workington ..

[soupy]

8 minutes ago, ruffdiamond said:

Whatever happened to 'the customer is always right'?

The customer is always right even though they are wrong

[TotallyHonestJohn]

On 11/9/2019 at 6:45 PM, screm said:

I thought that in these instances the bond that the Workington promotion would have paid to the BSPA when they took over the club would take care of these kind of things. You wonder how far down the list outstanding payments to riders actually is.

This is a very complicated issue (administration); however the Bond paid by clubs is an issue in itself; and in this instance will have been around £10k due to the club having assets that potentially could be set against any loss (by being sold off), however the asset system is flawed, and the club bond was due to rise again in 2019. (maybe due to depreciating assets but I don't honestly know) Now I will happily stand corrected but someone from Lakeside could possibly enlighten us; however I am led to believe that the Lakeside promotion were asked for a £50k Bond in their last season which raised a few eyebrows at the time and when Lakeside closed the Bond did not cover what was owed by the promotion and the BSPA went back for more and were told where to go, now that is a very abridged version of what happened to the Bond in that instance but it does indicate that the Bond offers very little protection and when there are losses and debts wracked up in excess of £100k a 10k or 50k bond doesn't go very far. 

4 hours ago, SteelShoe said:

I'm a former season ticket holder but hadn't got round to purchasing a season ticket for 2019 when the sad news we wouldn't be running broke. I personally know four supporters who had purchased season tickets and to date have not been reimbursed. It would be easy to be critical about the financial and business management of the club however, I don't know the full story but I think it fair to say it wasn't financially well managed and the fallout has subsequently detrimentally biased the possibility of somebody else taking it on.

 

The business plan; which has been discussed on here in the past; was set out at the start of the season and was fit for purpose, unfortunately or fortunately which ever way you wish to look at things; due to the success of the team; which far exceeded everyone's expectations; just blew the budget apart and where the management failing was IMHO; is that there was not the contingency plan in place to finance a successful team; which may seem ironic as you are in it to win it but the team was never built to be treble winners, however the whole thing gained a momentum which was unstoppable and the cost of that success was never budgeted for...

2 hours ago, *JJ said:

Season ticket holders are very much at the back of the queue: when Birmingham went bust in 2014, I had a ST, but when the company had been wound up, it turned out that the administrators hung on to most of the cash, so we got nothing.

Quite correct the Administrators get their slice of any available cash first; and from experience I can share that our company were hit by the ROK PLC collapse in November 2010 and we were owed some £292k and had to pay £51k of VAT (reclaimed back after 6 month as "Bad Debt") and through consequential losses like having to pay our sub contractors and suppliers we lost another £220k so the impact to this business was in excess of £500k. Now guess how much we got back off those nice people at Price Waterhouse Cooper this February 2019, and yes 2019 that's nearly eight and a half years later, any guesses? £847:68 pence, yep we were awarded something like 0.003 pence for every pound owed and had to be thankful for it... best laugh was PWC bumped us of approximately six quid because they "got their sums wrong" but it would have cost £30 quid to query the error... 

1 hour ago, SteelShoe said:

  I reckon it was 6 seasons Geoff . I seem to remember that Laura initially took it on for 2 seasons with an option to extend. I think 5 years was the original quoted max . It was the treble winning sixth season that got Laura her just rewards and brought success for the die hard fans, it was just really sad that it was at such a financial cost.

Correct SS however possibly I would suggest a poor choice of words in "just rewards" as it has cost her an awful lot just to win that treble... but I understand your sentiment.. If the "Non Die Hard Fans" the people who now bemoan the loss of the team/club had of supported the club at home more regularly it may have been a different story now. If the clowns (the so called fans of speedway) who derided not just this promotion but the previous promotions on this site and on the unofficial forum had half a brain cell to recognised the damage they were doing to the club with constant negative posts; maybe if they had been a bit more positive and supportive the thing might still be there/here... When one poor quality cup of tea rumbled on the two forums for nearly 10 weeks into the season absolutely crippling the turnover of the Blue and White Cafe impacting club profits; well... its clowns like that who should look closely at themselves as they have contributed substantially to the demise of the club... which includes the balloon who started this thread and his little gang of "Bum Chums" it absolutely boils my bladder... I got a bad cup of tea and I am very important and demand quality as I am paying to get in and it is awful that the tea wasn't nice and it is a fundamental right that I get a quality cup of tea that I have paid for... Honestly get over it take it back to where you got it from and say "here get this changed or give me my money back" not save it for posterity and moan about it on every platform possible you can... I was fully expecting to see something on the front page of the Times and Star or the local news "crap tea at Derwent Park someone should be flogged" and here's me thinking Monica Lewinsky was sad keeping a dress for nearly 10 year covered in Pineapple (Allegedly)

