milnes and Lamoreaux when they joined British clubs. At Wimbledon in 1937 where he helped Lammy promoter Ronnie Greene also gave him second-half rides. Trujillo's historic claim to UK speedway fame was helping the USA to a 52-51 defeat of England in the first ever international between the sides on August 30 1937 when he finished second to Cordy Milne as they took a last heat 5-1 from Joe Abbott and Frankc Charles. Going into the dramatic last heat England led 50-47. Trujillo was back in Britain with the USA team in 1951 but quit the tour after six weeks and went home claiming the American riders were not being paid a high enough fee for expenses, points and start money. On the USA championship scene, Trujillo won the USA Open Championship in 1939 and 1946. BTW 1937 world champion Jack Milne regarded Trujillo as 'the most spectacular ever speedway leg trailer rider'. Edited January 7, 2020 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 There was an effort to get the very best riders at the LA Coliseum in 1934. The release of Eastern speedway contracts for Goldie Restall and Palmer Tamburro was sought by the AMA and assurances were given that Son Smith and J.B. Jones of Dallas would also attend There was also a nasty aftermath to the final, where one famous rider was threatened with a life ban !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2020 Report Share Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) On 1/7/2020 at 4:10 PM, iris123 said: Ray Grant was also associated with Mossman,.Think he was married to his sister,? I don't think that is the reason. Sure I have seen reports from meetings where they are all riding against each other. Lammy, Milne, McKinney, and Trujillo,Mossman. What makes you think that Mossman had a 'rival speedway faction at the time' ? He was just another rider on the bill, as far as I can see This some data I have collated in regard to 'the exploits' of Putt Mossman in speedway: http://www.speedwaymuseumonline.co.uk/puttmossman.html http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/halloffame/detail.aspx?RacerID=237 Edited January 8, 2020 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 On 1/2/2020 at 5:13 PM, iris123 said: Well basically start with the 1934 championship at the L.A Coliseum, which was a 3 day event. A great idea I think, but think it was a one-off in the history of the sport It seems like the first 2 days were qualifiers for the final day and it looks to me as if the points from the quali meetings were taken over to the final See that day 1 had a 12,000 att and 10,000 for day2. No idea about the final day, if anyone has info ? If anyone has any heat details that would be great One query for day 1. The report I have seen say's 'Pete Coleman carrying on for the injured Jack Milne'. Not quite sure what this means as in the line-up for the final day, both are listed Day 2 mentions Sam Arena deserted his hospital bed to ride and he qualified!!! And that Garland Johnson forced Wilbur Lamoreaux, the reigning title holder(important because one or two sites list Ray Grant as 1933 champ?), to a new track record. Johnson took 4 2nd places to turn a score of 12 from a possible 16. So I guess both quali meets were run over 16 heats ? The final line-up; 'Sprouts' Elder (riding with 3 broken ribs from a previous crash),W.Lamoreaux, G.Johnson, S.Arena, C.Self, B.McKinney, C.Milne, M.Waln, B.Lisman, P.Coleman, J.Milne, E. Hinkle,R.Roberts, K.Schofield, E.Spadefore, E.Jones, E.Farrand Just know Cordy and Lammy tied for points on 28 and I am guessing they had a run-off which Cordy led narrowly all the way to the finish and broke the track record. Possibly though they met in their last heat and Cordy had a 32 pt max from the two meetings !! Milne then had a total of 32, Lammy finished 2nd and Byrd McKinney 3rd. Not sure on their totals then Earl Farrand had 25 as did Bo Lisman, Pete Coleman 24, Kenny Schofield 24 and Elder had 20 Anyone fill in the gaps ? A few weeks later Lloyd 'Sprouts' Elder announced his retirement from the sport and that he was joining the Fresno California Highway Patrol In the aftermatch of the 1934 US national championship, the dethroned champ, Wilbur Lamoreaux was upset that new champ, Cordy Milne used what he called a 'trick machine'. It seems Cordy's frame was shorter than the standard frame which according to Lammy gave him an unfair advantage on the turns. The promoter of Emeryville Speedway got wind of this and held a series of conferences to match them up at his track. Through Lammy's manager he heard Wilbur would agree as long as Cordy used a standard bike. It was then that AMA president Hap Alzina stepped in to threaten Cordy with a lifetime ban from all tracks if he didn't agree. In the end Milne had no choice, but requested the track be specially prepared so he could ride 'full throttle'. He then sent a telegram stating he would bring both his short bike and a standard one and said 'understood race to decide best man.Why not trade machines? Will