AGM

[DC2]

12 hours ago, CountyGround said:

The problem as I see it is that fans & sponsors have lost the feeling that the 7 riders representing your club are yours. We have almost completely lost this connection. Most if not all of 2019 championship teams consisted of 7 riders that also represented another U.K. team. This is also a huge problem with credibility when trying to convince newcomers to support our sport. Equally wholesale team changes during the season do the sport great harm as do the huge changes season on season.

Question: As a sponsor would I buy rider X (my local team favorite) a new bike, only for it to be used while riding for another team? NO.

 

Sponsorship

I can answer your question quite easily by saying that there are about 50 doubling up riders all of whom have sponsors.

So sponsorship isn’t an issue.

Exclusivity of riders

Regarding the 7 riders being “yours”, I’m not bothered at all.

I suspect Billy McNeil, Norman Hunter, Mike Kean, Geoff Bouchard, David Ashby and Jan Andersen might have ridden for other teams, doubling down or abroad, in the 1970s, but I wasn’t aware of it when I watched them riding for Swindon and wouldn’t have cared if they did.

I presume you have no problem with our foreign riders riding for clubs abroad, or even our British riders riding abroad, so why does it matter if they ride for clubs in a different division here?

A sense of ownership would far better be achieved by allowing clubs to keep their seven riders rather than have to rebuild due to a new team building average limit for the new season.

Fixed race nights

Fixed race nights might have been a problem for Poole and Sheffield (although I think poor performances early in the season contributed more to lower attendances), but they have now moved to their preferred race nights, so that’s not a problem now.

Some Belle Vue fans complain about FRN but again they didn’t make the play offs; let’s see if their crowds improve this season.

Edited November 17, 2019 by DC2

[Piotr Pyszny]

4 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:

I am far from convinced that fans do either.

Problem is, it's very difficult to ascertain the views of former fans who have voted with their feet over the last three decades.

Speedway's existing, year-on-year declining audience won't keep the sport alive.

It needs to reach out to former fans (extremely difficult to win back once the habit has gone) and, more importantly, those who have never watched speedway. The biggest obstacle with the latter is most of Britain has no idea what speedway is. Outside the isolated pockets of speedway activity, the sport's media profile is nonexistent.

Edited November 17, 2019 by Piotr Pyszny

[DC2]

5 minutes ago, Piotr Pyszny said:

Problem is, it's very difficult to ascertain the views of former fans who have voted with their feet over the last three decades.

Speedway's existing, year-on-year declining audience won't keep the sport alive.

It needs to reach out to former fans (extremely difficult to win back once the habit has gone) and, more importantly, those who have never watched speedway. The biggest obstacle with the latter is most of Britain has no idea what speedway is. Outside the isolated pockets of speedway activity, the sport's media profile is nonexistent.

 

I think you’ll find there are plenty of former fans on this forum who don’t go to speedway anymore and who have vociferous opinions about its ills, but they tinker around the edges as much as the promoters.

“It’s all over by the first bend” and “Follow the leader” processional heats are the biggest ills.

If the racing really were “thrill a minute” with passing and re-passing, more people would go.

[lewy]

Total joke of management committee and chairman self interest at it's best,should be ashamed of themselves !!!

[coldace]

5 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:

I am far from convinced that fans do either.

They suggest that points limits, tactical rides, rider replacement and guests cause people to walk away, ignoring the fact that all have been in existence in the sport for half a century.

Cut the prices they say, ignoring the fact that when that has been done clubs have usually sustained heavy financial losses.  

Its too expensive. Belle Vue costs £18 and I see at least one world class rider (usually two) every week. Halifax Town costs £20, and they aren't even in the Football League. By that comparison, speedway is cheap. 

They criticise the play off system, disregarding the fact that it is a huge success in terms of revenue and that it is now common practice elsewhere. 

They compare speedway to other sports, ridiculing its rules, its practices, its procedures. Speedway is about as similar to football as an elephant is to a haddock and any comparison is just as valid. 

I am sure I have even read that speedway should be marketed as a sport for those aged 40 or over, a bit like crown green bowling. Total nonsense. Speedway is for all ages, and should be promoted that way. As to the ageing attendance, I think that's a myth. Barry Bishop told me that less than 15% of his crowds are of pensionable age. 

