Is Jordan Palin ready for Championship speedway?

[arnieg]

52 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

Robert is getting there ,he got his GP slot through a easier route though.

Beating Madsen, Michelsen, Grig Laguta and Nick P over 5 rounds hardly seems like the easy option.

[Fromafar]

4 minutes ago, arnieg said:

Beating Madsen, Michelsen, Grig Laguta and Nick P over 5 rounds hardly seems like the easy option.

It is when getting into the Top3 in a one off meeting is the other way.IMO.

[mikebv]

Lambert has certainly got himself up to that '2nd Tier' of riders who are currently behind the likes of Zmarzlik, Woffy, Lindgren, Madsen, Doyle, Vaculik, Emil Laguta and Janowski...

And possibly the best placed within that 12 to 15 or so riders to go on into that "Elite" group given the 'glide path' he has been on..

Not many riders become "overnight sensations" like Doyle did after about six years of pretty average performances.. 

Usually after three years or four years racing you can see who will make that "Elite" level as they will be riding to HL level over here in the top league..

Dan Bewley is the 'next cab on the rank' I would say given his end of season performances last year. 

Another full season like he finished the last will see him leap up the standings I would say, however, a season of mediocrity and where he is now (a solid HL in the UK) just may end up his level..

Woffy's support will be a huge opportunity for him to succeed, let's hope he can use it to move his career to the next level. (Top 25 or so in the World)

[Fromafar]

24 minutes ago, mikebv said:

Lambert has certainly got himself up to that '2nd Tier' of riders who are currently behind the likes of Zmarzlik, Woffy, Lindgren, Madsen, Doyle, Vaculik, Emil Laguta and Janowski...

And possibly the best placed within that 12 to 15 or so riders to go on into that "Elite" group given the 'glide path' he has been on..

Not many riders become "overnight sensations" like Doyle did after about six years of pretty average performances.. 

Usually after three years or four years racing you can see who will make that "Elite" level as they will be riding to HL level over here in the top league..

Dan Bewley is the 'next cab on the rank' I would say given his end of season performances last year. 

Another full season like he finished the last will see him leap up the standings I would say, however, a season of mediocrity and where he is now (a solid HL in the UK) just may end up his level..

Woffy's support will be a huge opportunity for him to succeed, let's hope he can use it to move his career to the next level. (Top 25 or so in the World)

Agree regarding Dan Bewley.

[stevebrum]

11 hours ago, Pinny said:

Kennett in particular at 16 was sensational in the Premier league. Remember him in 02/03 he was superb. 
 

Stead and Allen at 16/17 were also way ahead of Kemp. That is kind of my point , so many riders at that age classed as the real deal. 

The main issue for me is that we’ve had plenty of promising youngsters come thru the past 15 years however either those riders lacked the ambition to get into Europe to progress further and settled quickly for a comfortable life of doubling up in the UK or the governing body of the UK has no plan to progress it’s youth riders. Or, most likely a combination of the two.

My own opinion is that riders need that drive to push for places abroad as it’s the only way to measure if they can turn that promise into reality so riders like Tai, Robert were always likely to succeed and it’s good to see riders like Rowe, Kemp, Ellis already getting team spots. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by stevebrum
Added detail

[arnieg]

3 hours ago, Fromafar said:

It is when getting into the Top3 in a one off meeting is the other way.IMO.

GP challenge is clearly easier for all but the very best riders. Do you seriously think Pontus Aspgren or Aleksandr Loktaev would have managed to be within a single ride of qualifying if they'd had to beat Madsen et al over 5 rounds. 

[Justgotmecpc]

14 hours ago, mikebv said:

Spot on....

At 16, Joe Screen was riding in the top division of World Spedway and regularly beating genuinely World Class heat leaders, and at 19 winning the BLRC in front of a truly World Class field that would have been full of GP riders if that had existed at the time...

And even with all that, Joe 'only' reached No 6 in the World..

No mean feat at all, but it shows just how far behind these lads are to where he was at their age (and even younger)...

