AGM

[DC2]

Just now, woofers said:

There are some that do.
Eastbourne have been very proactive in seeking opinions throughout the year and I have always been able to speak to Ian Jordan after a meeting. They have recently concluded a 21 question survey on their website, with over 300 responses.

I guess it can also be argued that the Poole promotion have listened to the majority of their supporters in making the move to the Championship league.

 

 

LOL quite the opposite. A few said they would still support a CL team so Poole took that as an endorsement!

 

[woofers]

6 minutes ago, DC2 said:

 

LOL quite the opposite. A few said they would still support a CL team so Poole took that as an endorsement!

 

Well I’ll admit that I was guessing, and for some reason you are laughing, so maybe you can quote the numbers?

But from the official Poole website - "The response was immense and overall very supportive towards moving to the lower league.“

[mikebv]

3 hours ago, ch958 said:

problem is, the questions need to be asked of the people not there. I've put this forward countless times but if you offered free tickets in return for email addresses or mobile numbers you would be able to contact both your existing customers and anyone with enough interest to take a free ticket. You could then inform them, advertise to them and generally involve them. I. mean this is like marketing 101, the basics.

I think the ever growing swathes of empty spaces in the stadiums provide a lot of data based feedback all by themselves..

As said before, the Promoters will know the reasons but simply cannot fix them without a radical overhaul of its complete operating model and business plan..

And that isn't on anyone's agenda any time soon I would think..

[DC2]

3 hours ago, Ghosty said:

You must be a blinkered promoter or a deluded fan.........However I think Swindon were one of the less affected teams in 2019 with ONLY 4? of your riders also members of other U.K. teams! but you did have Ellis Perks who was somehow allowed to ride for 3 U.K. teams.

 

Could you tell me why doubling up is a problem?

[chunky]

6 minutes ago, DC2 said:

 

Could you tell me why doubling up is a problem?

I'm with you...

[CountyGround]

3 hours ago, DC2 said:

 

Could you tell me why doubling up is a problem?

The problem as I see it is that fans & sponsors have lost the feeling that the 7 riders representing your club are yours. We have almost completely lost this connection. Most if not all of 2019 championship teams consisted of 7 riders that also represented another U.K. team. This is also a huge problem with credibility when trying to convince newcomers to support our sport. Equally wholesale team changes during the season do the sport great harm as do the huge changes season on season.

Question: As a sponsor would I buy rider X (my local team favorite) a new bike, only for it to be used while riding for another team? NO.

[acef]

8 hours ago, mikebv said:

I think the ever growing swathes of empty spaces in the stadiums provide a lot of data based feedback all by themselves..

As said before, the Promoters will know the reasons but simply cannot fix them without a radical overhaul of its complete operating model and business plan..

And that isn't on anyone's agenda any time soon I would think..

I'm not convinced the promoters do know the reasons. 

 

[acef]

7 hours ago, DC2 said:

 

Could you tell me why doubling up is a problem?

Answer that yourself as a fan. Forget the logistics and the statistics for the sport.

Think like a fan. 

If you do, you will have the answer.

[acef]

Like I said in a previous post. The sport is gone here. 

It's not about evolving anymore. It's not about how to get better.

It's become so bad, it's now about how to keep it going for one more season.

That is not a plan which will ever work.

The sport is losing fans. Losing clubs. Those two things are massive. 

It's done.

[mikebv]

58 minutes ago, acef said:

I'm not convinced the promoters do know the reasons. 

 

They have to..

Newcastle are a classic example of all that is wrong..

Riding on a Sunday (a key day for leisure time) should be a 'shoe in' for such a unique an entertainment as Speedway. .

Especially as that club has had some of the finest riders of all time representing them so have an incredible history..

Instead,  as a Sunday track they must have had nightmares trying to ensure riders turn up, given Sunday has become such a key day for all three Pro leagues in Poland with so many UK contracted riders competing in them..

When Poland became the 'be all and end all' the UK should have just pulled up the drawer-bridge and gone alone...

Instead it went done the path of 'fudge' and 'appeasement'. A subservient "We will work around you" became the mission statement..

Newcastle must have god knows how many difficult variables when trying to get a meeting on. Will their own No1 be available? Or will their opponents No1 be available? And if not, do they run? Or do they run with guests which makes the meeting somewhat contrived? 

Either way the fans (the life blood of the sport) and therefore the club, lose out..

