Frank Arthur a real Pioneer.!!!

[Sidney the robin]

After looking through books and articles it was amazing to discover that Frank Arthur had a huge input on how the sport developed.As a rider he won the first Overseas star riders championship in 1929 and later on was responsible for bringing Max Grosskreutz over and later two other aussie greats in Ray Tauser and Dicky Case.Talk about great riders i dont often hear Arthur mentioned but he should do a real pioneer.

[norbold]

You are dead right, Sidney. Frank Arthur was the sport's first "superstar". He was the leading rider in Australia before speedway started in this country and then in the first two British seasons (28 and 29) was the top rider in this country. He was probably then overtaken by Vic Huxley but there is no doubt he deserves to be spoken of in the same way as other dominant riders of their time like Duggan, Fundin, Mauger, Nielsen, Rickardsson etc., but too early really for him to be properly remembered and lauded.

P.S. Ray Tauser was an American.

Edited December 13, 2019 by norbold

[Sidney the robin]

3 hours ago, norbold said:

You are dead right, Sidney. Frank Arthur was the sport's first "superstar". He was the leading rider in Australia before speedway started in this country and then in the first two British seasons (28 and 29) was the top rider in this country. He was probably then overtaken by Vic Huxley but there is no doubt he deserves to be spoken of in the same way as other dominant riders of their time like Duggan, Fundin, Mauger, Nielsen, Rickardsson etc., but too early really for him to be properly remembered and lauded.

P.S. Ray Tauser was an American.

Just the man to ask  Norbold, was it a big shock when Frank Charles beat the great Tom Farndon at Belle  Vue in the Star championships in 1935.??Ps sorry about Tauser did he have a brother???

Edited December 13, 2019 by Sidney the robin

[norbold]

3 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

Just the man to ask  Norbold, was it a big shock when Frank Charles beat the great Tom Farndon at Belle  Vue in the Star championships in 1935.??Ps sorry about Tauser did he have a brother???

It was Bluey Wilkinson and Eric Langton who beat Tom Farndon at Belle Vue and neither of those results would have been that surprising. All three were very much on a par really.

As far as I know Ray Tauser didn't have a brother but he may have done!

[Sidney the robin]

6 minutes ago, norbold said:

It was Bluey Wilkinson and Eric Langton who beat Tom Farndon at Belle Vue and neither of those results would have been that surprising. All three were very much on a par really.

As far as I know Ray Tauser didn't have a brother but he may have done!

Does Langton very much go under the radar Norbold ?my uncle saw him only once he said he was a real racer top class.

[iris123]

6 hours ago, norbold said:

You are dead right, Sidney. Frank Arthur was the sport's first "superstar". He was the leading rider in Australia before speedway started in this country and then in the first two British seasons (28 and 29) was the top rider in this country. He was probably then overtaken by Vic Huxley but there is no doubt he deserves to be spoken of in the same way as other dominant riders of their time like Duggan, Fundin, Mauger, Nielsen, Rickardsson etc., but too early really for him to be properly remembered and lauded.

P.S. Ray Tauser was an American.

Arthur didn't come up against Elder much in the first season though,did he? And often in big clashes of the time, it ended in an anti-climax of one or even both having bike problems. Talking generally here, rather than specifically about Arthur

[Sidney the robin]

3 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Arthur didn't come up against Elder much in the first season though,did he? And often in big clashes of the time, it ended in an anti-climax of one or even both having bike problems. Talking generally here, rather than specifically about Arthur

Sprouts what can you tell me about him Iris? i know we bitch now and again but i do respect your knowledge big time on speedway Elder is someone I have limited knowledge on.

[iris123]

1 minute ago, Sidney the robin said:

Sprouts what can you tell me about him Iris? i know we bitch now and again but i do respect your knowledge big time on speedway Elder is someone I have limited knowledge on.

Interesting rider Sid. One of the 2 top Americans along with Art Pechar in those early years. Came over to Hamburg in 1929 when he was serving a ban in the UK. Big crowd turned up to see him challenge Ginger Lees, who was the 'local' favourite and track specialist and he apparently gave Lees little chance. Turned up at the start of the next season billed as 'world champion' !!! Which he apparently won in Argentina, I think. Class act and very exciting

[norbold]

1 hour ago, Sidney the robin said:

Does Langton very much go under the radar Norbold ?my uncle saw him only once he said he was a real racer top class.