A sport like this and a club like Worky needs a solid fan base... it needs the fans to pull together and get involved and if that is just buying 50/50 or raffle tickets or supporting events put on by the club so be it... but the thing has to make money to run and everyone is aware of the financial constraints. All Keith Denham wanted was to cover his losses, he was happy to put 5 to 10 grand of his own (personal not Armstrongs) cash in to run the Speedway but when the losses started to rise to the £20/30k levels he asked for support, he wanted 100 more people through the door, and what happened? he was absolutely slated off the Worky Troll brigade on both forums... they were instrumental in him walking away; their abuse of a genuine fan of Speedway...

I consider myself a "Die Hard Fan" and as someone who sponsored the Comets over 5 seasons and increased my financial input each year until I done a double year sponsorship deal in the last two seasons I am personally devastated at the loss of the club but until the "Clowns" realise; the trolls; who slate or put down the club at every opportunity, until they realise you cant kick a horse down a street then expect to get onto it and ride off into the sunset... it wont happen... "Clowns to the left and jenga to the right" "Trolls stuck in the middle with you!"

I hope it does come back and I will support it with cash and all I would ask is "if it does come back can the knob heads who took every opportunity to deride; slag off and generally shaft the previous promotions to either get with the programme and support whatever the new owners are trying to achieved or if it gives you the hump that much just stay away"

30 minutes ago, singy13 said:

They gave us the best, most exciting, finish ever to a season.....e.g. The Glasgow all in a day drama, the massive cup recovery v the Monarchs, the Scunthorpe and Lakeside victories - all unforgettable........brilliant speedway.

As said on here earlier it was those Saturday stay-aways who eventually did the major damage.

I think you are correct though in that "it will never return"...I don't envisage the newly laid Derwent Park pitch being ripped up again to accommodate a speedway track...sadly not.

Whilst I have been doing war and peace this has landed in; and well said; also from one die hard fan to another "never say never" it wont come back to DP that's gone for sure but there is a good guy locally giving it a real go to bring something back; I just hope I live long enough to see it... LOL

23 minutes ago, ruffdiamond said:

Whatever happened to 'the customer is always right'?

Soupy got there before me 

14 minutes ago, soupy said:

The customer is always right even though they are wrong

Correct and well said

Rant (for now) over

Regards
THJ

Edited November 11, 2019 by TotallyHonestJohn

[SteelShoe]

 Just loved that rant THJ,  spoken with the passion of a man who loved the club and backed it every which way he could. More guys like you fella and we would indeed still be running. I too look forward to the day it returns and indeed hope I live long enough to see it .

[jenga]

in reply to THJ and his multi comments , i agree with most of them . but the customer is king . i and  many others still attended workington speedways last season , a glorious one at that .. the product could have lasted a bit longer than it did . the cafe stuff, many fans tried to make it known about the quality of certain items .  supporters where i stood still bought 50/50 ticket and even still supporters the cafe . sure , i have not been the best customer that workington had , but i did not close the unofficial forum down . all they had to do was to pull my membership , no more me ..limp chips and  warm tea/coffee was a regular thing but it got to the point when enough was enough . 

you will always get fans disagreeing with promotions of any sport . its human nature . if you dont make the management aware ,then they dont do anything about it .i sent comet dan (moody) a pm about the condition of the food etc . i had no reply and it  just carried on .  

will i return if  it returns . of course. thats if THJ lets me in .

