Swindon Robins 2020

[orion]

4 hours ago, JessicaJones said:

That’s rubbish, Orion. Greyhounds have  been around for thousands of years and raced in this country for less than a hundred. And many are bred for racing but go missing each year-an RTE report commissioned by the industry estimated that around 7,000 go missing each year. So even if fewer are bred, fewer will be killed as wastage for the industry. 
I’m sure I’ve explained all this to you before!

Relying on greyhound racing to keep the stadium going will see the end of speedway. You should have pushed for alternative uses to prop up the speedway. 
 

Shall be muting you again (which I thought I had done already) as conversations with you are never very constructive or helpful.

As have explained to before no one in speedway whats to join up or wants your help . Getting  Greyhounds banned is of  no help at all in keeping speedway clubs open .  not sure when that is going to sink in .   How you think your helping us save speedway and we have the same cause is insane .. Its become quite clear you can't enough people to help you so you try to cling on to the speedway protest 

 Your logic when you speak about Greyhound makes no sense at all . its no wonder people classed you and your mob as complete nutters . Go and fight your own battle as  your  not wanted here  never have been and never will be .. 

 

[orion]

21 hours ago, JessicaJones said:

To all the others on here who are a bit more receptive than Orion, who has been consistently unpleasant from day one, our “mob” of people who care about greyhound abuse would still be happy to work with the speedway team and to support you. Feel free to talk to us anytime. 

Who  has got hold of you so far.?  What would  would talk about .We are going to stop the Greyhounds so it gives less reason for the Stadium to stay open .What a plan what support .

[SteveLyric2]

In a shared stadium the greyhound operators have the upper hand as it is usually they that own or at the very least have control as leaseholders over the stadium use.  I'm not aware of any speedway-owned stadium that shares with greyhounds as they generally prefer other motor sports eg Stox etc.

 

[orion]

Oxford Speedway is another example of a Track being opened up with the help of Greyhound racing . The project would never have happened but for the Dogs .

[baiden]

On 7/5/2022 at 7:13 PM, JessicaJones said:

That’s rubbish, Orion. Greyhounds have  been around for thousands of years and raced in this country for less than a hundred. And many are bred for racing but go missing each year-an RTE report commissioned by the industry estimated that around 7,000 go missing each year. So even if fewer are bred, fewer will be killed as wastage for the industry. 
I’m sure I’ve explained all this to you before!

Relying on greyhound racing to keep the stadium going will see the end of speedway. You should have pushed for alternative uses to prop up the speedway. 
 

Shall be muting you again (which I thought I had done already) as conversations with you are never very constructive or helpful.

The RTE report stated less than 6,000 (5,987 to be precise). Now while the number is still shocking, it helps to get your facts right. It was also definitely not commissioned by the IGB - that was the Preferred Results report, which was an internal investigation that was leaked to RTE. And the biggest issue of all is this is solely IRELAND and nothing to do with ENGLAND, so it's a bit misleading to state this in a thread about Swindon (and speedway in England in general). As others have stated, whether you are pro greyhound racing or not, there's no doubt there would be far fewer speedway clubs still going without it.

[GWC]

Speedway started in the U.K. thanks to so many greyhound tracks being available - London dominated the sport and now the tracks are gone so has the speedway.

I count 2 Premiership, 3 Championship (inc Edinburgh) and one stand alone NDL club racing at a greyhound track.

The sport really needs to get out of these places and develop modern tracks capable of meeting the speed of a modern bike. Workington is a prime example, out of the way and a super track.

 

[JessicaJones]

Baiden-you also need to include the circa 1,000 dogs that die as a result of being raced each year. These are the industry’s own figures, published after a House of Commons select committee forced the GBGB to publish the injury and death statistics a few years ago-all available on their website. The number you quoted may be Ireland, but do you think it’s much different in England? Have you heard of David Smith and what he did?

