workington ..

[Fortythirtyeight]

1 hour ago, gazzac said:

I'll put my old record on again ( sorry for the umpteenth time ) but we had the perfect NL back in 2015/18 and was some where near the true level of middling British speedway, certainly for the likes of Birmingham and Eastbourne, ideal for Newcastle/Workington/ IOW etc as well, need to get back to that level, whether it's current NL+ or Championship lite. 

Yes, the good old days when a number of NL clubs paid certain riders Championship wages , yes, that’s the way forward , get rid of the likes of Buxton , the only club paying their riders the agreed rates but could not compete with the Birminghams, Eastbourne’s, Cradleys etc.

There needs to be a balance. There wasn’t one then, there isn’t one now. It’s gone from one end of the spectrum to the other.

Will it ever change?

[gazzac]

2 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

Yes, the good old days when a number of NL clubs paid certain riders Championship wages , yes, that’s the way forward , get rid of the likes of Buxton , the only club paying their riders the agreed rates but could not compete with the Birminghams, Eastbourne’s, Cradleys etc.

There needs to be a balance. There wasn’t one then, there isn’t one now. It’s gone from one end of the spectrum to the other.

Will it ever change?

But overall a far cheaper option than Championship, the likes of Buxton haven't returned to the current NL cheaper option I suppose. As you say some teams will always lose out, but looking forward more teams would do a NL + or disappear like Buxton/Newcastle etc.

[crescent girl]

4 hours ago, M.D said:

The start up costs to go straight into championship level are eye watering..

Correct.   Huge -- really huge -- difference in operating costs.    NDL will be fine for a couple of year, build up a nest-egg of funding, pay off start-up bills

[singy13]

27 minutes ago, crescent girl said:

Correct.   Huge -- really huge -- difference in operating costs.    NDL will be fine for a couple of year, build up a nest-egg of funding, pay off start-up bills

Go on then marras back up your words and give us some reasonable guesstimates............. + or - a few k will be fine.

[M.D]

46 minutes ago, singy13 said:

Go on then marras back up your words and give us some reasonable guesstimates............. + or - a few k will be fine.

It would be somewhat crass to put actual figures on a public forum but trust me, the BSPL costs alone are not exactly welcoming for a new promotion at either level..

[mikebv]

6 minutes ago, M.D said:

It would be somewhat crass to put actual figures on a public forum but trust me, the BSPL costs alone are not exactly welcoming for a new promotion at either level..

As, dont forget, every new club in whatever league is a threat to the teams already there.. 

They might even use some of the riders currently contracted to other teams..

And. Heaven forbid, they go on to win one of the leagues..

Leagues rendered almost worthless by the very operating model that those incumbent "custodians of the sport" utilise, but they will never see that...

The phrase "you couldnt make it up" was never so apt as it is for UK Speedway..

Best of luck with your plans, the more teams out there "spreading the word" has to be more beneficial for the sport as a whole long term, than having old Speedway clubs with decades of running the sport successfully lying idle...

[singy13]

7 minutes ago, M.D said:

It would be somewhat crass to put actual figures on a public forum but trust me, the BSPL costs alone are not exactly welcoming for a new promotion at either level..

OK I bow to your superior speedway knowledge.  It's just so annoying that a sport that is clearly dying on its wheels and yet those in control (ho, ho, ho) i.e. the scary BSPL seemingly make it so difficult for any new promotion - why, why, why?

I will have everything that's possible crossed in hope that the Worky Comets manage to overcome the costs and fly around the Northside arena....................but who's gonna be left to provide opposition?

[mikebv]

3 hours ago, gazzac said:

I'll put my old record on again ( sorry for the umpteenth time ) but we had the perfect NL back in 2015/18 and was some where near the true level of middling British speedway, certainly for the likes of Birmingham and Eastbourne, ideal for Newcastle/Workington/ IOW etc as well, need to get back to that level, whether it's current NL+ or Championship lite. 

The unpalatable truth for some was that the level in those days was "the perfect one" for UK Speedway..

Hardly anyone really takes any of the competitions seriously anyway so watching young lads of a similar ability level, making their way in the sport, augmented by a few seasoned riders, at a price point that delivered excellent value for money, was an excellent product.. 

That level of Speedway, with a true "top league" being clearly of a significantly higher standard, would have been the model to follow..

That though would have had Championship promoters frothing at the mouth...