MERRY CHRISTMAS  everyone , war is over .lol 

[Bagpuss]

Why did they stop going though? Probably best to ask that question before blaming people who used to go. 

[ruffdiamond]

2 hours ago, soupy said:

The customer is always right even though they are wrong

and THJ

So they say, and what happens when the customer doesn't feel that the product on offer isn't for them anymore?,,, they may stop going to that particular place. So it is quite possible that the fall in attendances may be linked to the product on offer.

[soupy]

41 minutes ago, ruffdiamond said:

and THJ

So they say, and what happens when the customer doesn't feel that the product on offer isn't for them anymore?,,, they may stop going to that particular place. So it is quite possible that the fall in attendances may be linked to the product on offer.

I totally agree and lack of communication between management and fans does not always help either.

[TotallyHonestJohn]

1 hour ago, ruffdiamond said:

and THJ

So they say, and what happens when the customer doesn't feel that the product on offer isn't for them anymore?,,, they may stop going to that particular place. So it is quite possible that the fall in attendances may be linked to the product on offer.

Don't disagree but there is a right way and a wrong way to raise an issue and you deal face to face... Complaints can be resolved amicably without all the drama... what you don't do is take up a mission on forums to denigrate a whole product or promotion over a cup of tea, making the issue personal on a forum visited by many people is just totally wrong and not giving anyone the opportunity to put the issue right in the first place is gutless and totally out of order as well... it only takes one turd in a swimming pool to put people off and the taint can spread exponentially and look at the size of the pool... its not the first time I have had a duff pint at Brough Park and took it back to the bar and said "summat up with that" and the guys there have been fantastic and changed it straight away without any drama; or my other pet hate a short pull on a pint especially when it would be cheaper to drink Petrol than the beer on sale and look at how hard petrol is to obtain (the other is basically chemicals and water mixed in a bath) Gallon of Petrol £5:86 Gallon of Larger at Brough £29:60 (and I do in two gallon per meeting at least) But what I don't do is come on here and "Bitch and Wine" on how bad it was; Oh I got a short measure; what a bad pint; it was the promotions fault; or it was the biggest travesty since Maradona's "hand of god" goal... it can happen anywhere at any time...

All that public bitching and moaning only had to put off half a dozen locals from buying food or one away fan from travelling and the loss it there, and if the away fan is the driver that becomes 4 at £15 quid there's 60 quid for a start and in a sport that is starved of cash its the thin end of the wedge... and the product we are talking about here is the supplementary product not the main event which is the Speedway; and rest assured no one can complain about the product on the track at Worky in their last season because I had been going for the previous 9 years and it was the best it had ever been in 2018, and I defy anyone to say otherwise...

So if "the fall in attendances was linked to the product on offer" it certainly wasn't the Speedway that is for sure and which Clown in their right mind highlights the negatives of a product when they know the issues surrounding the product, its like they didn't want the place to succeed; they wanted it to fail; they had/have an ulterior motive... or they are just ignorant and stupid... 

Oh hang on there's a few of them that fit I would say thinking about it...

Regards
THJ

Edited November 11, 2019 by TotallyHonestJohn

[jenga]

anyone that complained about food , drink . still went to support the comets. maybe did not go the the cafe as often tho . but they still supported the main product . when people had a bad cup of tea/coffee , there was no use asking for another drink/chips or burger because you were only going to get the same product as a replacement . also if you looked back ,the crowds were falling off even when stoney was riding .there .. 

[ruffdiamond]

1 hour ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

Don't disagree but there is a right way and a wrong way to raise an issue and you deal face to face... Complaints can be resolved amicably without all the drama... what you don't do is take up a mission on forums to denigrate a whole product or promotion over a cup of tea, making the issue personal on a forum visited by many people is just totally wrong and not giving anyone the opportunity to put the issue right in the first place is gutless and totally out of order as well... it only takes one turd in a swimming pool to put people off and the taint can spread exponentially and look at the size of the pool... its not the first time I have had a duff pint at Brough Park and took it back to the bar and said "summat up with that" and the guys there have been fantastic and changed it straight away without any drama; or my other pet hate a short pull on a pint especially when it would be cheaper to drink Petrol than the beer on sale and look at how hard petrol is to obtain (the other is basically chemicals and water mixed in a bath) Gallon of Petrol £5:86 Gallon of Larger at Brough £29:60 (and I do in two gallon per meeting at least) But what I don't do is come on here and "Bitch and Wine" on how bad it was; Oh I got a short measure; what a bad pint; it was the promotions fault; or it was the biggest travesty since Maradona's "hand of god" goal... it can happen anywhere at any time...