It’s really sad that so many of the speedway fans are happy that greyhounds are used as collateral damage to prop up their sport. Why don’t the speedway teams try to dissociate themselves from it and be independent? Greyhound racing at Swindon is not profitable anyway so relying on it to keep the speedway going was never going to be a long term solution for the club. It baffles me that none of the fans recognised this and pushed the council, as we were trying to do, to change the use but preserve the speedway track.

I am surprised that no one seems to have got on to the council officers to find out what’s going on with the build. I have suggested to the Save Our Abbey Stadium Twitter feed that they do this but didn’t get an answer. Justin Tomlinson won’t do anything. It’s up to the council officers in the planning office to ensure that the new stadium build is delivered and that the conditions are met. I have been in touch with the planning officer dealing with it and have their number which I offered to pass on to whoever runs the SOAS Twitter feed but didn’t get a reply. 
 

 

[JessicaJones]

2 hours ago, baiden said:

The RTE report stated less than 6,000 (5,987 to be precise). Now while the number is still shocking, it helps to get your facts right. It was also definitely not commissioned by the IGB - that was the Preferred Results report, which was an internal investigation that was leaked to RTE. And the biggest issue of all is this is solely IRELAND and nothing to do with ENGLAND, so it's a bit misleading to state this in a thread about Swindon (and speedway in England in general). As others have stated, whether you are pro greyhound racing or not, there's no doubt there would be far fewer speedway clubs still going without it.

Also Baiden, I said it was an RTE report commissioned by the industry. RTE reported on it but the IGB commissioned Preferred Results to write the report. I know it was leaked. I have watched the (very shocking) RTE documentary on greyhound racing which set out the background to the report.

Edited July 7, 2022 by JessicaJones

[JessicaJones]

Agree, GWC. That’s what the person I was in touch with had suggested when I approached him for help with the stadium 4 years ago. He was working with Swindon Council on some developments and said this would be the sensible thing to do for all parties (residents, council, speedway and the company). I believe that an agreement could have been reached to do this if the council had pushed for it but they didn’t. I know that someone above has said that it would have been difficult to get the company to cough up and yes, I agree-difficult but not impossible. I’m sure someone on here knows better than me on planning but there are section 106 agreements that can be put in place to secure funding for community developments when house builders are putting up a housing estate. As it was a condition for the site, it would have been the most sensible agreement all round as it’s becoming clear that GI Ltd had one purpose in mind for the site all along. 

[baiden]

27 minutes ago, JessicaJones said:

Baiden-you also need to include the circa 1,000 dogs that die as a result of being raced each year. These are the industry’s own figures, published after a House of Commons select committee forced the GBGB to publish the injury and death statistics a few years ago-all available on their website. The number you quoted may be Ireland, but do you think it’s much different in England? Have you heard of David Smith and what he did?

It’s really sad that so many of the speedway fans are happy that greyhounds are used as collateral damage to prop up their sport. Why don’t the speedway teams try to dissociate themselves from it and be independent? Greyhound racing at Swindon is not profitable anyway so relying on it to keep the speedway going was never going to be a long term solution for the club. It baffles me that none of the fans recognised this and pushed the council, as we were trying to do, to change the use but preserve the speedway track.

I am surprised that no one seems to have got on to the council officers to find out what’s going on with the build. I have suggested to the Save Our Abbey Stadium Twitter feed that they do this but didn’t get an answer. Justin Tomlinson won’t do anything. It’s up to the council officers in the planning office to ensure that the new stadium build is delivered and that the conditions are met. I have been in touch with the planning officer dealing with it and have their number which I offered to pass on to whoever runs the SOAS Twitter feed but didn’t get a reply. 
 

 

This is a figure from early 2018. Latest figures show the number is far closer to 400. How do you not know this?

