Is Jordan Palin ready for Championship speedway?

[Tsunami]

1 hour ago, Sidney the robin said:

Hi Tsanami for me we have a few lads who are getting there,  Rowe i have watched and followed from the mini  track  rides at Swindon.He has done mega  well want him following in the tracks at Swindon ( if the they run????) moving up following Kilby, Keen, Holloway! Hewlett, Rossiter , Chessell, and Smart be great that.Kemp has improved  very much loads in my book did well in a top five at Sheffield when really he should of stayed  been aloud to stay at reserve  he got replaced punished badly in my book.Brennan i like see him beat Woryna at Swindon he was decent also see Palin in two junior meetings and on tape at NL level he looks classy great style.

HI Sidney, nice to hear from you again. Yes we currently have the best set of kids up and coming for many years, and it couldn't have been any better for them when, simultaneously, we are missing many riders due to visas and the Poland dictates. They will compete and grow together  by competition, and I really can't see the alleged drop in standard will reduce the intensity of the racing.  This could become a milestone year both for speedway and the riders development, which should do well for the future. If they do progress as expected they may have to revisit the 2 rising stars for next year decision. I could be down in your parts at some stage, so I will let you know if I am going to make it.  Take care.  

[Sidney the robin]

9 hours ago, Tsunami said:

HI Sidney, nice to hear from you again. Yes we currently have the best set of kids up and coming for many years, and it couldn't have been any better for them when, simultaneously, we are missing many riders due to visas and the Poland dictates. They will compete and grow together  by competition, and I really can't see the alleged drop in standard will reduce the intensity of the racing.  This could become a milestone year both for speedway and the riders development, which should do well for the future. If they do progress as expected they may have to revisit the 2 rising stars for next year decision. I could be down in your parts at some stage, so I will let you know if I am going to make it.  Take care.  

Yes that would be great that Tsunami just let me know i will have to travel elsewhere for a few meetings as Swindon is not available?What  are the plans for the likes of Archie, The Mcgurk brothers and other up and coming youngsters.??? Are you going to be connected helping out hope so hope it goes well and some of those lads can move up the ladder.

[Pinny]

16 hours ago, stevebrum said:

Kemp IS another that is a big deal. He still upped his average with Sheffield. 
you clearly have never seen him ride. One of the most natural talents on a bike I’ve ever seen at 15. 

Will see how he goes this year. Calling him a big deal is over the top though looking at his progress so far.

Absolutely streets behind the top boys on the continent at the moment. Even that Dane, Birkemose? Same age as Kemp, look at what he has achieved so far yet you hardly hear his name.

The problem is, and we are all guilty of it, is Brits love to over hype sportsmen. Same as in football and then when they don't hit the heights many expect, they get criticism. 

It is absolutely nothing personal against him, but I have seen many, many young Brits come around and get rated as this and that and very rarely at best does it happen. I remember Lee Hodgeson at Sheffield at 15 ripping the Conference league apart and being touted as the next British world champion. I remember Barrie Evans at 15 being raved about at 15. Where are they now?

Kemp may well turn out to be a very decent rider and as I have said, this is prime time to do it with the top tiers being so diluted and weak. His national league form looks impressive. However, using the excuse that he got moved into the main body of the side doesn't wash with me. People will remember Andrew Appleton and Chris Neath regularly swapping places at 2 & 7 after starting on a 3.00 for Newport in 1998/9. They both ended on over 5.00 in a stronger league.

Lets imagine Kemp was showing exactly the same form but was a foreigner. What would peoples thoughts be then?

 

[Bagpuss]

32 minutes ago, Pinny said:

Will see how he goes this year. Calling him a big deal is over the top though looking at his progress so far.

Absolutely streets behind the top boys on the continent at the moment. Even that Dane, Birkemose? Same age as Kemp, look at what he has achieved so far yet you hardly hear his name.

The problem is, and we are all guilty of it, is Brits love to over hype sportsmen. Same as in football and then when they don't hit the heights many expect, they get criticism. 

It is absolutely nothing personal against him, but I have seen many, many young Brits come around and get rated as this and that and very rarely at best does it happen. I remember Lee Hodgeson at Sheffield at 15 ripping the Conference league apart and being touted as the next British world champion. I remember Barrie Evans at 15 being raved about at 15. Where are they now?