All that public bitching and moaning only had to put off half a dozen locals from buying food or one away fan from travelling and the loss it there, and if the away fan is the driver that becomes 4 at £15 quid there's 60 quid for a start and in a sport that is starved of cash its the thin end of the wedge... and the product we are talking about here is the supplementary product not the main event which is the Speedway; and rest assured no one can complain about the product on the track at Worky in their last season because I had been going for the previous 9 years and it was the best it had ever been in 2018, and I defy anyone to say otherwise...

So if "the fall in attendances was linked to the product on offer" it certainly wasn't the Speedway that is for sure and which Clown in their right mind highlights the negatives of a product when they know the issues surrounding the product, its like they didn't want the place to succeed; they wanted it to fail; they had/have an ulterior motive... or they are just ignorant and stupid... 

Oh hang on there's a few of them that fit I would say thinking about it...

Regards
THJ

Not saying there isn't a right or wrong way of doing things, but by folk saying it's the stay away customers isn't right either. 

If you have a shop and people stop coming in, eventually the shop will shut.

I don't think you can stop folk from moaning/complaining especially in today's society, but it's a 2 way street.

If you fail to see failings in a business its likely to go t!ts up.

I don't accept 'jenga's dodgy cuppa' as what's behind speedways failings, it may not help, but surely it's not the straw that broke the camels back.

[singy13]

28 minutes ago, jenga said:

also if you looked back ,the crowds were falling off even when stoney was riding .there .. 

I've always held the opinion that Speedway is a sort of novelty sport. In that I mean when a team debuts at it's own track a large crowd assembles. Many folk are interested in the actual racing, BUT another, large, percentage are only there to see thrills, SPILLS, and excitement...The match score being a secondary factor to those types.

And they are unfortunately the fans who get bored quickly and lose interest thereby becoming ex fans....so that opening night figure of thousands dilutes to the hardcore support.

When Ian Thomas, Stoney, Brent and co. revitalised the sport at Derwent Park in 1999 that opening crowd of, reportedly, 4,500 gradually receded over a couple of seasons to (reportedly) 1,200.....even with that figure Ian Thomas kept saying "the honeymoon at Workington is not over".......but in reality we could see the crowds dwindle.

And in my own mind I had alarm bells ringing, don't think I was alone with that dark clouded view. Then sadly when there were/was crowd(s), of just *390 ( *quoted to me by the then announcer, a friend and soccer foe lol) then obviously all was not well, and the struggle was certainly so difficult for the promoters....however I still believe, that as indeed was proven by packed Grandstands in October 2018, that speedway deserves another chance at Workington..

.............hopefully our forum friend THJ is spot on regarding someone working toward this next new beginning. BELIEVE>>>>>>>>>

[TotallyHonestJohn]

1 hour ago, ruffdiamond said:

I don't accept 'jenga's dodgy cuppa' as what's behind speedways failings, it may not help, but surely it's not the straw that broke the camels back.

No it was one of a multitude of malicious and wilful actions that were a reletless onslaught on the Denham and Morgan tenures at Derwent Park... he was a one man wrecking crew who made wildly over the top comments and statements that were very personal and wholly untrue and I know he came close on several occasions of being not only banned from the stadium but being prosecuted for libel and slander... he should count himself lucky and shut his hole because if he had of been outed soonet than he was he had some very wealthy people gunning for him who would have taken great pleasure in dragging him through the legal system... unfortunately you don't know the history and you are trying to defend the indefensible the man is a malignant tumour on the bottom of humanity and if you want the "low down" send me a PM but the misanthropic miscreant has had enough air time of me on here and as his life twin Forest Gump was heard to say "that's all I have to say on that"...

