BSI lose GPs

[PHILIPRISING]

1 hour ago, Daniel Smith said:

That's my point. It is no way proven to be a bigger money spinner than any other GP. It's a myth. 

IT'S certainly not a myth. 

[f-s-p]

14 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

Discovery will be utilising the team running the SEC series are they not? They are 'the Poles' I was referring to.

Discovery are far more shrewd with their overheads. They'll never spend a penny more then they want. With all the sports they have rights to they operate at the bare minimum required

 

What are the positive's of changing BSI people to One Sport people? Why does it need to be done? Discovery will own it all but since the meetings are under FIM, Morris will continue to be the clerk of the course and lead local people who actually make the GP happen.

Why would it be One Sport, what have they done to earn the right to do anything at GP level?

 

[IainB]

19 hours ago, bendover said:

Not at all, my point is we pay over the odds for tickets in this country. 

We as a nation are too gullible when it comes to ticket prices for all sporting events. For example, People constantly complain about prices to watch Premiership football yet all the stadia are full with waiting lists for season tickets at many clubs. 

In fact, if you read through the Cardiff GP threads on here people are always moaning about the price of a ticket but still go.

I paid £19 last year, always do, fantastic value!

[PHILIPRISING]

5 hours ago, f-s-p said:

What are the positive's of changing BSI people to One Sport people? Why does it need to be done? Discovery will own it all but since the meetings are under FIM, Morris will continue to be the clerk of the course and lead local people who actually make the GP happen.

Why would it be One Sport, what have they done to earn the right to do anything at GP level?

 

BSI people work for IMG so they cannot just carry on unless Discovery try and acquire the current team. For the record: Phil Morris is Race Director... he would not be happy being demoted to Clerk of the Course

[tyretrax]

24 minutes ago, PHILIPRISING said:

BSI people work for IMG so they cannot just carry on unless Discovery try and acquire the current team. For the record: Phil Morris is Race Director... he would not be happy being demoted to Clerk of the Course

Demoted to raker would still be too good for him.

[hobnob]

1 hour ago, tyretrax said:

Demoted to raker would still be too good for him.

Nothing wrong with Phil does his job well and a bloody nice bloke

[iris123]

3 minutes ago, hobnob said:

Nothing wrong with Phil does his job well and a bloody nice bloke

Not very popular in Glasgow though, I think

[fatface]

21 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

That's my point. It is no way proven to be a bigger money spinner than any other GP. It's a myth. 

The new rights holders would be off their heads to jettison Cardiff. It's a proven money maker with a loyal base, the event template is long embedded and with the safety net of (rumoured) seven figure support from the Welsh Government, it's a classic no brainer.

Broadly, I think BSI have done a good job with the GPs. With venues like Warsaw, Cardiff, Stockholm, Copenhagen and the like, they have moved the World Championships on significantly from the fading embers of the old one-off finals and the early GP series at Coventry, Pocking and the like. Live World Championship speedway on live television is now taken for granted as are some of the plush stadia it takes place in. 25 years ago, the world championship was in a very different place, despite what some fans and their rose-tinted monkey masks would say.

But, I agree that there has been some stagnation in recent years and some freshening up could be a good thing. A more global series with new venues and new markets would be a welcome development. 

Good luck to One Sport, I sincerely hope they make a great breakthrough. Biased I may be, but a quality SGP stands fair comparison with any major motorsport world championship and is - I believe- a great product. My fear is that they will discover why BSI had difficulty in establishing any long-term sustainability in new markets and regressed to the reliable core markets of Polish, Swedish and British audiences. Put it this way, I wouldn't invest any of my own money into SGP's potential international growth. 

Edited December 18, 2019 by falcace

[Wee Eck]

23 hours ago, BWitcher said:

Really?

How many fingers do you have on your hand.. 

Off the top of my head.. Wolves, Norwich, West Ham, Man Utd, Liverpool, Brighton... six teams that are sold out for every home game this season.

Add in Leicester, Chelsea, Aston Villa, Man City, Tottenham, Bournemouth, Everton, Arsenal to the above.

Crystal Palace almost every game.

Watford for most, almost full in the others.

So at least 14 teams with full stadiums for every single home game... and most of the others full in most games.



 

I must have 14 fingers then! The comment made was about full stadia, not nearly full. The only one that sells out for every match is also the largest - Manchester United with 74,879. 

[BWitcher]

10 minutes ago, Wee Eck said:

I must have 14 fingers then! The comment made was about full stadia, not nearly full. The only one that sells out for every match is also the largest - Manchester United with 74,879. 

