Reliant Robin Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rockstar99 said: Scrapped a 1 point with on aggregate when Wolverhampton were missing Freddie Lindgren & Jacob Thorssell. You would have got smashed if they rode. That's a fact. Chris Harris & R/R for Freddie Lindgren & Jacob Thorssell is what handed you the title rather than signing Tobiasz Musielak Facts can usually be proven. Fact is, we won the title that year, a year that was turned around when Tobiasz Musielak signed. The proof of that fact is undeniable, whilst what you propose as fact is merely opinion 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMessiahOfTheBSF Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 1 minute ago, Reliant Robin said: Facts can usually be proven. Fact is, we won the title that year, a year that was turned around when Tobiasz Musielak signed. The proof of that fact is undeniable, whilst what you propose as fact is merely opinion Fact is you got handed the title that year. It was the equivalent of someone giving out leaflets in some random Swindon shopping centre. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noggin Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 8 minutes ago, Rockstar99 said: Fact is you got handed the title that year. It was the equivalent of someone giving out leaflets in some random Swindon shopping centre. Are you still banging this sad drum under a different alias, everyone knows you're anti swindon, those sour grapes have clearly made you more bitter, now toddle off and bore another thread. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy swindon pete Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 Oh I see..... it’s a troll. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMessiahOfTheBSF Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 Swindon fans getting triggered. Sorry but as the saying goes...….The truth hurts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noggin Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 14 minutes ago, Rockstar99 said: Swindon fans getting triggered. Sorry but as the saying goes...….The truth hurts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyabb17 Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 16 minutes ago, Rockstar99 said: Swindon fans getting triggered. Sorry but as the saying goes...….The truth hurts. Yes, we won the league in 2017 & 2019......That my friend is the truth. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMessiahOfTheBSF Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 I don't know why all of you are getting triggered. I spoke the truth and the truth hurts. If Wolves won the 2017 Grand Final when Swindon were missing Jason Doyle & Nick Morris then I would say the exact same thing. It's a fact. 9.29 Freddie Lindgren being replaced by 7.63 Chris Harris. 8.64 Jacob Thorssell being replaced by R/R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishRoundabout Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 10 minutes ago, Rockstar99 said: Swindon fans getting triggered. Sorry but as the saying goes...….The truth hurts. “Handed the title?” “Would have got smashed if they’d have ridden?” Have you actually read what you have posted? CONJECTURE. An opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information. FACT. A thing that is known or proved to be true Does that help a little? You will no doubt be disappointed to see another potential title winning team being assembled by Rossiter. Aside from the excellent signings of Musielak and last season, Jensen, don’t forget Rossiter’s inspirational mid season signings go back to 2006 when he signed The virtually unknown Chrzanowski who turned in some incredible double figure scores whilst the team were struggling, almost getting the team to the play off final. I am sure Rossiter has some plans for mid season should things not quite go to plan, and has probably already identified someone who could do similar to all the aforementioned. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YerRopes Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 1 minute ago, Rockstar99 said: I don't know why all of you are getting triggered. I spoke the truth and the truth hurts. If Wolves won the 2017 Grand Final when Swindon were missing Jason Doyle & Nick Morris then I would say the exact same thing. It's a fact. 9.29 Freddie Lindgren being replaced by 7.63 Chris Harris. 8.64 Jacob Thorssell being replaced by R/R. Who cares, tis all conjecture.. Swindon 2017 Champions and 2019 Champions too.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMessiahOfTheBSF Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, YerRopes said: Who cares, tis all conjecture.. Swindon 2017 Champions and 2019 Champions too.. 2017 Default Champions and 2019 Champions sounds about right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 2 hours ago, DC2 said: So the biggest discrepancy is Iversen and your logic would say he should now be 6.97 (from a few rushed end of season fixtures) rather than the 7.54 rolling average over his last twenty matches? He’s a GP rider and anyone signing him next year on 7.54 should have a bargain! 