Clubs should just be able to publicise a fixture list, and then market it, safe in the knowledge that all riders will be there, which then ensures a decent crowd can turn up safe in the knowledge they won't feel short changed. ..

UK Speedway should set it's stall out and say "this is us", and build to whatever level it can. On days and nights fans want to (and can) attend..

And not bother about the wider Speedway world as they at the moment play on another level..

Four lads of similar ability per race, with a decent off track entertainment package, at a reasonable value for money admission fee, will tick a lot of boxes for a great many British Speedway fans, (both regulars and, more importantly maybe, non regulars).

Promoters, who are business men and women in their own right, must know that surely?

As lets be honest, it is very, very basic..

Edited November 17, 2019 by mikebv

[Halifaxtiger]

10 hours ago, DC2 said:

 

Could you tell me why doubling up is a problem?

Fixed race nights.

To ensure that riders can double up, leagues have to ride on different nights and that has meant that some have had to change the traditional one for racing.

It genuinely does surprise just how much that affects attendances, but Rye House closed down as  a result, Sheffield went up for sale and Poole dropped out of a league that have graced for decades. 

Edited November 17, 2019 by Halifaxtiger

[Halifaxtiger]

3 hours ago, acef said:

I'm not convinced the promoters do know the reasons. 

 

I am far from convinced that fans do either.

They suggest that points limits, tactical rides, rider replacement and guests cause people to walk away, ignoring the fact that all have been in existence in the sport for half a century.

Cut the prices they say, ignoring the fact that when that has been done clubs have usually sustained heavy financial losses.  

Its too expensive. Belle Vue costs £18 and I see at least one world class rider (usually two) every week. Halifax Town costs £20, and they aren't even in the Football League. By that comparison, speedway is cheap. 

They criticise the play off system, disregarding the fact that it is a huge success in terms of revenue and that it is now common practice elsewhere. 

They compare speedway to other sports, ridiculing its rules, its practices, its procedures. Speedway is about as similar to football as an elephant is to a haddock and any comparison is just as valid. 

I am sure I have even read that speedway should be marketed as a sport for those aged 40 or over, a bit like crown green bowling. Total nonsense. Speedway is for all ages, and should be promoted that way. As to the ageing attendance, I think that's a myth. Barry Bishop told me that less than 15% of his crowds are of pensionable age. 

But the most telling fact is that while some claim to have all the answers, ask them to put their money where their mouth is and they are running for the hills. Quite willing to gamble others funds, they won't stake a single penny on their - occasionally hare brained - schemes, which shows just how confident they are about their success. While I deplore the utter contempt that most - but not all - members of the BSPA have for this forum, they can justifiably point to that in describing us as 'keyboard commandos'. 

All I know is that speedway has to start treating its paying customers as paying customers and not run the sport for the benefit of the riders, because that's how it is at the moment. Even with things as desperate as they are, clubs still find time to treat its fanbase like dirt. Sheffield's Damian Bates, faced with huge criticism over an underperforming team and a dreadful track, found time to slag off the clubs fans last season. Faced with similar criticism over an equally dreadful track, instead of listening Plymouth's Mark Phillips chose to ban those who were being critical. 

When you choose to treat the lifeblood of the sport that way, you get all you deserve. 

[Bagpuss]

16 hours ago, DC2 said:

 

Doubling up is not an issue.

 

Not now the race night issue has been addressed. Doubling up is way down speedways list of problems. 

[foamfence]

8 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

Not now the race night issue has been addressed. Doubling up is way down speedways list of problems. 

But fixed race nights are way up it! Doubling up removes much of the sport's credibility, you see a three quarters empty and decaying stadium on TV and Pearson busily telling everyone how many teams each rider will be riding for this week, It's just Mickey Mouse stuff.

[Bagpuss]

24 minutes ago, foamfence said:

But fixed race nights are way up it! Doubling up removes much of the sport's credibility, you see a three quarters empty and decaying stadium on TV and Pearson busily telling everyone how many teams each rider will be riding for this week, It's just Mickey Mouse stuff.

Loads of reasons ahead of doubling up why speedway is where it is ie poor racing, poor stadia, too expensive etc. I don’t believe doubling up really matters to many people and certainly doesn’t have anything to do with attracting new customers. I accept that fixed race night has had a negative affect on a few tracks but IMO they are essential if people want to avoid fixture clashes both in the UK and abroad. You simply can’t have riders needing to be in two places on the same night like we’ve had before. 