And I've told you that Wolves, Norwich, West Ham, Man Utd, Liverpool, Brighton, Leicester, Chelsea, Aston Villa, Man City, Tottenham and Everton have all sold out for every home match.

Crystal Palace have sold out for most of theirs, Watford for most of theirs.

The other teams have all sold out for many of their games.

So just taking the 14 that sell out every game, thats approx 14 x 8.. gives you 112 matches.. you've got quite a few fingers there. 

Your statement was utterly wrong, accept it and move on.

[Daniel Smith]

20 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

IT'S certainly not a myth. 

 

24 minutes ago, falcace said:

The new rights holders would be off their heads to jettison Cardiff. It's a proven money maker with a loyal base, the event template is long embedded and with the safety net of (rumoured) seven figure support from the Welsh Government, it's a classic no brainer.

Broadly, I think BSI have done a good job with the GPs. With venues like Warsaw, Cardiff, Stockholm, Copenhagen and the like, they have moved the World Championships on significantly from the fading embers of the old one-off finals and the early GP series at Coventry, Pocking and the like. Live World Championship speedway on live television is now taken for granted as are some of the plush stadia it takes place in. 25 years ago, the world championship was in a very different place, despite what some fans and their rose-tinted monkey masks would say.

But, I agree that there has been some stagnation in recent years and some freshening up could be a good thing. A more global series with new venues and new markets would be a welcome development. 

Good luck to One Sport, I sincerely hope they make a great breakthrough. Biased I may be, but a quality SGP stands fair comparison with any major motorsport world championship and is - I believe- a great product. My fear is that they will discover why BSI had difficulty in establishing any long-term sustainability in new markets and regressed to the reliable core markets of Polish, Swedish and British audiences. Put it this way, I wouldn't invest any of my own money into SGP's potential international growth. 

Where's the evidence Cardiff is a money spinner? 

It's only what perceived by what you see and hear. 

I'd almost guarantee the financial figures would actually tell you a different story. Cardiff is/was BSI's big annual sales & marketing event. 

What BSI/IMG has done for the GP's is not in question. The question is the value to the Discovery group to continue with a BSI/IMG marketing project. 

Discovery may find their huge marketing project belongs at an indoor stadium in the USA.

Unless proven with finacial profit figures year on year, Cardiff is a 'MYTH' as the BSI money spinner. 

[Wee Eck]

43 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

And I've told you that Wolves, Norwich, West Ham, Man Utd, Liverpool, Brighton, Leicester, Chelsea, Aston Villa, Man City, Tottenham and Everton have all sold out for every home match.

Crystal Palace have sold out for most of theirs, Watford for most of theirs.

The other teams have all sold out for many of their games.

So just taking the 14 that sell out every game, thats approx 14 x 8.. gives you 112 matches.. you've got quite a few fingers there. 

Your statement was utterly wrong, accept it and move on.

Check the official stats. I did. Anyway, it’s irrelevant to Speedway so no need to be rude

[BWitcher]

Just now, Wee Eck said:

Check the official stats. I did. Anyway, it’s irrelevant to Speedway so no need to be rude

I already have.

Are you seriously claiming Man Utd is the ONLY club who have sellout crowds every match?

I haven't been rude. Simply corrected you. If you want to act the fool and continue to perpetuate your made up nonsense, go ahead.

[fatface]

1 hour ago, Daniel Smith said:

I'd almost guarantee the financial figures would actually tell you a different story. Cardiff is/was BSI's big annual sales & marketing event. 

Unless proven with finacial profit figures year on year, Cardiff is a 'MYTH' as the BSI money spinner. 

Almost guarantee? Sounds suspiciously like internet tittle tattle, unless of course you do have the balance sheet for Cardiff at your disposal. No, though not. None of us, of course, do. So, let's seek some facts we do know:

1. BSI Speedway make a chunky profit. Over £4m at the last annual accounts:  https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03369723/filing-history

2. The Cardiff GP has been running for 20 years...I think we are a little beyond it being a brand awareness marketing exercise now. See point 1 again...you think BSI would do it if it were not the dollar?

3. The Welsh Government invest £3.9m in major events in Cardiff, but are a little shy when it comes to the specifics of the speedway, but we know their previous grant was £850k to host the event in Cardiff: https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2019-10/ATISN 13379 - internal review .pdf 

Of course, without the black and white balance sheet for Cardiff, it's completely your prerogative to dismiss all of the above. But if you still think it a myth that Cardiff makes serious dough, then you do so knowing BSI are highly profitable business, running a showcase event for 20 years bolstered by significant state support. Think again. 