 

[M.D]

19 minutes ago, singy13 said:

OK I bow to your superior speedway knowledge.  It's just so annoying that a sport that is clearly dying on its wheels and yet those in control (ho, ho, ho) i.e. the scary BSPL seemingly make it so difficult for any new promotion - why, why, why?

I will have everything that's possible crossed in hope that the Worky Comets manage to overcome the costs and fly around the Northside arena....................but who's gonna be left to provide opposition?

I do apologise, I didn't wish to come over as being superior to anybody.

I wish the best of luck to Workington and any new club trying to get the sport back.on track

[Ovalman]

4 hours ago, HGould said:

I think it depends who/how is funding it.

Oxford are doing phenominally well but seem to have a significant budget behind them over a few years and it will be interesting to see how those figues stack up in year 2 if the team sn't delivering better results on the Track. I think too that they are pulling in some support from Swindon, Reading , even Coventry when I was there , that have been starved of Speedway for so long. A far bigger catchment area than Workington as an example.

The scenarios of the last few Clubs to either move up or change hands and be in CL, Brummies / Eastbourne / Newcastle seems to be a case of good intentions on limited budgets and possibly a nievity in terms of the costs involved and the cost to build competitive Teams and of course Covid did no one any favours. Hearts ruling heads and the resultant struggles.

It may be better to have a low budget and lower breakeven in the NDL for a year, and get everything set up and working before making that move up with some proven indication of the level of support and level of sponsorship.

The other plain fact is that it's easier to be a big fish in a small pond especially with a competitive team than it is a little fish in a big pond with a team that's not competitive or good enough to win trophies where fans who mostly want success over the spectacle of the product can quickly drift away and Workington lets not forget WON everything going in 2018 yet still folded as the support had drfted away for whatever reason.

The set up at Workington looks fantastic but as someone has said will need to bed in and be gradually improved. Imagine the foundations they could build with 1000 fans in NDL for a year; as opposed to 1000 in CL and just surviving probably. 

 

Their support went from 1200 when I went in 2004/5 to about 600/700 when they won everything in 2018??!!why.? Just not enough interest. same as Newcastle, lost half their fans. Oxford have started with a few 2000 capacity crowds but must sustain the interest which has waned a bit due to the 2 home defeats in last 3 matches at Sandy Lane.

Edited July 18, 2022 by auntie doris

[singy13]

1 hour ago, auntie doris said:

Their support went from 1200 when I went in 2004/5 to about 600/700 when they won everything in 2018??!!why.? Just not enough interest. same as Newcastle, lost half their fans. Oxford have started with a few 2000 capacity crowds but must sustain the interest which has waned a bit due to the 2 home defeats in last 3 matches at Sandy Lane.

Sometimes in 2018 at Worky less than the 600/700..........................I remember a very poor Newcastle team attracting hardly any Workington/west Cumbria folk...think that was the 387 gate referred to earlier.....Comets also lost a cup match at Armadale by 59-31.....so 24 hours later at Derwent Park I was sat amidst loads of empty grandstand seats - locals obviously thinking why bother Comets are out of cup? - But.... the great Danes and co. amazingly turned it around ,albeit aided by a stupid error that got Ricky Wells excluded in heat 15 for 'delaying the start'......great stuff *ref, ha, ha.  (remember that night THJ ?)......

That started the end of season bonanza, crowds returned, the grandstand was packed again, but sadly all too late to save the promotions losses.

* that top quality referee has now retired.....thanks for the great service to the sport SW.

Edited July 18, 2022 by singy13
added words

[Sings4Speedway]

4 hours ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

Yes, the good old days when a number of NL clubs paid certain riders Championship wages , yes, that’s the way forward , get rid of the likes of Buxton , the only club paying their riders the agreed rates but could not compete with the Birminghams, Eastbourne’s, Cradleys etc.

There needs to be a balance. There wasn’t one then, there isn’t one now. It’s gone from one end of the spectrum to the other.

Will it ever change?

Buxtons major problem (apart from Pipe) was that it refused to accept it was any different to other clubs and refused to approach things in a different way. If they had been forever open that the track isnt the greatest, we don't pay much but we are loyal to our riders it would have gone a huge way. Instead they were generally belligerent and chopped riders in and out the sides constantly. A weekend track with training and second half options could have churned out riders year after year but instead "we know best" closed a venue that was potentially ahead of its time.