Regards

THJ 

 

[ruffdiamond]

21 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

No it was one of a multitude of malicious and wilful actions that were a reletless onslaught on the Denham and Morgan tenures at Derwent Park... he was a one man wrecking crew who made wildly over the top comments and statements that were very personal and wholly untrue and I know he came close on several occasions of being not only banned from the stadium but being prosecuted for libel and slander... he should count himself lucky and shut his hole because if he had of been outed soonet than he was he had some very wealthy people gunning for him who would have taken great pleasure in dragging him through the legal system... unfortunately you don't know the history and you are trying to defend the indefensible the man is a malignant tumour on the bottom of humanity and if you want the "low down" send me a PM but the misanthropic miscreant has had enough air time of me on here and as his life twin Forest Gump was heard to say "that's all I have to say on that"...

Regards

THJ 

 

No need for a PM, if jenga was, as you say that bad or whatever, why wasn't he just told to ffff off and not come back?,,, am sure it's not too much to oust one bad apple from your place of business, before all the rest were infected. Surely all promoters have the right to refuse entry.

No smoke without fire.

But putting all that aside, speedway is losing popularity, there will be debates on why from many fans for whatever reasons.

What do fans want to see, what do fans not want to see?

or should they just be told what to see? 

[Byker Biker]

10 hours ago, jamlad said:

Pretty disgusting that Riders from the best season in History are still waiting to get paid  season ticket holders who bought tickets haven't been re-imbursed I know that for a fact !! That promotion ruined Speedway in Workington , it will never return they've  damaged it that much !!! 

Ruined it so much they gave hundreds of thousands of pounds to do their best. Your disgust should be aimed at the insolvency laws unfortunately businesses cannot pick and choose who gets paid once insolvent there is a strict legal pecking order.

[TotallyHonestJohn]

11 hours ago, ruffdiamond said:

What do fans want to see, what do fans not want to see?

or should they just be told what to see? 

He was told to "go forth and multiply" and started crying like a baby at the gate and soft poop Steve Whitehead let him back in under licence on the premise he made a written apology and "heart of stone" here was screaming at him to smack him in the mouth and chase him an Laura got the casting vote and went with Steve...  The other thing was he was hiding behind an assumed name using this anonymity to put forward his malicious content and bile  to the detriment of the club...

And on your final question is that a Mickey take or What?

If I turn up to a Speedway meeting I personally want to see 15 heats of hard close racing with pleanty of passing.... and preferably a 49 - 41 result for my team but I would settle for a 46 - 44 win if push come to shove...

What I don't like seeing is lots of falls processional racing and massive one sided humping's of 60 points or more...

Unless you are blind no one can tell you what to see (or watch) so sorry I don't get the premise on that one...

And surely it's down to your 7 riders as selected by a promotion which you turn up to watch religiously each week as the product you see? How the flock can you be told what to see? Ya not on the old Vino again are ya...

Regards 

THJ 

Edited November 12, 2019 by TotallyHonestJohn
Edited for accuracy

[soupy]

36 minutes ago, ruffdiamond said:

No need for a PM, if jenga was, as you say that bad or whatever, why wasn't he just told to ffff off and not come back?,,, am sure it's not too much to oust one bad apple from your place of business, before all the rest were infected. Surely all promoters have the right to refuse entry.

No smoke without fire.

But putting all that aside, speedway is losing popularity, there will be debates on why from many fans for whatever reasons.

What do fans want to see, what do fans not want to see?

or should they just be told what to see? 

You can refuse entry without an explanation and tell them politely,You  do not have to give any reasoning either.