[PHILIPRISING]

2 hours ago, falcace said:

The new rights holders would be off their heads to jettison Cardiff. It's a proven money maker with a loyal base, the event template is long embedded and with the safety net of (rumoured) seven figure support from the Welsh Government, it's a classic no brainer.

Broadly, I think BSI have done a good job with the GPs. With venues like Warsaw, Cardiff, Stockholm, Copenhagen and the like, they have moved the World Championships on significantly from the fading embers of the old one-off finals and the early GP series at Coventry, Pocking and the like. Live World Championship speedway on live television is now taken for granted as are some of the plush stadia it takes place in. 25 years ago, the world championship was in a very different place, despite what some fans and their rose-tinted monkey masks would say.

But, I agree that there has been some stagnation in recent years and some freshening up could be a good thing. A more global series with new venues and new markets would be a welcome development. 

Good luck to One Sport, I sincerely hope they make a great breakthrough. Biased I may be, but a quality SGP stands fair comparison with any major motorsport world championship and is - I believe- a great product. My fear is that they will discover why BSI had difficulty in establishing any long-term sustainability in new markets and regressed to the reliable core markets of Polish, Swedish and British audiences. Put it this way, I wouldn't invest any of my own money into SGP's potential international growth. 

I REPEAT ... at this stage One Sport aren't involved and there is a very good chance that they won't be. More than evens I would suggest right now.

Edited December 18, 2019 by PHILIPRISING

[PHILIPRISING]

2 minutes ago, falcace said:

Almost guarantee? Sounds suspiciously like internet tittle tattle, unless of course you do have the balance sheet for Cardiff at your disposal. No, though not. None of us, of course, do. So, let's seek some facts we do know:

1. BSI Speedway make a chunky profit. Over £4m at the last annual accounts:  https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03369723/filing-history

2. The Cardiff GP has been running for 20 years...I think we are a little beyond it being a brand awareness marketing exercise now. See point 1 again...you think BSI would do it if it were not the dollar?

3. The Welsh Government invest £3.9m in major events in Cardiff, but are a little shy when it comes to the specifics of the speedway, but we know their previous grant was £850k to host the event in Cardiff: https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2019-10/ATISN 13379 - internal review .pdf 

Of course, without the black and white balance sheet for Cardiff, it's completely your prerogative to dismiss all of the above. But if you still think it a myth that Cardiff makes serious dough, then you do so knowing BSI are highly profitable business, running a showcase event for 20 years bolstered by significant state support. Think again. 

SPOT on...

[stevehone]

Cardiff and Warsaw both need to remain on the calendar, fantastic weekends at both but slightly different reasons.

Cardiff very much a 'mix' in the city before and after, very social, with some good racing mixed in, Warsaw is an amazing atmosphere with a full 55,000 noisy fans and some good racing (although i love the city too).

i just wish it was possible sometime to have the world champion crowned in the UK

Edited December 18, 2019 by stevehone

[f-s-p]

5 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

BSI people work for IMG so they cannot just carry on unless Discovery try and acquire the current team. For the record: Phil Morris is Race Director... he would not be happy being demoted to Clerk of the Course

Why wouldn't they try to acquire the current team? I'd try... I'm sure Morris will forgive me for my error. From what I've seen he's so much hands on the job a raker is as good as a term as a race director.

[Humphrey Appleby]

20 hours ago, falcace said:

Of course, without the black and white balance sheet for Cardiff, it's completely your prerogative to dismiss all of the above. But if you still think it a myth that Cardiff makes serious dough, then you do so knowing BSI are highly profitable business, running a showcase event for 20 years bolstered by significant state support. Think again. 

I suppose it depends on how you define 'high profitable'. A profit of 5-10% on turnover is probably an average return business-wise, although maybe okay in a sports environment; especially for a fairly niche sport. 

I'd have thought BSI makes most of its money through television, sponsorship and licence fees from the Polish GPs, but in order to do so, it needs to put on certain number of GPs which will come with a certain overhead. I think it's fairly clear that the Cardiff GP has historically been something of a showcase - being held in a subsidised stadium, bringing in additional money from the Welsh government and being used to court sponsors and the like. But equally, BSI runs that event and is responsible for its costs, whereas for some of the other GPs these costs are borne by the host promoter. 

[Humphrey Appleby]

On 12/18/2019 at 9:40 PM, PHILIPRISING said:

For the record: Phil Morris is Race Director... he would not be happy being demoted to Clerk of the Course

Isn't a Clerk of the Course essentially supposed to be a local official anyway (i.e. someone familiar with the circuit)? 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Humphrey Appleby