But the most telling fact is that while some claim to have all the answers, ask them to put their money where their mouth is and they are running for the hills. Quite willing to gamble others funds, they won't stake a single penny on their - occasionally hare brained - schemes, which shows just how confident they are about their success. While I deplore the utter contempt that most - but not all - members of the BSPA have for this forum, they can justifiably point to that in describing us as 'keyboard commandos'. 

All I know is that speedway has to start treating its paying customers as paying customers and not run the sport for the benefit of the riders, because that's how it is at the moment. Even with things as desperate as they are, clubs still find time to treat its fanbase like dirt. Sheffield's Damian Bates, faced with huge criticism over an underperforming team and a dreadful track, found time to slag off the clubs fans last season. Faced with similar criticism over an equally dreadful track, instead of listening Plymouth's Mark Phillips chose to ban those who were being critical. 

When you choose to treat the lifeblood of the sport that way, you get all you deserve. 

Very well said. 

[Vince]

5 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:

I am far from convinced that fans do either.

They suggest that points limits, tactical rides, rider replacement and guests cause people to walk away, ignoring the fact that all have been in existence in the sport for half a century.

Cut the prices they say, ignoring the fact that when that has been done clubs have usually sustained heavy financial losses.  

Its too expensive. Belle Vue costs £18 and I see at least one world class rider (usually two) every week. Halifax Town costs £20, and they aren't even in the Football League. By that comparison, speedway is cheap. 

They criticise the play off system, disregarding the fact that it is a huge success in terms of revenue and that it is now common practice elsewhere. 

They compare speedway to other sports, ridiculing its rules, its practices, its procedures. Speedway is about as similar to football as an elephant is to a haddock and any comparison is just as valid. 

I am sure I have even read that speedway should be marketed as a sport for those aged 40 or over, a bit like crown green bowling. Total nonsense. Speedway is for all ages, and should be promoted that way. As to the ageing attendance, I think that's a myth. Barry Bishop told me that less than 15% of his crowds are of pensionable age. 

But the most telling fact is that while some claim to have all the answers, ask them to put their money where their mouth is and they are running for the hills. Quite willing to gamble others funds, they won't stake a single penny on their - occasionally hare brained - schemes, which shows just how confident they are about their success. While I deplore the utter contempt that most - but not all - members of the BSPA have for this forum, they can justifiably point to that in describing us as 'keyboard commandos'. 

All I know is that speedway has to start treating its paying customers as paying customers and not run the sport for the benefit of the riders, because that's how it is at the moment. Even with things as desperate as they are, clubs still find time to treat its fanbase like dirt. Sheffield's Damian Bates, faced with huge criticism over an underperforming team and a dreadful track, found time to slag off the clubs fans last season. Faced with similar criticism over an equally dreadful track, instead of listening Plymouth's Mark Phillips chose to ban those who were being critical. 

When you choose to treat the lifeblood of the sport that way, you get all you deserve. 

The best summing up of the situation for Speedway at this time I have probably ever read on here (obviously by best I mean that agrees with my own views  )

[Halifaxtiger]

2 hours ago, DC2 said:

 

I think you’ll find there are plenty of former fans on this forum who don’t go to speedway anymore and who have vociferous opinions about its ills, but they tinker around the edges as much as the promoters.

“It’s all over by the first bend” and “Follow the leader” processional heats are the biggest ills.

If the racing really were “thrill a minute” with passing and re-passing, more people would go.

I certainly believe that more could be done to make the racing better, but once again it seems to me rider interests are put above those of fans. 

I once complained about the dust at a track and asked for watering, only to be told that the riders don't like it so it wasn't going to happen. 

If the sport continually puts the needs of paid employees above paying spectators attendances will go down - that's pretty obvious, and it has to change.

I have always believed that trying to get people back is a waste of time and speedway should concentrate more on new fans. Those who used to go tend to complain about matters that have been in force for decades, trying to give the impression that they only came in two or three seasons ago.   They are overwhelmingly - and occasionally bizarrely - negative in an attempt to justify why they don't go, and make unreasonable demands as conditions to return.

Why on earth chuck money at such people ? 

[waytogo28]

2 hours ago, lewy said:

Total joke of management committee and chairman self interest at it's best,should be ashamed of themselves !!!

But of course they are not. Ashamed of themselves that is. The believe that things are now so good that new fans are beginnng to pour in to UK domestic sppedway. Why change anything?. It's a bright new dawn and a new era in 2020. Emperors New Clothes syndrome.