[Tsunami]

4 hours ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

Don't disagree but there is a right way and a wrong way to raise an issue and you deal face to face... Complaints can be resolved amicably without all the drama... what you don't do is take up a mission on forums to denigrate a whole product or promotion over a cup of tea, making the issue personal on a forum visited by many people is just totally wrong and not giving anyone the opportunity to put the issue right in the first place is gutless and totally out of order as well... it only takes one turd in a swimming pool to put people off and the taint can spread exponentially and look at the size of the pool... its not the first time I have had a duff pint at Brough Park and took it back to the bar and said "summat up with that" and the guys there have been fantastic and changed it straight away without any drama; or my other pet hate a short pull on a pint especially when it would be cheaper to drink Petrol than the beer on sale and look at how hard petrol is to obtain (the other is basically chemicals and water mixed in a bath) Gallon of Petrol £5:86 Gallon of Larger at Brough £29:60 (and I do in two gallon per meeting at least) But what I don't do is come on here and "Bitch and Wine" on how bad it was; Oh I got a short measure; what a bad pint; it was the promotions fault; or it was the biggest travesty since Maradona's "hand of god" goal... it can happen anywhere at any time...

All that public bitching and moaning only had to put off half a dozen locals from buying food or one away fan from travelling and the loss it there, and if the away fan is the driver that becomes 4 at £15 quid there's 60 quid for a start and in a sport that is starved of cash its the thin end of the wedge... and the product we are talking about here is the supplementary product not the main event which is the Speedway; and rest assured no one can complain about the product on the track at Worky in their last season because I had been going for the previous 9 years and it was the best it had ever been in 2018, and I defy anyone to say otherwise...

So if "the fall in attendances was linked to the product on offer" it certainly wasn't the Speedway that is for sure and which Clown in their right mind highlights the negatives of a product when they know the issues surrounding the product, its like they didn't want the place to succeed; they wanted it to fail; they had/have an ulterior motive... or they are just ignorant and stupid... 

Oh hang on there's a few of them that fit I would say thinking about it...

Regards
THJ

Very well said THJ. Too many(usual culprits) seem to look for negative threads so they can jump in for another moan, giving all the things that the promotions should do cos they say so. Generally on here they admit they don't go, and it's year since they were at a meeting. These are the sort of people who are 'dropping the turd in the pool" to quote your example in a following post.. I assume it makes them big in their little world (I told them) but it does poison the atmosphere and only encourages others to drag up their favourite gripe even though they haven't been for years and "wouldn't go back enen if they gave me a free season ticket - Moxey". if you have a problem, deal with it with the person responsible and it's likely you will get some action. Instead it's moan, moan, moan. 

[Tsunami]

44 minutes ago, Byker Biker said:

Ruined it so much they gave hundreds of thousands of pounds to do their best. Your disgust should be aimed at the insolvency laws unfortunately businesses cannot pick and choose who gets paid once insolvent there is a strict legal pecking order.

Although the Bond that is lodged with the BSPA is used for speedway debts such as to riders (at a fixed rate), and money owed between clubs and the BSPA/SCB.

[ruffdiamond]

11 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

And on your final question is that a Mickey take or What?

If I turn up to a Speedway meeting I personally want to see 15 heats of hard close racing with pleanty of passing.... and preferably a 49 - 41 result for my team but I would settle for a 46 - 44 win if push come to shove...

What I don't like seeing is lots of falls processional racing and massive one sided humping's of 60 points or more...

Unless you are blind no one can tell you what to see (or watch) so sorry I don't get the premise on that one...

And surely it's down to your 7 riders as selected by a promotion which you turn up to watch religiously each week as the product you see? How the flock can you be told what to see? Ya not on the old Vino again are ya...

Regards 

THJ 

No, and I remember the first part of your post.

You've said what you like to see or not see. Is that what all fans want to see and do they see it?,,, If not they might think about not returning. Some people (geeks)?,,, might be into the rules and regulations of the sport, and that is a proper can of worms. I don't think that the ever changing rule book helps tho, but who is responsible for making the rules?,,,

Not everyone might be of the same opinion as you and might attend the meetings for a different buzz.

Good, close, exciting meetings are a great spectacle, but don't happen too often,,, so what's that down to?

[ruffdiamond]

15 minutes ago, Tsunami said:

 if you have a problem, deal with it with the person responsible and it's likely you will get some action. Instead it's moan, moan, moan. 

Just tell them straight Dave, that's the best way,,, just hope their not over sensitive