Plus again you're adding the 1,000 figure of greyhounds that died racing in the UK to the almost 6,000 figure from Ireland to come up with 7,000! It makes no sense. Regardless of David Smith, if you think the UK and Ireland have the same practices, you're very much mistaken. There are significant differences and you certainly can't group them altogether to come up with a magical figure. At the end of the day, even one death is too many, but you need to get your facts right.

Anyway, I'm not here to here to discuss greyhound welfare with someone who is on a witch hunt. I'm discussing speedway, and its survival. Yes it would be better to be away from greyhound stadia, but it's just not possible in some circumstances. Many clubs would not exist without them, and certainly don't have the means to survive on their own.

Edited July 7, 2022 by baiden

[iris123]

2 hours ago, GWC said:

Speedway started in the U.K. thanks to so many greyhound tracks being available - London dominated the sport and now the tracks are gone so has the speedway.

I count 2 Premiership, 3 Championship (inc Edinburgh) and one stand alone NDL club racing at a greyhound track.

The sport really needs to get out of these places and develop modern tracks capable of meeting the speed of a modern bike. Workington is a prime example, out of the way and a super track.

 

I'd agree on that. The sport needs to be as independant as possible. especially away from animal sports

I did notice in Germany over the past week that both equestrian and horse racing are now coming under attack. 

[JessicaJones]

24 minutes ago, baiden said:

This is a figure from early 2018. Latest figures show the number is far closer to 400. How do you not know this?

Plus again you're adding the 1,000 figure of greyhounds that died racing in the UK to the almost 6,000 figure from Ireland to come up with 7,000! It makes no sense. Regardless of David Smith, if you think the UK and Ireland have the same practices, you're very much mistaken. They are significant differences and certain can't group them altogether to come up with a magical figure. At the end of the day, even one death is too many, but you need to get your facts right.

Anyway, I'm not here to here to discuss greyhound welfare with someone who is on a witch hunt. I'm discussing speedway, and its survival. Yes it would be better to be away from greyhound stadia, but it's just not possible in some circumstances. Many clubs would not exist without them, and certainly don't have the means to survive on their own.

I know the latest figure is around 400 but that’s hardly representative when many tracks were closed for a long period because of the pandemic! In the previous years, it was around 1,000 per year and it will likely go back up again now that most tracks are operating for the whole year again. Besides, do you really think that these figures are truthfully reported? Even greyhound trainers/owners acknowledge that they are underreported as injuries are not always apparent until a dog has left the track. 
 

I have said all along that we support the speedway. We know it’s important to the town. I originally joined this forum to see if any of the Robins fans would work with us to push the council in finding alternative uses for the track so that it doesn’t rely on greyhound racing and so that the future of the speedway would be secured. I was never on a “witch hunt”. I’ll reiterate that it’s a shame that our approach was met with such negativity and that so many speedway fans-many but not all-care so little about animal abuse that they weren’t willing to join forces. Also, as I have said, whether you care about the dogs or not, relying on greyhound racing would hasten the end of the speedway, not keep it going, so combined we could have had a very effective campaign. 

I am still offering to help by passing on the name and number of the planning officer who is dealing with the case if any Robins fans wanted to find out what’s going on. I have spoken to the officer several times about it over the last couple of years. No one has taken me up on the offer. 

Edited July 7, 2022 by JessicaJones

[baiden]

4 minutes ago, JessicaJones said:

I know the latest figure is around 400 but that’s hardly representative when many tracks were closed for a long period because of the pandemic! In the previous years, it was around 1,000 per year and it will likely go back up again now that most tracks are operating for the whole year again. Besides, do you really think that these figures are truthfully reported? Even greyhound trainers/owners acknowledge that they are underreported as injuries are not always apparent until a dog has left the track. 
 

I have said all along that we support the speedway. We know it’s important to the town. I originally joined this forum to see if any of the Robins fans would work with us to push the council in finding alternative uses for the track so that it doesn’t rely on greyhound racing and so that the future of the speedway would be secured. I was never on a “witch hunt”. I’ll reiterate that it’s a shame that our approach was met with such negativity and that so many speedway fans-many but not all-care so little about animal abuse that they weren’t willing to join forces. Combined it could have been a very effective campaign. 