Edited November 17, 2019 by Bagpuss

[foamfence]

3 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

Loads of reasons ahead of doubling up why speedway is where it is ie poor racing, poor stadia, too expensive etc. I don’t believe doubling up really matters to many people and certainly doesn’t have anything to do with attracting new customers. I accept that fixed race night has had a negative affect on a few tracks but IMO they are essential if people want to avoid fixture clashes both in the UK and abroad. You simply can’t have riders needing to be in two places on the same night like we’ve had before. 

Doubling up matters to me but I respect your opinion.

[Bagpuss]

17 minutes ago, foamfence said:

Doubling up matters to me but I respect your opinion.

And I respect yours. Who do you support out of interest? 

I’m a Lynn fan and at various points last season Cook, Riss, Jorgensen, MPT, Proctor, Andersen, S Lambert and Kerr all had teams in the Championship and I can honestly say that it didn’t make me see them any differently in terms of a team representing my club. 

[mikebv]

Sharing riders does  restrict your 'opening hours' as you have to follow the FRN's allocated to you rather than have the autonomy as to when best for you to run to suit your customer base..

Too many team places? Not enough riders? Costs so high so riders need more rides? Too many Professional riders? Promoters wanting to run at too high a level for their income? 

All things that mean 'double upping' is here to stay I would suggest unless the reasons for it are sorted..

And that won't happen any time soon.

From a 'credibility' point of view I don't think it has too much impact.

When you can borrow your biggest rival's best rider for a night, as and when you like, then sharing an employee with another team in a different league isn't going to harm the sport too much.. 

[foamfence]

2 hours ago, Bagpuss said:

And I respect yours. Who do you support out of interest? 

I’m a Lynn fan and at various points last season Cook, Riss, Jorgensen, MPT, Proctor, Andersen, S Lambert and Kerr all had teams in the Championship and I can honestly say that it didn’t make me see them any differently in terms of a team representing my club. 

Redcar but I'm not a frequent visitor, I'm getting on a bit, not always well and unfit to drive, I started in the 50s and would travel all over to the big meetings or away matches for my local Halifax and Bradford clubs.

[1984Star]

4 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:

I am far from convinced that fans do either.

They suggest that points limits, tactical rides, rider replacement and guests cause people to walk away, ignoring the fact that all have been in existence in the sport for half a century.

Cut the prices they say, ignoring the fact that when that has been done clubs have usually sustained heavy financial losses.  

Its too expensive. Belle Vue costs £18 and I see at least one world class rider (usually two) every week. Halifax Town costs £20, and they aren't even in the Football League. By that comparison, speedway is cheap. 

They criticise the play off system, disregarding the fact that it is a huge success in terms of revenue and that it is now common practice elsewhere. 

They compare speedway to other sports, ridiculing its rules, its practices, its procedures. Speedway is about as similar to football as an elephant is to a haddock and any comparison is just as valid. 

I am sure I have even read that speedway should be marketed as a sport for those aged 40 or over, a bit like crown green bowling. Total nonsense. Speedway is for all ages, and should be promoted that way. As to the ageing attendance, I think that's a myth. Barry Bishop told me that less than 15% of his crowds are of pensionable age. 

But the most telling fact is that while some claim to have all the answers, ask them to put their money where their mouth is and they are running for the hills. Quite willing to gamble others funds, they won't stake a single penny on their - occasionally hare brained - schemes, which shows just how confident they are about their success. While I deplore the utter contempt that most - but not all - members of the BSPA have for this forum, they can justifiably point to that in describing us as 'keyboard commandos'. 

All I know is that speedway has to start treating its paying customers as paying customers and not run the sport for the benefit of the riders, because that's how it is at the moment. Even with things as desperate as they are, clubs still find time to treat its fanbase like dirt. Sheffield's Damian Bates, faced with huge criticism over an underperforming team and a dreadful track, found time to slag off the clubs fans last season. Faced with similar criticism over an equally dreadful track, instead of listening Plymouth's Mark Phillips chose to ban those who were being critical. 

When you choose to treat the lifeblood of the sport that way, you get all you deserve. 

Agree with all above.

Eastbourne, I believe it was their last season in the top league. Sent someone  out on a Saturday after to Eastbourne beach to hand out 500 free tickets, of them 500 tickets 12 came back. They had a tick box on the back saying would you have attended without this free ticket, 9 of the tickets had that boxe ticked.