None of them would win races in the Polish top league regularly like Joe did in the equivalent level top league over here...

Maybe they will develop to become 'top level' riders, and riding in Poland will definitely help with that, but there has to be some reality check as to where these lads are actually at...

Genuine World Class talent is usually winning, or finishing top 3, in 'junior' World Championships at Under 21 level...

Scoring maximums in the NDL, or riding at reserve in the Championship, at the same age as those who do win junior World Titles, is miles behind..

Robert Lambert is the most modern example of where you need to be at U21 level to become genuinely World Class..

Let's just give them some slack and see how they go, as being 'World Class' is truly a long, long way off for them all...

 

Back then I would probably think that most of the bikes would have been on par & it was a case of skill when you look at screen loram & gollob on how they could turn the bike back mid corner then create a longer straight absolutely great to watch

[Justgotmecpc]

Why are a lot of negative posts on here regarding our youth riders ! Just let them develop onto the next stage of there carreers & see how they do

[phillwhitewasmad]

5 minutes ago, Justgotmecpc said:

Why are a lot of negative posts on here regarding our youth riders ! Just let them develop onto the next stage of there carreers & see how they do

Because it's the bsf and it's the law to embrace negativity and frown upon positivity 

Edited February 25, 2021 by phillwhitewasmad

[Fromafar]

2 minutes ago, phillwhitewasmad said:

Because it's the bsf and it's the law to embrace negativity and frown upon positivity 

It is a forum therefore it’s about opinions negative or positive.Most posters have wished them well.Let’s face young Brits over the last  20 years have not set the World alight  for a variety of reasons which is what was being discussed.Young Poles ,Aussies and Danes have shown how to do it IMO.(this comparing young riders in general).

[szkocjasid]

10 hours ago, enotian said:

If you look at all of the first season averages for the British World Champions it's been about 7 in the 2nd division and 5 in the top flight.  Or higher.  In what were higher standard leagues. 

However a rider like Lee Richardson didn't have a spectacular start to his career but went on to be an International class rider.

The special talents like Lee and Collins would always have achieved on talent alone but its the progression of less naturally talented riders that needs to be facilitated. 

There seems to be a couple of hurdles.  When a youngster reaches the 1 to 5 and struggles and is replaced (as happened to Kemp in 2019) and then once they do reach 2nd division heat leader status kicking on to become International class.  Which there are numerous examples, Danny King for instance.

Unofficial averages for Lee Richardson: 1995..Reading..29..102..24..9..1.29
1996..Poole..35..147..64..10..2.01

Shows how riders can improve at various rates & also how tough the top division can be for a 16/17 year old of limited experience!

Edited February 25, 2021 by szkocjasid

[Justgotmecpc]

3 hours ago, Fromafar said:

It is a forum therefore it’s about opinions negative or positive.Most posters have wished them well.Let’s face young Brits over the last  20 years have not set the World alight  for a variety of reasons which is what was being discussed.Young Poles ,Aussies and Danes have shown how to do it IMO.(this comparing young riders in general).

So now is the the time to back the young Brits a 110% more now & let's hope that over the next few years they can kick on because apart from woffy & Lambert  & bewley ( on good gear ) the crop of boys need all the support they can get

[mikebv]

17 hours ago, Fromafar said:

Agree regarding Dan Bewley.

And a mention too for Adam Ellis..

Reminds me a bit of Jason Doyle's progression...

Incremental improvements rather than one big impact in one year, and still a fair bit more to come from him I would say..

Lets hope some of these young lads coming through can progress through to International level and put GB back on top of the Speedway World.. 

Their off track support, and on track advice and coaching, certainly has never been better, so let's hope they can use it well..

[Fromafar]

11 hours ago, Justgotmecpc said:

So now is the the time to back the young Brits a 110% more now & let's hope that over the next few years they can kick on because apart from woffy & Lambert  & bewley ( on good gear ) the crop of boys need all the support they can get

I back the young Brits 100%,trouble is the sport has nosedived in GB over the last 10-15 years and these riders have trouble getting serious sponsors nowadays and the way the sport has developed technically you need to invested fairly large sums of cash to compete at Top level.We still have situation where after a  few years in the sport most youngsters settle for earning decent money in GB ( doubling up ect).These days maybe numbered given the recent Pandemic.World Class is very difficult to achieve in any Sport.