[moxey63]

3 minutes ago, waytogo28 said:

But of course they are not. Ashamed of themselves that is. The believe that things are now so good that new fans are beginnng to pour in to UK domestic sppedway. Why change anything?. It's a bright new dawn and a new era in 2020. Emperors New Clothes syndrome.

They'll wear you down until you no longer care.

[waytogo28]

I care very little now. I went to three meetings this year. It was just SO boring - truly "over coming out of the second bend, first time round" and withput a doubt " follow the leader". Very Pied Piper! I noted down every scap of action and very really got more than 5 minutes ot "thrills" in a match. And that is at a track where I live less than three miles away and in a town where settling there on retirememt - the local speedway team  was a definte factor in my choice. And I had followed it every year since it opened in 1965 ( when I lived 50 miles away ). If only I lived three miles away from the NSS.

[DC2]

23 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said:

I certainly believe that more could be done to make the racing better, but once again it seems to me rider interests are put above those of fans. 

I once complained about the dust at a track and asked for watering, only to be told that the riders don't like it so it wasn't going to happen. 

If the sport continually puts the needs of paid employees above paying spectators attendances will go down - that's pretty obvious, and it has to change.

I have always believed that trying to get people back is a waste of time and speedway should concentrate more on new fans. Those who used to go tend to complain about matters that have been in force for decades, trying to give the impression that they only came in two or three seasons ago.   They are overwhelmingly - and occasionally bizarrely - negative in an attempt to justify why they don't go, and make unreasonable demands as conditions to return.

 

It doesn’t matter if it’s old fans coming back or new fans coming for the first time; if the racing is rubbish they won’t come again.

Swindon bit the bullet, redesigned their track and the racing has improved.

Every track that currently doesn’t work needs to do that.

[acef]

9 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:

I am far from convinced that fans do either.

They suggest that points limits, tactical rides, rider replacement and guests cause people to walk away, ignoring the fact that all have been in existence in the sport for half a century.

Cut the prices they say, ignoring the fact that when that has been done clubs have usually sustained heavy financial losses.  

Its too expensive. Belle Vue costs £18 and I see at least one world class rider (usually two) every week. Halifax Town costs £20, and they aren't even in the Football League. By that comparison, speedway is cheap. 

They criticise the play off system, disregarding the fact that it is a huge success in terms of revenue and that it is now common practice elsewhere. 

They compare speedway to other sports, ridiculing its rules, its practices, its procedures. Speedway is about as similar to football as an elephant is to a haddock and any comparison is just as valid. 

I am sure I have even read that speedway should be marketed as a sport for those aged 40 or over, a bit like crown green bowling. Total nonsense. Speedway is for all ages, and should be promoted that way. As to the ageing attendance, I think that's a myth. Barry Bishop told me that less than 15% of his crowds are of pensionable age. 

But the most telling fact is that while some claim to have all the answers, ask them to put their money where their mouth is and they are running for the hills. Quite willing to gamble others funds, they won't stake a single penny on their - occasionally hare brained - schemes, which shows just how confident they are about their success. While I deplore the utter contempt that most - but not all - members of the BSPA have for this forum, they can justifiably point to that in describing us as 'keyboard commandos'. 

All I know is that speedway has to start treating its paying customers as paying customers and not run the sport for the benefit of the riders, because that's how it is at the moment. Even with things as desperate as they are, clubs still find time to treat its fanbase like dirt. Sheffield's Damian Bates, faced with huge criticism over an underperforming team and a dreadful track, found time to slag off the clubs fans last season. Faced with similar criticism over an equally dreadful track, instead of listening Plymouth's Mark Phillips chose to ban those who were being critical. 

When you choose to treat the lifeblood of the sport that way, you get all you deserve. 

Valid points but immaterial to be frank. It's not up to the fans to sort out the shambles that is speedway, that bit is down to the promoters.

I also can't agree that the sport is run for the riders. Costs are getting higher YOY and many barely make a profit. The real money is at the top of the sport and that will naturally force the bottom end even further out.

The costs remain largely the same.

[Vince]

1 hour ago, DC2 said:

 

It doesn’t matter if it’s old fans coming back or new fans coming for the first time; if the racing is rubbish they won’t come again.

Swindon bit the bullet, redesigned their track and the racing has improved.

Every track that currently doesn’t work needs to do that.

While the racing is the most important part for me by far given that I've never really supported a team it'll be interesting to see what happens at Swindon next year if they aren't as successful. Time and again it has been proved that while fans all say the quality of racing is the most important factor the fact is that a winning team is what brings people through the gate these days.