I praise you for trying, and it's not my intention to belittle your efforts. I wish you all the best in trying to get speedway to return to Swindon.

I just have an issue with the fact that you're just creating numbers to support your argument, and felt I had to take it to task. You can't create a 7,000 figure by combining stats from England and Ireland (and adding in some guess work) and then have the audacity to question if the GBGB's figures are truthfully reported. To me, it just looks like somebody who has got their own agenda.

The reality is that Swindon is unlikely to return without greyhounds, and that's probably why people are not being receptive. I'm sure we all care about 'animal abuse', but a lot of us probably don't have views as extreme as yours and really don't want to see our beloved clubs die. Having been an Oxford Cheetahs supporter it was fantastic to see them return this year, but it simply wouldn't have happened without greyhound racing.

[JessicaJones]

11 minutes ago, baiden said:

I praise you for trying, and it's not my intention to belittle your efforts. I wish you all the best in trying to get speedway to return to Swindon.

I just have an issue with the fact that you're just creating numbers to support your argument, and felt I had to take it to task. You can't create a 7,000 figure by combining stats from England and Ireland (and adding in some guess work) and then have the audacity to question if the GBGB's figures are truthfully reported. To me, it just looks like somebody who has got their own agenda.

The reality is that Swindon is unlikely to return without greyhounds, and that's probably why people are not being receptive. I'm sure we all care about 'animal abuse', but a lot of us probably don't have views as extreme as yours and really don't want to see our beloved clubs die. Having been an Oxford Cheetahs supporter it was fantastic to see them return this year, but it simply wouldn't have happened without greyhound racing.

It was never my intention to “make up numbers” and I was typing on the go-actually while I was at Wimbledon. And sometimes there are typos and errors when you are typing on the go.

Oxford may have brought back speedway and that’s good news. The campaign to end the greyhound racing there (though the racing has not have started yet) will continue. Many of the local councillors are against it and LACS will ensure that the campaign is ongoing. So the future is not secured still if reliant on that. I believe that Oxford has other facilities too which should hopefully help to support  the speedway.

As we all know though, Oxford is a different situation to Swindon, which is owned by GI Ltd. I have delved into their accounts and into their associated companies going back many years and it’s been pretty obvious what their game plan has been. And greyhound racing at Swindon is not profitable for the company. The only way to ensure that the speedway team is able to continue is for the stadium to diversify. We pushed for the council to work with GI on this at least three years ago. We worked on developing good relationships with the councillors, council officers, residents and the local press. Hence I say that we could have had a good campaign if the two groups has worked together. 
 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by JessicaJones

[JessicaJones]

And yes-of course our group has an agenda. We want to see the end of greyhound racing full stop. I do think it’s fair to recognise that around 6,000 dogs in Ireland are killed as wastage and a further circa 1,000 dogs are killed as a result of racing=7,000 which is the future I quoted. 
 

Whilst we do want to see the end of greyhound racing, we also recognise that speedway is important to the town. I didn’t sit through hours of tedious council planning meetings to not appreciate this. So it was never our intention to be against the speedway too. Speedway racers choose whether they race-dogs do not! I thought it was a win-win for us to work together. But no one I approached on the speedway side was receptive.

[baiden]

13 minutes ago, JessicaJones said:

And yes-of course our group has an agenda. We want to see the end of greyhound racing full stop. I do think it’s fair to recognise that around 6,000 dogs in Ireland are killed as wastage and a further circa 1,000 dogs are killed as a result of racing=7,000 which is the future I quoted. 
 

Whilst we do want to see the end of greyhound racing, we also recognise that speedway is important to the town. I didn’t sit through hours of tedious council planning meetings to not appreciate this. So it was never our intention to be against the speedway too. Speedway racers choose whether they race-dogs do not! I thought it was a win-win for us to work together. But no one I approached on the speedway side was receptive.

