AGM

[Fortythirtyeight]

27 minutes ago, Skidder1 said:

I'm sure the period of grace given to Newcastle is so that a change of ownership can be undertaken (Ged Rathbone??) and for that to be acceptable to bspa.

Ged Rathbone and the BSPA? ( Chairman Rob Godfrey )

no clash there then.

[SteveLyric2]

1 minute ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

Ged Rathbone and the BSPA? ( Chairman Rob Godfrey )

no clash there then.

Yeah but a new board of Directors that could well be much more Rathbone-friendly!!!

[psycho3a]

How can the championship now ever be taken seriously when teams do not race each other an equal number of times... it's either got to be once or twice but not some 3 and some four.. absolute shambles

[Speedtiger]

2 hours ago, Mr Blobby said:

Godfrey in charge, brilliant, the man is corrupt.

Speedway is really doomed....Godfrey is a useless ignorant buffoon...Chapman will go down as the worst BSPA Chairman ever...but Godfrey will soon surpass him 

[cityrebel]

11 minutes ago, psycho3a said:

How can the championship now ever be taken seriously when teams do not race each other an equal number of times... it's either got to be once or twice but not some 3 and some four.. absolute shambles

Wasn't it similar in the Elite league a few years ago. It went down like a lead balloon at the time.

[Doners123]

4 minutes ago, psycho3a said:

How can the championship now ever be taken seriously when teams do not race each other an equal number of times... it's either got to be once or twice but not some 3 and some four.. absolute shambles

Very good point. If you are in a strong group may as well stop your season at the start having have to play them more. 

 

Better of having a 20 team league playing each other home and away once. 

 

Then once the league has finished the top 10 go in to the premiership play off final 1 v 10, 2 v 9 etc etc.

Then winner of that is the premiership champion.

 

The other 10 will then compete for the championship crown. 11th vs 20th and so on and so on. 

 

Only one team per rider no doubling up etc. Each team must then Also have a junior team of NDL standard riders ( 4 per team ) to compete in the meeting afterwards. 3 riders must be under 21 the 4th can be any age. But the team should help being around all the other riders and learning off them. 

 

Should any of your riders be unavailable apart from 1 and 5 you can only use from your Devleopment team. ( but can move your team around so that they go into reserve. 

[ch958]

Did anyone in that meeting, i wonder, object to this ridiculous idea. 22 league matches - whats the fkin problem? why come up with some ludicrous half assed idea like this. 5 1/2 months of lge racing, 2/4 weeks cup/ play offs - mid march to end sept/early oct

[Trotter65]

On 11/14/2019 at 3:24 PM, moxey63 said:

I was just thinking of the 70s at Belle Vue. We had Les Collins, Chris Turner, Jim Brett, etc doubling up. But they were riding in the second division with the intent of moving into the Aces' team a year or tow later.  

What about Steve Finch or Steve Wilcock or Rod Hunter.. They doubled up and never had intention of signing for the Aces. 

[moxey63]

1 hour ago, Trotter65 said:

What about Steve Finch or Steve Wilcock or Rod Hunter.. They doubled up and never had intention of signing for the Aces. 

You are right, there were shady rules back then. But they just seem to have mushroomed so much now. Finch was brought in as a replacement for injured Alan Wilkinson in 1978, Wilcock covered matches for injured Mike Lohmann in 1980, whereas Hunter was a target for Belle Vue but chose to move up with Newcastle in 1984.

You forgot Bobby Beaton, who signed for Aces in 1982 so the then Belle Vue manager Ian Thomas could use him on an assessed 7.50 average for his Newcastle team in the second league.

Apart from the three you mentioned, I don't recall any other riders during that era who rode for Belle Vue but hadn't plans on racing full time for the club.

Speedway does itself no favours with the stand-in utility.  It is a sticky plaster so promoters don't have to find proper replacements.

Edited November 15, 2019 by moxey63

[DC2]

39 minutes ago, ch958 said:

Did anyone in that meeting, i wonder, object to this ridiculous idea. 22 league matches - whats the fkin problem? why come up with some ludicrous half assed idea like this. 5 1/2 months of lge racing, 2/4 weeks cup/ play offs - mid march to end sept/early oct

 

They’re saving money on travel costs and hoping they might get 100 away supporters at the “local” derbies.

