Frank Arthur a real Pioneer.!!!

[norbold]

10 hours ago, Sotonian said:

So, if Lees has a valid claim to have invented foot-forward, is it clear who invented leg-trailing?

 My recollection is that it was the American Maldwyn Jones with Eddie Brinck also in the frame.

 

It's a very interesting question and one which goes to the heart of when did speedway begin.

A rider called Don Johns who started around 1909 and won the National Dirt Track Championship in Chicago in 1912 may have been the first to slide round a bend without brakes. A contemporary description of him goes like this, “Don Johns preferred to barnstorm the 1-mile dirt track circuits of California and the Midwest, gaining experience as well as a reputation as the hardest fighting rider in the no-holds-barred game. By 1914, Johns had improved to such an extent that the Excelsior could not hold him. He would ride the entire race course wide open, throwing great showers of dirt into the air at each turn.” How else could you throw great showers of dirt into the air on the bends if not by sliding? Was Johns the first speedway rider in the world?

He was followed shortly afterwards by another American called Albert “Shrimp” Burns who was killed in a track crash on 14 August 1921. Part of his obituary written by C.E.B. Clement, which appeared in Motorcycle and Bicycle Illustrated reads, “I strolled down the track to watch him take the turns. Here he came with that motor humming a great tune and into the turn he went. Watching him handle that machine in the long slide all the way around, I saw in fancy, the then great battler of the day, Don Johns. For Burns was holding the pole and fighting the rear wheel in a manner that very closely resembled the work of the then known hardest fighter of the racing game.”

After the War, in the late teens and early twenties, two more Americans, Maldwyn Jones and Eddie Brinck, were renowned for the way they threw their bikes in to the bends and broadsided round, using what was known as the pendulum skid.

Now, whether any of this was actually leg trailing is another matter. And so we move on to Australia...

If any American may have influenced any Australians as to the advantages of broadsiding, it would have been Cecil Brown an American who rode in Australia in the early to mid 1920s. However, Brown didn't race all over Australia during the establishment of the popularity of racing on small tracks so it maybe that, just as speedway evolved, the art of "broadsiding" evolved on tracks throughout Australia as riders fought for ways to gain an advantage over their opponents while cornering aboard their powerful machines on the tighter tracks. For example, in Brisbane during the 1926-27 season, Vic Huxley was given the nickname "Broadside" Vic Huxley. He wouldn't have seen Brown nor Eddie Brinck nor Sprouts Elder (who came over later) race, so we can't be sure it was an American who taught him the art of broadsiding. He may just have developed it himself independently.

By the time the Australians came over to Britain in 1928, leg trailing was well established as the preferred (and only) method of sliding round the bends.

Edited December 16, 2019 by norbold

[lucifer sam]

Did anyone slide a bike at the original Indianapolis, before they laid the bricks to make it safer for the cars?

[iris123]

3 minutes ago, lucifer sam said:

Did anyone slide a bike at the original Indianapolis, before they laid the bricks to make it safer for the cars?

Think I posted a link a few years back that suggested quite possibly 

[lucifer sam]

3 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Think I posted a link a few years back that suggested quite possibly 

I vaguely remembered that we may have discussed this before

[iris123]

Just now, lucifer sam said:

I vaguely remembered that we may have discussed this before

Yes think it might have been a newspaper report of the meeting describing dirt or grit getting showered as the riders went round the bends. Nothing 100%, but evocative of sliding

[iris123]

A report of Eddie Brinck and Sprouts Elder racing each other in Australia

https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/sprouts-elder-now-speed-idol-australia/

[norbold]

19 minutes ago, iris123 said:

A report of Eddie Brinck and Sprouts Elder racing each other in Australia

https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/sprouts-elder-now-speed-idol-australia/

Brilliant. Thanks for that, iris.

[iris123]

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 8:10 PM, norbold said:

 

Now, whether any of this was actually leg trailing is another matter. And so we move on to Australia...

If any American may have influenced any Australians as to the advantages of broadsiding, it would have been Cecil Brown an American who rode in Australia in the early to mid 1920s. However, Brown didn't race all over Australia during the establishment of the popularity of racing on small tracks so it maybe that, just as speedway evolved, the art of "broadsiding" evolved on tracks throughout Australia as riders fought for ways to gain an advantage over their opponents while cornering aboard their powerful machines on the tighter tracks. For example, in Brisbane during the 1926-27 season, Vic Huxley was given the nickname "Broadside" Vic Huxley. He wouldn't have seen Brown nor Eddie Brinck nor Sprouts Elder (who came over later) race, so we can't be sure it was an American who taught him the art of broadsiding. He may just have developed it himself independently.