How can you think it's fair to come up with a figure based on two completely different countries? Why don't you add in deaths from Australia and USA as well, you'll get an even bigger number you can try and claim is 'in this country' (as you originally stated) then. I just don't buy this is a result of 'typos' either, sorry! Poor excuse.

Stop trying to sell us the fact that greyhound racing is bad, we get it. Now, let's talk about speedway.

 

[JessicaJones]

It’s fair to say that 7,000 (minimum) dogs die as a result of greyhound racing each year in the UK and Ireland. The two countries’ industries are inextricably linked. 

I have been trying to talk about speedway but was also answering your points! I have been offering to help the campaign both here and to the SOAS campaign on Twitter. I have made suggestions of ways to get information on what’s going on. Have suggested we pool our resources to get GI to invest in the stadium.  Have passed on information about Gaming International to the Twitter account. Have suggested there’s no point focusing on Justin Tomlinson as a) he won’t do anything, b) he doesn’t care and c) it’s the council officers who should be approached in this instance for more information. Got no reply to any of the above. 

Edited July 7, 2022 by JessicaJones

[JessicaJones]

In my opinion, the speedway fans should have got onto this years ago. It feels as if many of them just gave up and others placed too much good faith in GI Ltd. 

Edited July 7, 2022 by JessicaJones

[baiden]

12 minutes ago, JessicaJones said:

It’s fair to say that 7,000 (minimum) dogs die as a result of greyhound racing each year in the UK and Ireland.

I have been trying to talk about speedway but was also answering your points! I have been offering to help the campaign both here and to the SOAS campaign on Twitter. I have made suggestions of ways to get information on what’s going on. Have suggested we pool our resources to get GI to invest in the stadium.  Have passed on information about Gaming International to the Twitter account. Got no reply to any of it. Have suggested there’s no point focusing on Justin Tomlinson as a) he won’t do anything, b) he doesn’t care and c) it’s the council officers who should be approached in this instance for more information. 

Sigh, it's not. It's fair to say it was as of 2018. Saying it is now is pure speculation - it would have to be based of predicted racing levels and safety standards post pandemic (and they were already improving based on 2019's figures). Plus, you didn't say anything about Ireland originally, it was 'in this country' - you tried to claim 7,000 was in this country alone. You only claimed 'UK and Ireland' when I pulled you up on it. And Ireland is a pretty big percentage of it, based on your figures it's over 80%! You just wanted a sensationalist figure - regardless of its legitimacy.

And that's the last I am going to say on it as you really don't get it.

Edited July 7, 2022 by baiden

[JessicaJones]

1 hour ago, baiden said:

Sigh, it's not. It's fair to say it was as of 2018. Saying it is now is pure speculation - it would have to be based of predicted racing levels and safety standards post pandemic (and they were already improving based on 2019's figures). Plus, you didn't say anything about Ireland originally, it was 'in this country' - you tried to claim 7,000 was in this country alone. You only claimed 'UK and Ireland' when I pulled you up on it. And Ireland is a pretty big percentage of it, based on your figures it's over 80%! You just wanted a sensationalist figure - regardless of its legitimacy.

And that's the last I am going to say on it as you really don't get it.

You keep saying let’s talk about the speedway so I try to talk about the speedway and you return to the issue about the greyhounds. Forget that topic then if it is so tedious for you! What about the other points I have raised about the stadium? What about the offers to help by passing on info? Not one response to that from anyone on here or on the SOAS Twitter feed. 
 

I keep saying I and my “mob” are behind the speedway team. Have made numerous offers to help and support the campaign. We have information and contacts and could have worked together. Not one person has said “great, thank you-please pass on the info”.
 

(Can see Orion has posted in response but I have muted him. I’m sure it’s a lovely reply….) 

Edited July 7, 2022 by JessicaJones