[ch958]

I'm shocked looking at NL or junior teams how many decent prospects scoring well then appear to have quit. I wonder if lack of opportunity to progress to div 2 is one of the reasons, owing to the strength of d2 dicision these days. 

[foamfence]

9 minutes ago, ch958 said:

I'm shocked looking at NL or junior teams how many decent prospects scoring well then appear to have quit. I wonder if lack of opportunity to progress to div 2 is one of the reasons, owing to the strength of d2 dicision these days. 

Lack of opportunity is certainly a factor, as is cost, look at the equipment some of these beginners have, I can remember the day when some internationals turned up with one bike on a rack on the back of the car. It's good that we now have more opportunities for under age riders but a young bloke should be able to afford to race and many can't.

[moxey63]

3 hours ago, DC2 said:

 

It doesn’t matter if it’s old fans coming back or new fans coming for the first time; if the racing is rubbish they won’t come again.

Swindon bit the bullet, redesigned their track and the racing has improved.

Every track that currently doesn’t work needs to do that.

But we have had live speedway on TV for 25 years now and the crowds are what they are today.

Where are the new fans from all those hours of free publicity?

[Baldyman]

On 11/11/2019 at 1:51 PM, sancho said:

 

When it's said Swindon bite the bullet and re shaped,,, they had no choice did they if they wanted speedway to continue at that venue. 

 

Didn't mean to quote, didn't know how to get rid

Edited November 17, 2019 by Baldyman

[Halifaxtiger]

1 hour ago, acef said:

Valid points but immaterial to be frank. It's not up to the fans to sort out the shambles that is speedway, that bit is down to the promoters.

I also can't agree that the sport is run for the riders. Costs are getting higher YOY and many barely make a profit. The real money is at the top of the sport and that will naturally force the bottom end even further out.

The costs remain largely the same.

On the first point, you are absolutely right. But there are so many on here who think they have all the ideas, only they don't.

And as I said, the crucial point is that while they are very happy to speculate with others money they won't risk a penny of their own.

On the second point, I can't be certain of how much money riders make or don't make although be very surprised if any rider doubling up between the Premiership and the Championship 'barely makes a profit'. Very surprised indeed.

I consider that uncontrolled doubling up is a blight on the sport in this country and we only have it so that riders can double their earnings. Because of that we have fixed race nights, and that has closed one club (Rye House) put another up for sale (Sheffield) and meant that a third (Poole) has had to drop out of a league which they have pretty much dominated. 

Riders demand that tracks are prepared how they want them, not what is best for the spectator and thus the sport itself.

Its little wonder that in a facebook post recently Gordon Pairman said that while fans point fingers at promoters for the sports financial difficulties, riders are to blame. I don't totally agree, but he has a point.  

 

[acef]

31 minutes ago, Halifaxtiger said:

On the first point, you are absolutely right. But there are so many on here who think they have all the ideas, only they don't.

And as I said, the crucial point is that while they are very happy to speculate with others money they won't risk a penny of their own.

On the second point, I can't be certain of how much money riders make or don't make although be very surprised if any rider doubling up between the Premiership and the Championship 'barely makes a profit'. Very surprised indeed.

I consider that uncontrolled doubling up is a blight on the sport in this country and we only have it so that riders can double their earnings. Because of that we have fixed race nights, and that has closed one club (Rye House) put another up for sale (Sheffield) and meant that a third (Poole) has had to drop out of a league which they have pretty much dominated. 

Riders demand that tracks are prepared how they want them, not what is best for the spectator and thus the sport itself.

Its little wonder that in a facebook post recently Gordon Pairman said that while fans point fingers at promoters for the sports financial difficulties, riders are to blame. I don't totally agree, but he has a point.  

 

There are varying degrees of earnings through the sport so it's difficult to come to a concrete conclusion. 

I can vouch for 2 riders who made a loss last season. If it wasn't for sponsorship, they wouldn't have been racing.

[DC2]

2 hours ago, moxey63 said:

But we have had live speedway on TV for 25 years now and the crowds are what they are today.

Where are the new fans from all those hours of free publicity?

 

That’s my point. 

Some of the tracks have been rubbish.

You can normally discount the first twelve heats in most GPS as rubbish racing with one line on the inside and as speedway’s showcase they should be the best prepared tracks in the world.