[TotallyHonestJohn]

10 hours ago, singy13 said:

12:00 might be a tad early for many riders, if they are to travel on the morning, and any away fans might not like it.  Suit us locals though lol.

Maybe such as 5 p.m. more convenient for the majority? Or 6 to encourage keen soccer element?

Guess you'll need power at any time for starting gates and all the various lights, especially red and green?

Riders can make it and they appreciate the early finish... the early start is to get the fans in before the other available sports on offer kick off... we get at their cash first not second... plus 5 pm start without floodlights might be pushing it in March April and early May then again from September into October... small power isn't a problem it's the somewhere near 50KW of power for the floodlighting which is an issue...  not so much the running cost which will be somewhere between 10 to 15 quid an hour to run but to install a compliant system isn't cheap...

In at 12 out by 2 and you will still have your whole day ahead of you to do what you want... football rugby or if I'm allowed to swear Shopping!!! Then home in time to watch the GP on the telly... when it's dark and cold outside...

Regards 

THJ 

[Justgotmecpc]

1 hour ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Buxtons major problem (apart from Pipe) was that it refused to accept it was any different to other clubs and refused to approach things in a different way. If they had been forever open that the track isnt the greatest, we don't pay much but we are loyal to our riders it would have gone a huge way. Instead they were generally belligerent and chopped riders in and out the sides constantly. A weekend track with training and second half options could have churned out riders year after year but instead "we know best" closed a venue that was potentially ahead of its time.

So your not a fan of Jason pipe then

[Ovalman]

Oxford a bit different to Worky as well, Oxford catchment area within 50 miles is millions, includes half of London area, Reading, Swindon, Milton Keynes, Cumbria mainly rural, sheep, lakes, border collies, and thousands of marrasOnly city within 40 miles is Carlisle, half the size of Oxford.

Edited July 19, 2022 by auntie doris

[Sings4Speedway]

9 hours ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

Riders can make it and they appreciate the early finish... the early start is to get the fans in before the other available sports on offer kick off... we get at their cash first not second... plus 5 pm start without floodlights might be pushing it in March April and early May then again from September into October... small power isn't a problem it's the somewhere near 50KW of power for the floodlighting which is an issue...  not so much the running cost which will be somewhere between 10 to 15 quid an hour to run but to install a compliant system isn't cheap...

In at 12 out by 2 and you will still have your whole day ahead of you to do what you want... football rugby or if I'm allowed to swear Shopping!!! Then home in time to watch the GP on the telly... when it's dark and cold outside...

Regards 

THJ 

Kent are operating the same model at Iwade and appears to be working, early start, early out (or stay and watch any additional second half racing). No need for floodlights, home at a decent hour for a decent dinner on a Sunday and its a more family friendly timescale.

[Sings4Speedway]

8 hours ago, Justgotmecpc said:

So your not a fan of Jason pipe then

I think his intentions have always come from a good place but actions are either cringeworthy comedic or just plain belligerent and stubborn.....think Laurence Rogers x 2. 

[soupy]

Hope they go Super Elite with the new breakaway polish league in uk.Worth travelling over to Marra land and even a season ticket will be bought here.

[gazzac]

4 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Kent are operating the same model at Iwade and appears to be working, early start, early out (or stay and watch any additional second half racing). No need for floodlights, home at a decent hour for a decent dinner on a Sunday and its a more family friendly timescale.

Think it's ideal especially for NL, main proviso is the track, keeping dust down especially, if thats all sorted with a good track man certainly worth trying.

[singy13]

16 hours ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

In at 12 out by 2 and you will still have your whole day ahead of you to do what you want... football rugby or if I'm allowed to swear Shopping!!! Then home in time to watch the GP on the telly... when it's dark and cold outside...

Wow that sounds so idyllic......and being on my lonesome these days I don't have consider the latter, hurrah ( I do miss her tho).

I can actually remember ( here I go Mr. Nostalgia) however, back in the Stoney era, watching my RL team - up the Town- on a Sunday aft then dashing home to Egremont (12 miles ish) grabbing a sarny and tekkin the dog out on a rapid  walk - toilet sorted, dog, and then back in vehicle and off again to Derwent Park for the evening speedway treat....great stuff. Don't think I could stand that pace now, although I would give it a go........whoops don't have dog -oh well much easier then .

Hopefully Andrew and gang get this major northside operation ship shape and he can afford the scary BSPL agenda....roll on high noon!!!!