Daniel Smith Posted October 13, 2020 Report Share Posted October 13, 2020 3-2-1-0 is perfectly fine in team events. No way should more points be awarded for 2nd-3rd over a guy winning the race. What should be don't is bonus points for team riding in 1st & 2nd only then these are used if count back is required. The aim in Speedway should always be 'win races & look after your team', never 'look after your team & let them win races'. What you could do is make it more of a killer for rider's finishing last with 5-3-2-0. Nobody would want to be 8-2'd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 12 hours ago, Ben91 said: Team riding is dead in fairness. But the thought process is that not finishing last is more important than finishing first in pairs racing and that makes perfect sense. I'll agree with you that generally it is, l don't know if you saw the Polish play off final but there were 2 clear examples of how to and how not to team ride. When Gorzow were struggling to build up any kind of lead during their home leg I remember 1 race where Wozniak was struggling to hold 2nd place while Zmarlik was blasting around 30 yards clear at the front and Wozniak really could have done with his help. Then the best bit of team riding I've seen in years was Pawlicki doing all he could to get Pludra home for the win in the final race of the season, was a joy to watch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC71 Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 35 minutes ago, iainb said: I'll agree with you that generally it is, l don't know if you saw the Polish play off final but there were 2 clear examples of how to and how not to team ride. When Gorzow were struggling to build up any kind of lead during their home leg I remember 1 race where Wozniak was struggling to hold 2nd place while Zmarlik was blasting around 30 yards clear at the front and Wozniak really could have done with his help. Then the best bit of team riding I've seen in years was Pawlicki doing all he could to get Pludra home for the win in the final race of the season, was a joy to watch. Wasn't it just........ I was even shouting at my laptop 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 3 hours ago, iainb said: I'll agree with you that generally it is, l don't know if you saw the Polish play off final but there were 2 clear examples of how to and how not to team ride. When Gorzow were struggling to build up any kind of lead during their home leg I remember 1 race where Wozniak was struggling to hold 2nd place while Zmarlik was blasting around 30 yards clear at the front and Wozniak really could have done with his help. Then the best bit of team riding I've seen in years was Pawlicki doing all he could to get Pludra home for the win in the final race of the season, was a joy to watch. Agree regarding Pawlicki brilliant bit of team riding.Trouble nowadays most riders take “hump” about another riders trying to slow them up when team riding occurs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwright71 Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 With the rules as they are , am I right in thinking that with Dan Bewley named as the u21 rider, one of GB's senior riders will not be required to take any rides in the meeting if Bewley is used as their substitute in every ride ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, Fromafar said: Agree regarding Pawlicki brilliant bit of team riding.Trouble nowadays most riders take “hump” about another riders trying to slow them up when team riding occurs. Anything seems to go in Poland though, I think it was Pawlicki that nearly put Zmarzlik through the fence In one race and they were having a big love in down the back straight after the race... In this country they'd be rolling around on the track fighting each other 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 7 minutes ago, iwright71 said: With the rules as they are , am I right in thinking that with Dan Bewley named as the u21 rider, one of GB's senior riders will not be required to take any rides in the meeting if Bewley is used as their substitute in every ride ? Yes he can take all the rides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 It was actually heat 14 but for those that haven't seen it: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 I'd be very surprised if we saw anything like this in the SON... Especially as Pawlicki isn't even riding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 15 hours ago, Ben91 said: Team riding is dead in fairness. But the thought process is that not finishing last is more important than finishing first in pairs racing and that makes perfect sense. There has been plenty of examples in Poland this year where team riding is very much alive. Many times I can think of when Grigori Laguta, Bartosz Zmarzlik (usually with Jack Holder) and Piotr Pawlicki have all team ridden with their partners in great fashion. Oskar Fajfer is another in Division 1 who is always looking for his team mate. There was a race recently when he was trying to team ride Kevin Fajfer home for a 5-1 before Jonas Jeppeson pipped Kevin on the run to the line, but it was almost perfection from Oskar. Granted it's not as often you see it anymore, but there is some riders who still absolutely nail it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 23 minutes ago, Najjer said: There has been plenty of examples in Poland this year where team riding is very much alive. Many times I can think of when Grigori Laguta, Bartosz Zmarzlik (usually with Jack Holder) and Piotr Pawlicki