Kemp may well turn out to be a very decent rider and as I have said, this is prime time to do it with the top tiers being so diluted and weak. His national league form looks impressive. However, using the excuse that he got moved into the main body of the side doesn't wash with me. People will remember Andrew Appleton and Chris Neath regularly swapping places at 2 & 7 after starting on a 3.00 for Newport in 1998/9. They both ended on over 5.00 in a stronger league.

Lets imagine Kemp was showing exactly the same form but was a foreigner. What would peoples thoughts be then?

 

I agree with a lot of this, he really needs to be pushing on in the Championship this year and putting several points on his average, also getting meetings for Gdańsk is vital. I feel our youngsters have traditionally had things too comfortable and need to be pushed at every opportunity to get the best out of them. The window of improvement is small and they need to be developing quickly in their teenage years. Kemp and Rowe in particular need to be aiming to be heatleaders in the second division before the end of the season. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Bagpuss

[Pinny]

2 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

I agree with a lot of this, he really needs to be pushing on in the Championship this year and putting several points on his average, also getting meetings for Gdańsk is vital. I feel our youngsters have traditionally had things too comfortable and need to be pushed at every opportunity to get the best out of them. The window of improvement is small and they need to be developing quickly in their teenage years. Kemp and Rowe in particular need to be aiming to be heatleaders in the second division before the end of the season. 

The thing is, it all depends on how far riders want to go. I am under no doubt that quite a few young Brits over the years have been happy to settle for the doubling up in the UK and not push too hard abroad. Which is absolutely fine if they are happy racing regular and earning good money.

The likes of Allen, Stead, Kennett etc ... IMO they could of gone a lot further than they did but I think they were pretty happy with what they had.

[IronScorpion]

20 hours ago, stevebrum said:

Kemp IS another that is a big deal. He still upped his average with Sheffield. 
you clearly have never seen him ride. One of the most natural talents on a bike I’ve ever seen at 15. 

He was assessed as a 2.00 rider but due to having ridden 6 or 7 meetings for Ipswich in 2018, his average would soon rise, as it did, to just over 5. He then moved, mainly, to ride at no2, riding with his own no1 3 times & ending the season with around a 3.6 average.

[Tsunami]

9 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

Yes that would be great that Tsunami just let me know i will have to travel elsewhere for a few meetings as Swindon is not available?What  are the plans for the likes of Archie, The Mcgurk brothers and other up and coming youngsters.??? Are you going to be connected helping out hope so hope it goes well and some of those lads can move up the ladder.

in the case of Archie he is concentrating on the NL along with Danny Smith and Josh Embleton. All local lads but I'm not involved with the new promotion.

[stevebrum]

10 hours ago, Pinny said:

Will see how he goes this year. Calling him a big deal is over the top though looking at his progress so far.

Absolutely streets behind the top boys on the continent at the moment. Even that Dane, Birkemose? Same age as Kemp, look at what he has achieved so far yet you hardly hear his name.

The problem is, and we are all guilty of it, is Brits love to over hype sportsmen. Same as in football and then when they don't hit the heights many expect, they get criticism. 

It is absolutely nothing personal against him, but I have seen many, many young Brits come around and get rated as this and that and very rarely at best does it happen. I remember Lee Hodgeson at Sheffield at 15 ripping the Conference league apart and being touted as the next British world champion. I remember Barrie Evans at 15 being raved about at 15. Where are they now?

Kemp may well turn out to be a very decent rider and as I have said, this is prime time to do it with the top tiers being so diluted and weak. His national league form looks impressive. However, using the excuse that he got moved into the main body of the side doesn't wash with me. People will remember Andrew Appleton and Chris Neath regularly swapping places at 2 & 7 after starting on a 3.00 for Newport in 1998/9. They both ended on over 5.00 in a stronger league.

Lets imagine Kemp was showing exactly the same form but was a foreigner. What would peoples thoughts be then?

 

The problem usually is that any Brit in the recent past that showed any resemblance of talent was over hyped.

We now have kids coming thru that WANT to ride in Poland as they know that’s exactly where they need to be to progress. 
Kemp seems to be seen as a talent in Poland, of course he will have to work harder to prove he can mix it with the other young Poles but like I said he has natural talent so certainly has the ability to break big. 
What the next generation need to do is have a clear pathway thru the leagues, ditch the 2nd tier after 3 seasons and concentrate on the top flight and Europe if they really want to go to another level.