By the time the Australians came over to Britain in 1928, leg trailing was well established as the preferred (and only) method of sliding round the bends.

Just having a look and in the Brisbane Courier 29.12.1926 is a photo of Paddy Dean doing a 'broadside skid'

[iris123]

Further to the topic and reading some of the fascinating report of meetings from 1926-1927, it does seem 'broadsiding was practiced by a number of riders at the time

One particular report though from 28.02.1927 states that Jock Hollis(Sydney) is not a spectacular rider, and he only resorts to the dangerous , even if spectacular practice of skidding when it is absolutely necessary !!

A few days earlier Vic Huxley swapped from A.J.S to a Harley and it seemed from then on moved to another level.It was stated before he was very difficult to overtake if he was in the lead, but all of a sudden it seems on the Harley he was passing people when behind

But what is clear is that there was a lot of interaction between Sydney and Brisbane. Charlie Spinks was banned for his part in the strike in 1926 and went to Sydney to race and a number of riders from Sydney turned up in Brisbane to race. Van Praag turned up just as Huxley acquired his Harley. So quite possibly one of those that had seen the American rider(s) in Sydney brought the style to Brisbane?Brinck was in Oz during the winter of 1926 

It does though seem that broadsiding was established in Oz before either Brinck or Huxley. Saw a report about the start of the Broadsiding season around October 1926, so it must have been reasonably well known from the previous season. Must check the date again

Edited December 21, 2019 by iris123

[E I Addio]

Does anybody know what sort of tyres they were using in the early days of broadsiding ? I would imagine that they must have been basically road tyres. I doubt if the sport was big enough to make it worthwhile for a manufacturer to produce special track tyres, and even if they did technology was probably no advance enough to make it financially viable. This very likely affected the way the bike handled and might well have had something to do with the riders style ( maybe one of a number of factors).

Even as late as the sixties they were using trials tyres with the treads on one side cut at an angle to help with cornering. At a guess I would say specialist trials tyres only came available after WW2 when trials bikes themselves became more specialist and as far as I know  purpose made Speedway tyres only became used in the UK and Australia when Ove Fundin started using Barums around the mid- sixties( even then I think they were bannned at first ) .

This is something I’ve never thought about until this discussion and my thoughts are more or less guess work, but does anyone know any more about it ?

[norbold]

Incidentally, the thought that the Americans Maldwyn Jones, Eddie Brinck and Sprouts Elder, following in the tradition of Don Johns and Shrimp Burns before them, were broadsiding and may have been responsible for introducing the technique to Australia would seem to put another nail in the coffin of the hoary old myth that Johnnie Hoskins "invented" speedway in Australia in 1923.

As always, more research is needed...

[iris123]

51 minutes ago, E I Addio said:

Does anybody know what sort of tyres they were using in the early days of broadsiding ? I would imagine that they must have been basically road tyres. I doubt if the sport was big enough to make it worthwhile for a manufacturer to produce special track tyres, and even if they did technology was probably no advance enough to make it financially viable. This very likely affected the way the bike handled and might well have had something to do with the riders style ( maybe one of a number of factors).

Even as late as the sixties they were using trials tyres with the treads on one side cut at an angle to help with cornering. At a guess I would say specialist trials tyres only came available after WW2 when trials bikes themselves became more specialist and as far as I know  purpose made Speedway tyres only became used in the UK and Australia when Ove Fundin started using Barums around the mid- sixties( even then I think they were bannned at first ) .

This is something I’ve never thought about until this discussion and my thoughts are more or less guess work, but does anyone know any more about it ?

There are some great pics of the 1925 Harley peashooter with wonderful racing tyres. But in the Brisbane Courier was also an add for Dunlop tyres stating Australian roads were 50% tougher on tyres than the roads in the US and Europe !!!

example

https://silodrome.com/1928-harley-davidson-peashooter/

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/19679/lot/274/?category=list

Edited December 21, 2019 by iris123

[E I Addio]

4 hours ago, iris123 said:

There are some great pics of the 1925 Harley peashooter with wonderful racing tyres. But in the Brisbane Courier was also an add for Dunlop tyres stating Australian roads were 50% tougher on tyres than the roads in the US and Europe !!!

example

https://silodrome.com/1928-harley-davidson-peashooter/

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/19679/lot/274/?category=list

Fantastic pictures.  Not sure they answer my query but at least I now know why the Harley Peashooter was called a “peashooter” .