beat him anyway' When told of this Lammy replied 'All I want is a chance to meet him again on even terms.Let me at him'. The race was to be over two laps and a huge cash prize was waiting for the winner to settle the argument. In the end Milne proved yet again he was the better man at that time and not only won the revenge race, but also beat Lammy in the scratch race final that night 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted May 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 On 1/7/2020 at 4:53 PM, gustix said: I am surprised that Manuel Trujillo, who was a close friend of Wilbur Lamoreaux, Jack and Cordy Milne, does not appear in any of these early day US championships. Possibly it was because - and it needs confirmation? - Trujillo was also active with a rival speedway faction run by the 'legendary' Putt Mossman at this time? Having seen the line-up for the first semi-final at the LA Coliseum, I can now state that Trujillo was 3rd reserve behind Bud Johnson and Jack Burris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted May 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 On 1/2/2020 at 5:13 PM, iris123 said: Well basically start with the 1934 championship at the L.A Coliseum, which was a 3 day event. A great idea I think, but think it was a one-off in the history of the sport It seems like the first 2 days were qualifiers for the final day and it looks to me as if the points from the quali meetings were taken over to the final See that day 1 had a 12,000 att and 10,000 for day2. No idea about the final day, if anyone has info ? If anyone has any heat details that would be great One query for day 1. The report I have seen say's 'Pete Coleman carrying on for the injured Jack Milne'. Not quite sure what this means as in the line-up for the final day, both are listed Day 2 mentions Sam Arena deserted his hospital bed to ride and he qualified!!! And that Garland Johnson forced Wilbur Lamoreaux, the reigning title holder(important because one or two sites list Ray Grant as 1933 champ?), to a new track record. Johnson took 4 2nd places to turn a score of 12 from a possible 16. So I guess both quali meets were run over 16 heats ? The final line-up; 'Sprouts' Elder (riding with 3 broken ribs from a previous crash),W.Lamoreaux, G.Johnson, S.Arena, C.Self, B.McKinney, C.Milne, M.Waln, B.Lisman, P.Coleman, J.Milne, E. Hinkle,R.Roberts, K.Schofield, E.Spadefore, E.Jones, E.Farrand Just know Cordy and Lammy tied for points on 28 and I am guessing they had a run-off which Cordy led narrowly all the way to the finish and broke the track record. Possibly though they met in their last heat and Cordy had a 32 pt max from the two meetings !! Milne then had a total of 32, Lammy finished 2nd and Byrd McKinney 3rd. Not sure on their totals then Earl Farrand had 25 as did Bo Lisman, Pete Coleman 24, Kenny Schofield 24 and Elder had 20 Anyone fill in the gaps ? A few weeks later Lloyd 'Sprouts' Elder announced his retirement from the sport and that he was joining the Fresno California Highway Patrol The line-up for day 1 Sid Chambers Byrd McKinney Eddie Spadafore Snooks Blankenburg Sprouts Elder Clff Self Chico Duarte Burton Albrecht Lou Casazza Bo Lisman Miny Waln Bert Lewis Ed Jones Pete Colman Ray Holt Frank Serveti reserves probably for both days at a guess Bud Johnson Jack Burris Manuel Trujill Lou Branch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puma23 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 1934 Los Angeles (Olympic Stadium) - 1, 2, 3 lipca (01.07, 02.07., 03.07). Finał Pozycja (Position) Zawodnik (Rider) Klub (Club) Punkty (Points) Suma (Total) 1 Cordy Milne Hollywood - 32 2 Wilbur Lamoreaux - - 31 3 Byrd McKinney - - 29 4 Miny Waln - - 27 5 Earl Farrand - - 25 6 Bo Lisman - - 25 6 Pete Coleman - - 24 8 Ken Schofield - - 24 8 Rusty Roberts - - 23 10 Garland Johnson - - 22 10 Ed Hinkle - - 22 12 Sprouts Elder - - 20 12 Cliff Self - - 19 14 Burton Albrecht - - 15 15 Sam Arena - - 15 16 Ed Spadefore - - 15 17 Charles Cullum - - 10 18 Hugh Blankenburg - - 10 19 Al Chasteen - - 9 20 Bert Lewis - - 9 21 Sid Chambers - - 8 22 Putt Mossman - - 8 23 Bud Johnson - - 7 24 Al Lauer - - 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puma23 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 1935 Fresno - 20 październik (20.10). Finał Pozycja (Position) Zawodnik (Rider) Klub (Club) Punkty (Points) Suma (Total) 1 Cordy Milne Los Angeles - 20 2 Jack Milne Los Angeles - 17 3 Miny Waln Los Angeles - 17 4 Byrd McKinney Pasadena - 16 5 Pete Coleman Pasadena - 16 5 Wilbur Lamoreaux Sacramento - 15 7 Ken Schofield Hollywood - 13 7 Ray Tauser Portland - 12 9 Al Chasteen Oakland - 12 10 Jimmie Gibb New Jersey - 11 10 Cliff Carroll Modesto - 11 12 Putt Mossman Los Angeles - 9 13 Bert Lewis Los Angeles - 8 14 Dutch Mueller Los Angeles - 8 14 Earl Farrand Giendale - 7 14 Jerry Girard Hollywood - 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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