None of the youngsters will progress much further by staying in the UK for the majority of their career, hence why we’ve been at an all time low up to the past couple years ago. 

[Sidney the robin]

On 2/21/2021 at 12:53 PM, spin king said:

The only thing that concerns me about Palin, is too much too soon.

I would imagine that he will be fine in the Championship, but the Premiership will be different matter where he will be mixing it far more experienced riders, even though the league is far weaker.

Brennan is a good prospect, but I would put Drew Kemp and Anders Rowe in front of him..

Brennan has an artificial Championship average as he has only rode in the Championship at reserve on home track that has a big home track advantage whereas both Kemp and Rowe have rode in the main body of he team for their respective teams in 2019.

Brennan has not been tested enough at the moment for m.   

Brennan showed in his few outings with the Robins that he is flexible  coming from the homer Arlington to the Abbey.He was on the pace very much so  he also beat Woryna/ Jackobsen Tom being on a bigger track will help him.Rowe i like very much but Brennan for me is in front of him like Dugard is not a one trick pony and will do well with luck on his side.

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Sidney the robin

[Tsunami]

1 hour ago, stevebrum said:

The problem usually is that any Brit in the recent past that showed any resemblance of talent was over hyped.

We now have kids coming thru that WANT to ride in Poland as they know that’s exactly where they need to be to progress. 
Kemp seems to be seen as a talent in Poland, of course he will have to work harder to prove he can mix it with the other young Poles but like I said he has natural talent so certainly has the ability to break big. 
What the next generation need to do is have a clear pathway thru the leagues, ditch the 2nd tier after 3 seasons and concentrate on the top flight and Europe if they really want to go to another level.

None of the youngsters will progress much further by staying in the UK for the majority of their career, hence why we’ve been at an all time low up to the past couple years ago. 

Well there's never been a better chance of that happening Steve. 

[Sidney the robin]

11 hours ago, Pinny said:

The thing is, it all depends on how far riders want to go. I am under no doubt that quite a few young Brits over the years have been happy to settle for the doubling up in the UK and not push too hard abroad. Which is absolutely fine if they are happy racing regular and earning good money.

The likes of Allen, Stead, Kennett etc ... IMO they could of gone a lot further than they did but I think they were pretty happy with what they had.

The bottom three mentioned were never good anough, all of them to my knowledge had decent aquipment injuries/ circumstances play a huge part in that would say all of them were unlucky injury wise.

[Sidney the robin]

5 hours ago, Tsunami said:

in the case of Archie he is concentrating on the NL along with Danny Smith and Josh Embleton. All local lads but I'm not involved with the new promotion.

That is a shame sure you will have some input along the way hope so anyway.

[Pinny]

4 hours ago, Sidney the robin said:

The bottom three mentioned were never good anough, all of them to my knowledge had decent aquipment injuries/ circumstances play a huge part in that would say all of them were unlucky injury wise.

Kennett in particular at 16 was sensational in the Premier league. Remember him in 02/03 he was superb. 
 

Stead and Allen at 16/17 were also way ahead of Kemp. That is kind of my point , so many riders at that age classed as the real deal. 

[mikebv]

3 hours ago, Pinny said:

Kennett in particular at 16 was sensational in the Premier league. Remember him in 02/03 he was superb. 
 

Stead and Allen at 16/17 were also way ahead of Kemp. That is kind of my point , so many riders at that age classed as the real deal. 

Spot on....

At 16, Joe Screen was riding in the top division of World Spedway and regularly beating genuinely World Class heat leaders, and at 19 winning the BLRC in front of a truly World Class field that would have been full of GP riders if that had existed at the time...

And even with all that, Joe 'only' reached No 6 in the World..

No mean feat at all, but it shows just how far behind these lads are to where he was at their age (and even younger)...

None of them would win races in the Polish top league regularly like Joe did in the equivalent level top league over here...

Maybe they will develop to become 'top level' riders, and riding in Poland will definitely help with that, but there has to be some reality check as to where these lads are actually at...

Genuine World Class talent is usually winning, or finishing top 3, in 'junior' World Championships at Under 21 level...

Scoring maximums in the NDL, or riding at reserve in the Championship, at the same age as those who do win junior World Titles, is miles behind..

Robert Lambert is the most modern example of where you need to be at U21 level to become genuinely World Class..

Let's just give them some slack and see how they go, as being 'World Class' is truly a long, long way off for them all...