Just my guess work again, but looking at the position of the handlebars and footrests it sort of leads one to take up a leg trailing position.   Interesting also is the front fork design which remained almost unchanged for 40 years.

Probably the best pictures of a bike from that era I can ever remember seeing. Thanks for posting them

[iris123]

Also interesting to see there was a group of female riders in Australia in those pre-UK days. At the opening meeting at the Sydney Showground a match race between two women from of all places West Maitland. Mrs. Lee and Miss Nora Stacey, which Mrs. Lee won comfortably !! A few weeks later Mrs. Lee won what was titled the Women’s Championship of Australia against a Mrs. Cridland

Edited December 22, 2019 by iris123

[iris123]

On ‎12‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 10:56 AM, norbold said:

You are dead right, Sidney. Frank Arthur was the sport's first "superstar". He was the leading rider in Australia before speedway started in this country and then in the first two British seasons (28 and 29) was the top rider in this country. He was probably then overtaken by Vic Huxley but there is no doubt he deserves to be spoken of in the same way as other dominant riders of their time like Duggan, Fundin, Mauger, Nielsen, Rickardsson etc., but too early really for him to be properly remembered and lauded.

Just to get back to this point and wondering looking at the results. Not wanting to contradict, more clarification

Looking at the Davies Park handicap classifications, which I assume is a ranking of how good a rider is, it was as follows in January of 1928 just before the riders came to the UK

Scratch: Huxley + Lamont

1s Arthur

2s Pearce

3s Smythe and Cecil Brown

4s Buchanan

5s S.Bayly, J. Bishop, S. Durston, B.Scott, A.Pritchard, L.Lawrence

6s J.Binney, H.Hastings, B.Unwin

7s F.Hore

8s B.Jones, B.Faber, H.Meston, L.Percival,R.Anderson

Of course this is just one track and it is possible Frank Arthur felt wrongly classified as he opted to go from scratch in at least one meeting !!! And in his heat he almost made up the 7 second advantage that Fred Hore had over him, but his bike played up a bit on the last lap.....

What is also interesting from a technical point, is that the cut-out was being introduced at Davies Park by early 1928 and some riders were ignoring the ruling. So the bikes was pretty much the basic 'speedway' bike by the time the riders came over to the UK, as I remember posting a link that stated Indian at least were producing dirt track racers with no brakes fairly early on. From memory maybe even in the 1910s 

 

Edited December 23, 2019 by iris123

[iris123]

On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 10:47 AM, norbold said:

Incidentally, the thought that the Americans Maldwyn Jones, Eddie Brinck and Sprouts Elder, following in the tradition of Don Johns and Shrimp Burns before them, were broadsiding and may have been responsible for introducing the technique to Australia would seem to put another nail in the coffin of the hoary old myth that Johnnie Hoskins "invented" speedway in Australia in 1923.

As always, more research is needed...

What is interesting in the development of broadsiding I that in a meeting at West Maitland in 1925, which incidentaly was a 'benefit' meeting for injured riders and their damaged bikes, under the auspices of forementioned J. Hoskins it seems 3 riders were fined and banned for 4 weeks for 'dragging their feet' !!! C+ J. Datson and J.Sweeney

[andout]

Some of the Frank Arthur collection that I was at in Australia several years ago.....it was a shame IMO that this could have not been sold as one lot!

 

[andout]

Wish I could add all the stuff sold but it won't let me do it here!

 

Help?

[iris123]

On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 10:47 AM, norbold said:

Incidentally, the thought that the Americans Maldwyn Jones, Eddie Brinck and Sprouts Elder, following in the tradition of Don Johns and Shrimp Burns before them, were broadsiding and may have been responsible for introducing the technique to Australia would seem to put another nail in the coffin of the hoary old myth that Johnnie Hoskins "invented" speedway in Australia in 1923.

As always, more research is needed...

As some sort of proof of this practice and that it was the US riders that introduced the technique to Australia, how about this article from 1923 entitled Steering into a skid : Dirt track methods ?

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/63782805?searchTerm=dirt track&searchLimits=exactPhrase|||anyWords|||notWords|||requestHandler|||dateFrom=1920-01-01|||dateTo=1926-12-31|||sortby

[norbold]

That is an absolutely fantastic find, iris. Surely, it must put the final nail in the coffin of the idea that Johnnie Hoskins "invented" speedway. Your article is dated  3 November 1923 and the West Maitland meeting was held on 15 December 1923!