I wouldn't say Langton has gone under the radar. He won the Star Riders'' Championship in 1932 and was runner-up in 1934. He was also involved in the famous run-off for the first world championship in 1936. He qualified for all three pre-War World finals. 
He was also instrumental in making Belle Vue the outstanding pre-War team, winning the National League four times and the National Trophy five times.
Even after the War he was still a top rider, averaging 10.93 in 1946. 
Undoubtedly one of England's finest ever riders

[Sidney the robin]

49 minutes ago, norbold said:

I wouldn't say Langton has gone under the radar. He won the Star Riders'' Championship in 1932 and was runner-up in 1934. He was also involved in the famous run-off for the first world championship in 1936. He qualified for all three pre-War World finals. 
He was also instrumental in making Belle Vue the outstanding pre-War team, winning the National League four times and the National Trophy five times.
Even after the War he was still a top rider, averaging 10.93 in 1946. 
Undoubtedly one of England's finest ever riders

Totally right Norbold yet a Belle Vue top five riders  over time  have consisted of Ivan, Peter Craven, Peter Collins, Jason Crump, Fundin.Why Fundin? baffling great rider yet Langton,Parker are not mentioned baffled Norbold.

[Sidney the robin]

1 hour ago, iris123 said:

Interesting rider Sid. One of the 2 top Americans along with Art Pechar in those early years. Came over to Hamburg in 1929 when he was serving a ban in the UK. Big crowd turned up to see him challenge Ginger Lees, who was the 'local' favourite and track specialist and he apparently gave Lees little chance. Turned up at the start of the next season billed as 'world champion' !!! Which he apparently won in Argentina, I think. Class act and very exciting

Eric Langton Jack Parker Iris your thoughts ? who was better Langton is a rider who fascinates me along with Tommy Croombs.

[Chadster]

5 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

Totally right Norbold yet a Belle Vue top five riders  over time  have consisted of Ivan, Peter Craven, Peter Collins, Jason Crump, Fundin.Why Fundin? baffling great rider yet Langton,Parker are not mentioned baffled Norbold.

Presumably they were the riders who won world championships when riding for Belle Vue? I know 4 did. What about Crump?

[Sidney the robin]

1 minute ago, Chadster said:

Presumably they were the riders who won world championships when riding for Belle Vue? I know 4 did. What about Crump?

Good point just thought why did Mr Langton never get a mention saying that Chadster all great riders.

[Chadster]

4 minutes ago, Sidney the robin said:

Good point just thought why did Mr Langton never get a mention saying that Chadster all great riders.

The evidence quoted here supports the idea that Langton was one of Beklle Vue's greatest riders but very few if any of us will have seen him race, whereas I've seen 4 of thee 'famous 5' and, while I never saw Craven ride, his exploits in the World Championship and his tragic death mean thet he's well known.

[iris123]

Would be interesting in some cases to see how fans voted, if they ever did back in the 40s or 50s. Not only at Belle Vue, but a lot of the clubs

[norbold]

 "Greatest ever" lists always tend to favour the more recent riders as people will have direct experience of seeing them. For those further back in time, all we can go by are their records and contemporary reports of their races. It's not surprising that most people tend to favour those they have seen.

I would guess the only person who may have seen Eric Langton here is Gustix, possibly Mick the Muppet.

[iris123]

Of course, that is why I wondered how the fans of the period rated Langton and Parker against each other and compared to the other riders of the time. How journalists of the period rated them. That would probably be more enlightening than how or someone else who never saw them rated them

[chunky]

12 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

Just the man to ask  Norbold, was it a big shock when Frank Charles beat the great Tom Farndon at Belle  Vue in the Star championships in 1935.??Ps sorry about Tauser did he have a brother???

Interesting you should mention Frank Charles. On another thread recently, you were talking about riders we lost between 1935 and 1957, and norbold mentioned those who died off-track. Frank Charles was another great who could be added to the list, losing his life in a gliding accident in 1939.

[norbold]

9 hours ago, iris123 said:

Of course, that is why I wondered how the fans of the period rated Langton and Parker against each other and compared to the other riders of the time. How journalists of the period rated them. That would probably be more enlightening than how or someone else who never saw them rated them

There are Stenner rankings from 1946 - 1954 and then the Speedway Star rankings from 1956 onwards.

[Sidney the robin]

7 hours ago, chunky said:

Interesting you should mention Frank Charles. On another thread recently, you were talking about riders we lost between 1935 and 1957, and norbold mentioned those who died off-track. Frank Charles was another great who could be added to the list, losing his life in a gliding accident in 1939.

I didn't know that Chunky about Frank Charles, the point that Iris made is a great one wouldn't it be good to hear how the respected journalists of there day rated the Langton's,Parker's , ( etc of this world.I have a picture of Langton looking rather gloomy with Lionel Vann Praag i have often heard that there run off for the Championship  could been rigged maybe that is a myth I don't know.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Sidney the robin