A couple of grand a meeting is big money these days.

[mikebv]

15 minutes ago, DC2 said:

 

They’re saving money on travel costs and hoping they might get 100 away supporters at the “local” derbies.

A couple of grand a meeting is big money these days.

An idea thats been mentioned on here many times..

Makes perfect sense to have your more 'local' rivals visit more often given how just a few extra fans in can make such a difference these days as you say..

Also getting the supporters cup done and dusted early too rather than having all the 'finals' being ran at the end of the season is another 'no brainer' we have suggested..

And looking at letting the Champs keep the same team from 2021?

Good to see we are taken notice of...

Maybe we should charge a fee?

Edited November 15, 2019 by mikebv

[moxey63]

37 minutes ago, DC2 said:

 

They’re saving money on travel costs and hoping they might get 100 away supporters at the “local” derbies.

A couple of grand a meeting is big money these days.

Saving money on travel costs? Can't the riders arrange with supporters to take them to matches?

[DC2]

Just now, moxey63 said:

Saving money on travel costs? Can't the riders arrange with supporters to take them to matches?

 

Don’t be daft, they’d need seven.  

 

[flagrag]

My understanding was that the BSPA Directors were not satisfied with the business plan that Plymouth put forward and that couldn’t guarantee the required bond would be lodged by 31/12

Also for the Chairmanship some clubs wanted Damian Bates to do it but with his business interests couldn’t commit to it.

[IronScorpion]

So, these last 2 pages based on the statement from the AGM is peoples opinions.

 There is no fact that if Newcastle do not run then Plymouth will take their place needing a restructuring of the North/South divide.

With regards to the Chairmanship, Rob Godfrey has been fair & put forward a case that the rules were adhered to that were put in place at the 2017 AGM for the 2018 season. Some teams were not present at that AGM but they should have stuck to the rules in place rather than being confrontational in changing race nights when the fixtures were made. Damian Bates made it known this year that his involvement in speedway made it difficult with his business interests, probably being similar in 2020.

 Has anyone posted true facts yet on the AGM that is not their own opinion?

[RobMcCaffery]

The new system for the Championship is based on how all American professional team sports work bar MLS. The leagues are split into conferences and a team's results, while including games against teams from other conferences the league is split into several sections and a team only competes with the teams in its own conference for play-off spots.

There's nothing to say in the AGM report that the following is due to happen which is worrying, but if not they are iin trouble..

So we have 12 teams, including either Newcastle or Plymouth. These are split into two conferences/sub-divisions. All 12 race 32 matches, 20 against their fellow conference members and 12 against sides from the other conference. 

Here's the key - you run two league tables, one for each conference and the top three from each qualify for the play-offs. Now, if we only had an odd number of teams it still works. Say if we have five in the north and six in the south the northern teams ride 28 times, 16 against fellow northerners and still 12 against the southerners, making 28. The southerners will still race 20 times against their fellow conference members, but only 10 against the northerners, making 30 matches.

So, at season's end, five northern teams will have ridden 28 matches but the southerners 30. If there was just one table that would be ridiculous but if all five teams competing for the three play-off places are only compared with each other it doesn't matter if the third placed team qualifies with fewer points than the fourth placed team in the south it's probably due to the latter having ridden more matches.

Run two league tables, one for teams that ride 28 times and one for those who ride 30 matches and take the top three from each. Whether the north division races 30, 32 or 132 matches, as long as in league terms they're only competing with teams that have ridden the same matches it'll be academic. Running one league table is where the problems start.

And you thought the match points system was complex.....

The logic of Edinburgh travelling twice to Glasgow but only once to Kent is obvious. The alternative is to run a one home, one away league plus a pair of early season regional leagues as we have before - and what was the verdict? Dismissed as 'meaningless. 

Realistically the only way to prove the  point is to run the season, let people realise that it's only the teams in their own half of the country that they're initially competing with in league terms - until the essential play-offs.