have all team ridden with their partners in great fashion. Oskar Fajfer is another in Division 1 who is always looking for his team mate. There was a race recently when he was trying to team ride Kevin Fajfer home for a 5-1 before Jonas Jeppeson pipped Kevin on the run to the line, but it was almost perfection from Oskar. Granted it's not as often you see it anymore, but there is some riders who still absolutely nail it. It depends what you define as team riding, often commentators on TV say a rider is team riding if they see them so much as glance at their team partner... This for me is not team riding 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 35 minutes ago, iainb said: Anything seems to go in Poland though, I think it was Pawlicki that nearly put Zmarzlik through the fence In one race and they were having a big love in down the back straight after the race... In this country they'd be rolling around on the track fighting each other It was,Zmarzlik is a hard charger but he can take it back.Emil gave him a hard thump last week-end and they were having a laugh about it.Emil is the same never seems to get upset at the rough stuff.I really like the Polish racing ,there’s a lot more room for manoeuvre with track width.It’s a different game to the racing in GB. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 11 minutes ago, Fromafar said: It was,Zmarzlik is a hard charger but he can take it back.Emil gave him a hard thump last week-end and they were having a laugh about it.Emil is the same never seems to get upset at the rough stuff.I really like the Polish racing ,there’s a lot more room for manoeuvre with track width.It’s a different game to the racing in GB. Me too - The cut back seems to be a thing of the past in this country yet that has to be the most common overtake in Poland. I think the racing and sheer aggression is unrivalled in Poland personally. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Najjer said: There has been plenty of examples in Poland this year where team riding is very much alive. Many times I can think of when Grigori Laguta, Bartosz Zmarzlik (usually with Jack Holder) and Piotr Pawlicki have all team ridden with their partners in great fashion. Oskar Fajfer is another in Division 1 who is always looking for his team mate. There was a race recently when he was trying to team ride Kevin Fajfer home for a 5-1 before Jonas Jeppeson pipped Kevin on the run to the line, but it was almost perfection from Oskar. Granted it's not as often you see it anymore, but there is some riders who still absolutely nail it. Yes and all with 3-2-1-0 scoring ... The absolute bedrock of proper speedway. Edited October 14, 2020 by Grand Central 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 On 10/13/2020 at 7:39 AM, Ben91 said: Pairs racing should use the 4-3-2-0 points format as this encourages team riding. Why it isn’t used in the SON is beyond me. The whole two day event coming down to a single final heat is also farcical but the rules are the same for every team entering. Imagine the football World Cup final going to a penalty shoot out every time regardless of the final score of the match though. Stupid right? That’s Speedway. My example of why your 4-3-2-0 points format Is flawed is ,imagine Lambert ,Kemp v Emil &Artem,if Lambert gated,you can’t believe that they would make any effort to catch him, they would Just take the points from Kemp,and that’s what would happen in a number of Heats with the weaker teams in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
customhouseregular Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 Am I missing something here?. Why would the Russians settle for 5-4 when they could have 7-2?. Surely the more points increases the chances of winning the title. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 6 hours ago, JC71 said: Wasn't it just........ I was even shouting at my laptop I don't think he was team riding at all, just trying not to be passed himself. The guy in red was always going to win the race and Pawlicki was vulnerable on the outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nw42 Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 48 minutes ago, SPEEDY69 said: I don't think he was team riding at all, just trying not to be passed himself. The guy in red was always going to win the race and Pawlicki was vulnerable on the outside. I disagree, Pawlicki could've cleared off on lap 2 bend 3, it was clear to see he was nursing his team mate round, which in turn made him vulnerable, excellent example of team riding imo. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 2 hours ago, Fromafar said: My example of why your 4-3-2-0 points format Is flawed is ,imagine Lambert ,Kemp v Emil &Artem,if Lambert gated,you can’t believe that they would make any effort to catch him, they would Just take the points from Kemp,and that’s what would happen in a number of Heats with the weaker teams in them. That doesn’t make the system flawed, it’s just an example of teams that aren’t evenly matched. That is always going to happen in international meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted October 14, 2020 Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, Ben91 said: That doesn’t make the system flawed, it’s just an example of teams that aren’t evenly matched. That is always going to happen in international meetings. Maybe the wrong phrase,but it idea of that system won’t help the entertainment factor .IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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