6.97 would be plain daft. I think that proves that rolling averages are pretty good. Grading is just averages made inaccurate and subjective. It’s not my logic, they are the facts. Using rolling averages may give the ‘ fairer’ overall average but aren’t accurate at all. We know the rolling averages were brought in to stop the same teams snapping up all the riders on ridiculously low averages. So that’s job done of a sort. Iversen on a 6.97 to 7.54 is below his ability so don’t see the issue. Both are too low yet both give a current reflection on his 2019 season. Remember, both averages are correct. The only fair way in my opinion is to go back to actual averages for that achieved in a full season. But I get why rolling averages are used totally. Grading (which works perfectly well in Danish league racing) would group certain standards of riders together which would be different to what is happening now. Some would say how is it fair that Doyle, Iversen and Pedersen (as example) are A grade the same as the likes of Masters, Kurtz, Jack Holder, Wright? Yet all of them rode at number one for their teams this season and potentially next season. So of course that’s fair. There will always be an argument that some riders are put in group wrongly or because the team you support is affected by that grade, no different to the example point of Iversen whether he should be using the current rolling average, his 2019 average or a GP reassessed average. All 3 points have a similar merit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, stevebrum said: Grading (which works perfectly well in Danish league racing) would group certain standards of riders together which would be different to what is happening now. Some would say how is it fair that Doyle, Iversen and Pedersen (as example) are A grade the same as the likes of Masters, Kurtz, Jack Holder, Wright? Yet all of them rode at number one for their teams this season and potentially next season. So of course that’s fair. There will always be an argument that some riders are put in group wrongly or because the team you support is affected by that grade, no different to the example point of Iversen whether he should be using the current rolling average, his 2019 average or a GP reassessed average. All 3 points have a similar merit. Sure, some teams have stronger number ones than others, but the others have stronger riders elsewhere in their teams due to having more points available to sign them. A rolling average over the last twenty matches seems perfectly fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 7 minutes ago, DC2 said: Sure, some teams have stronger number ones than others, but the others have stronger riders elsewhere in their teams due to having more points available to sign them. A rolling average over the last twenty matches seems perfectly fair. Strength in depth certainly didn’t work this season as Swindon proved but yes that is a good point in general. Rolling averages are probably the fairest way forward however I still believe grading is the best way forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call me wolfie Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Reliant Robin said: Facts can usually be proven. Fact is, we won the title that year, a year that was turned around when Tobiasz Musielak signed. The proof of that fact is undeniable, whilst what you propose as fact is merely opinion It is indeed just opinion as it will never be be proven, however the opinion can be backed up with facts Fact one, prior to the playoff final, Wolves lost just 1 home meeting all season to Poole, (already without Riss who was replaced by Clegg)after Kyle was withdrawn from the meeting after completing just 1 ride, leaving the weak reserve pairing of Clegg and Greaves to take his rides Fact two, exactly one month prior to the final, Wolves won convincingly at home to Swindon by 14 points, ending Swindons long winning streak However, as you say, just opinion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 7 minutes ago, stevebrum said: Strength in depth certainly didn’t work this season as Swindon proved but yes that is a good point in general. Rolling averages are probably the fairest way forward however I still believe grading is the best way forward. Could you explain how “rolling averages are probably fairest” but “grading is the best way forward”? From what you’re saying, grading would be less fair so how could it be better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reliant Robin Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, Call me wolfie said: It is indeed just opinion as it will never be be proven, however the opinion can be backed up with facts Fact one, prior to the playoff final, Wolves lost just 1 home meeting all season to Poole, (already without Riss who was replaced by Clegg)after Kyle was withdrawn from the meeting after completing just 1 ride, leaving the weak reserve pairing of Clegg and Greaves to take his rides Fact two, exactly one month prior to the final, Wolves won convincingly at home to Swindon by 14 points, ending Swindons long winning streak However, as you say, just opinion Absolutely, people are free to interpret and form opinions based on fact. It's when some (not you) state their opinion as a factual matter that it causes confusion. Here's another couple for you. Fact one - prior to the Playoff Final, Swindon lost just 2 home meetings all season. Both before Musielak had been signed (that's where the discussion started in Musielak not being a turning point for the season). Fact two, just over one month before the final, Swindon won convincingly at home to Wolves by 12 points with Tero Aarnio and Alfie Botwell in the Swindon line up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 Just now, DC2 said: Could you explain how “rolling averages are probably fairest” but “grading is the best way forward”? From what you’re saying, grading would be less fair so how could it be better? I’ve already explained my thought process. If we are using averages then rolling averages are probably the fairest. Grading would bring no different discrepancies when looking at if riders are graded fairest versus whether some riders have a fair average for their ability (2019 averages/rolling/old average for riders coming back). Grading to me is the fairest way forward overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny the spud Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 Who is cockstar a latest alias of ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 24 minutes ago, Jonny the spud said: Who is cockstar a latest alias of ? Looks like the purple chinos guy to me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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