One thing that gets avoided here is, say we run with 12 tracks in 2020 then by some miracle we get an application from a revived Rye House, or Oxford or even a better funded and planned Plymouth bid for 2021 they wouldn't have to be rejected for fear of running a league with odd numbers!

As far as the supporters are concerned until the play-offs they are competing in a five or six team league with extra competitive league matches to give a 14 or 16 match home schedule which is a damn sight better than the paltry 10 in 2019!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by RobMcCaffery

[Gunner85]

Another agm  which does not take on the real problems of Speedway moving forward.

essentially status quo and the promoters burying their heads in the sand once again.

i despair with the BSPA

[acef]

How has he arrived at the conclusion that supporters don't want change? Has each club been active in getting this feedback from actual humans? You know those of us who actually go through the turnstile 

It's just a blatant lie. It's a cop out to appease people but I see through the s##t.

They haven't got a clue. Non of them. 

This sport is never coming back. It's just drip fed life support.

[mikebv]

4 hours ago, acef said:

How has he arrived at the conclusion that supporters don't want change? Has each club been active in getting this feedback from actual humans? You know those of us who actually go through the turnstile 

It's just a blatant lie. It's a cop out to appease people but I see through the s##t.

They haven't got a clue. Non of them. 

This sport is never coming back. It's just drip fed life support.

Of course it is, but let's be honest we know that anyway..

They have done pretty much the only thing they can..

ie deliver more meetings with 'local' rivals without increasing any costs..

Rob was 100% right when he said fans don't want "tinkering"...

They want radical change!!!! 

Simply not going to happen though..

It is what it is, it won't change because it either can't or those who run it are not capable of making it happen...

Lets be fair, if things could change then those who run the sport would have done so by now such are the glaring deficiencies...

We have what we have, (again), survival and getting everyone through to the end of the season is the 'measure of success'. "Bringing everyone to the table"..

Rinse and Repeat once more just like it has been for at least a decade, probably more, and will be 'ad infinitum'...

Just accept it, it would make life easier.. 

And with the SGP, the SON, the SEC, Poland and Sweden beamed live into our living rooms for a great many weeks of the season, we can still watch a host of excellent, 'properly ran' Speedway....

And can then get the added bonus of watching the domestic offering off Eurosport for what it is...

And with the NSS, Peterborough, Swindon (and Sheffield with Andrew Meridith now doing the track), showing quite a few matches, I am sure there should be some very decent racing from the UK..

Sit back in your armchair, crack open a can, and just enjoy watching the racing...

Since 2000 in just 19 years, TWELVE clubs have gone (maybe THIRTEEN if Newcastle don't run) and only SIX have come in, therefore lets make the most of what's left...

(While we still can looking at that closure rate trend)...

Edited November 16, 2019 by mikebv

[Halifaxtiger]

7 hours ago, IronScorpion said:

So, these last 2 pages based on the statement from the AGM is peoples opinions.

 There is no fact that if Newcastle do not run then Plymouth will take their place needing a restructuring of the North/South divide.

With regards to the Chairmanship, Rob Godfrey has been fair & put forward a case that the rules were adhered to that were put in place at the 2017 AGM for the 2018 season. Some teams were not present at that AGM but they should have stuck to the rules in place rather than being confrontational in changing race nights when the fixtures were made. Damian Bates made it known this year that his involvement in speedway made it difficult with his business interests, probably being similar in 2020.

 Has anyone posted true facts yet on the AGM that is not their own opinion?

I would have said that about 99% of comment on here is opinion, and about 50% of that opinion is speculation.

But if Newcastle don't run, the northern teams will have two less league fixtures than the southern ones and that's in the same league. That can be remedied overnight by allowing Plymouth in and changing the groupings slightly. 

My own view of the enforced change of race nights in 2018 - after the season had started and after fixtures had not only been published but run -  is that it was one of the worst examples of self interest that I have ever seen in speedway, and that's in a sport where self interest is nigh on all encompassing.  

Personally, I think the regional split is a good idea even if that means a lopsided number of times that teams will race against each other. 22 fixtures - it would be 24 if Plymouth were accepted - is too many, even if all other competitions were dropped. It allows more meetings as a whole, more local meetings creating more revenue and does not substantially increase travelling costs.