 

[Sidney the robin]

5 hours ago, Pinny said:

Kennett in particular at 16 was sensational in the Premier league. Remember him in 02/03 he was superb. 
 

Stead and Allen at 16/17 were also way ahead of Kemp. That is kind of my point , so many riders at that age classed as the real deal. 

You make some  great points i first see Kennett in the old Conference always liked him even enjoyed watching him for Swindon.I would say for a youngster now starting out is alot harder than then though.Kemp's riding in Australia really impressed me and his riding at Belle Vue has come on in leaps and bounds was really involved on the pace in the U21s WTC and showed his progression in the British Final.His main strength i believe is his character he really seems like a really level headed lad willing to listen and work hard fingers crossed for him.

[Fromafar]

3 hours ago, mikebv said:

Spot on....

At 16, Joe Screen was riding in the top division of World Spedway and regularly beating genuinely World Class heat leaders, and at 19 winning the BLRC in front of a truly World Class field that would have been full of GP riders if that had existed at the time...

And even with all that, Joe 'only' reached No 6 in the World..

No mean feat at all, but it shows just how far behind these lads are to where he was at their age (and even younger)...

None of them would win races in the Polish top league regularly like Joe did in the equivalent level top league over here...

Maybe they will develop to become 'top level' riders, and riding in Poland will definitely help with that, but there has to be some reality check as to where these lads are actually at...

Genuine World Class talent is usually winning, or finishing top 3, in 'junior' World Championships at Under 21 level...

Scoring maximums in the NDL, or riding at reserve in the Championship, at the same age as those who do win junior World Titles, is miles behind..

Robert Lambert is the most modern example of where you need to be at U21 level to become genuinely World Class..

Let's just give them some slack and see how they go, as being 'World Class' is truly a long, long way off for them all...

 

It’s a very small percentage in any sport that become” World Class”.Most lifelong supporters will have seen dozens of youngsters who they though were going to be the “real deal” very few will have made it to the Top in GB never mind the World as the record books show.The current crop have adopted a more Professional approach but you still have to produce on the big stage and they are along way off that.IMO.Can only wish them all the best.

[enotian]

If you look at all of the first season averages for the British World Champions it's been about 7 in the 2nd division and 5 in the top flight.  Or higher.  In what were higher standard leagues. 

However a rider like Lee Richardson didn't have a spectacular start to his career but went on to be an International class rider.

The special talents like Lee and Collins would always have achieved on talent alone but its the progression of less naturally talented riders that needs to be facilitated. 

There seems to be a couple of hurdles.  When a youngster reaches the 1 to 5 and struggles and is replaced (as happened to Kemp in 2019) and then once they do reach 2nd division heat leader status kicking on to become International class.  Which there are numerous examples, Danny King for instance.

[Fromafar]

Just now, enotian said:

If you look at all of the first season averages for the British World Champions it's been about 7 in the 2nd division and 5 in the top flight.  Or higher.  In what were higher standard leagues. 

However a rider like Lee Richardson didn't have a spectacular start to his career but went on to be an International class rider.

The special talents like Lee and Collins would always have achieved on talent alone but its the progression of less naturally talented riders that needs to be facilitated. 

There seems to be a couple of hurdles.  When a youngster reaches the 1 to 5 and struggles and is replaced (as happened to Kemp in 2019) and then once they do reach 2nd division heat leader status kicking on to become International class.  Which there are numerous examples, Danny King for instance.

That was in the days when the majority of the Top riders in the World rode in GB,it’s a very different scenario nowadays.Basically the way the to the top is getting into Poland but you have to perform from the day you arrive ,irrespective of what league and level it is.It’s going to be a long road to the top for British youngsters ,but Tai has proved it can be done if your good enough.Good Luck to them all.

[Tsunami]

Just now, Fromafar said:

That was in the days when the majority of the Top riders in the World rode in GB,it’s a very different scenario nowadays.Basically the way the to the top is getting into Poland but you have to perform from the day you arrive ,irrespective of what league and level it is.It’s going to be a long road to the top for British youngsters ,but Tai has proved it can be done if your good enough.Good Luck to them all.

...and Robert Lambert 

[Fromafar]

5 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

...and Robert Lambert 

Robert is getting there ,he got his GP slot through a easier route though.( well deserved).he has had previous experience in GP so it will be interesting to see how he performs this year.Many Top riders  have failed in the real GP qualifiers  throughout the years.You need the bit of luck in this sport.