[Sings4Speedway]

Even exceptional riders can only get so far without huge funding. Tai admits that the early days his kit was rubbish but he then landed some mega sponsors and didn't look back. Young riders now need multiple good bikes and engines to even break into the sport for a normal season, the levels of presentation and PR required of them are huge to attact clubs and sponsors along with keeping fans on side and thats without the pressures of scoring points and maintaining any run of form. These are pressures that are not being applied to adults but children, kids are being raised in this manner from a very young age that they will succeed in speedway. Sadly the lack of depth in the UK means that these youngsters with big early funding can rise quite quickly and then stagnate once a level is found, its the ability to break through that barrier and achieve even higher that separate the good from the great.

[Bagpuss]

I think the marginal gains like fitness, diet and psychology are really important nowadays too, Woffinden and Lambert like most other to riders recognise this and they are two very good role models for our youngsters to aspire to. They both rode in all three of our leagues as teenagers as well as getting experience abroad as soon as they could do the example and the pathways are there for Kemp, Rowe, Palin etc to follow if they want to be the best they can be. 

[Justgotmecpc]

3 hours ago, Fromafar said:

I back the young Brits 100%,trouble is the sport has nosedived in GB over the last 10-15 years and these riders have trouble getting serious sponsors nowadays and the way the sport has developed technically you need to invested fairly large sums of cash to compete at Top level.We still have situation where after a  few years in the sport most youngsters settle for earning decent money in GB ( doubling up ect).These days maybe numbered given the recent Pandemic.World Class is very difficult to achieve in any Sport.

100% agree as it's cost me a fair few bob over the few years 

[Tsunami]

4 hours ago, Bagpuss said:

I think the marginal gains like fitness, diet and psychology are really important nowadays too, Woffinden and Lambert like most other to riders recognise this and they are two very good role models for our youngsters to aspire to. They both rode in all three of our leagues as teenagers as well as getting experience abroad as soon as they could do the example and the pathways are there for Kemp, Rowe, Palin etc to follow if they want to be the best they can be. 

Quite agree about progress and magical gains. Unlike some on here I don't even think of comparing young riders with others in the past who got to Poland and world championships. Riders all have their own ability, which as you say can be enhanced with fitness, nutrition, life style, coaching, competitive racing, etc, and it's by following that sort of path that riders and their supporters can gauge how far they are capable of getting to in our sport. Looking at Palin, Kemp, Thompsons twins, Rowe, etc and only thinking they are successful it they reach the world stage is foolish. If say any of them reach contesting being British Champion, I would say they were successful even if circumstances mean they can't go to the next stage. There needs to be a more realistic assessmeant of the next set of young riders.  

[Fromafar]

4 hours ago, Tsunami said:

Quite agree about progress and magical gains. Unlike some on here I don't even think of comparing young riders with others in the past who got to Poland and world championships. Riders all have their own ability, which as you say can be enhanced with fitness, nutrition, life style, coaching, competitive racing, etc, and it's by following that sort of path that riders and their supporters can gauge how far they are capable of getting to in our sport. Looking at Palin, Kemp, Thompsons twins, Rowe, etc and only thinking they are successful it they reach the world stage is foolish. If say any of them reach contesting being British Champion, I would say they were successful even if circumstances mean they can't go to the next stage. There needs to be a more realistic assessmeant of the next set of young riders.  

Agree a more realistic assessment is needed,a decent career in Uk should be the big aim for most of the youngsters.World Stage is a different ball game for the majority.One of the difficulties is the drop in standard of GB speedway it’s a small stepping stone to reach the Top compared to the past.Top Brits in previous era were guaranteed rides abroad, that is not the case nowadays. 

[Hacksaw Jim Duggan]

Aged well this topic didn't it.