If you want to know what’s wrong with British speedway

[Icicle]

3 hours ago, g13webb said:

, in front of poultry attendances has to be a recipe for disaster..

 

 

  

Ducks or Hens??

[Daniel Smith]

I think the flow of the meetings is a major thing. There's far more of 'nothing going on' than actual racing'. 

Obviously there are the usual things like crashes that can stall a meeting but there are other means to quicken up the flow of racing. 

Getting rider's on track: always be a heat ahead, i.e. at the start of the meeting after parade etc the rider's for heat 1 & 2 come out. Heat 2 rider's sit on the centre ready. When Heat 1 is complete and those riders are on there way back to the pits, the rider's for heat 3 sit in the centre etc etc.

Time allowance: The 2 mins are on automatically when the last rider from the previous heat crosses the line. Like GP's, have to be ready to race when the 2 mins clock is 0.

2 rides on the trot: If a rider has 2 heat consecutive they must ride their spare bike and be ready in the 2 mins of the previous heat finishing. If they have no spare bike, then a team mates has to be used. 

Track grading: This can only take place after heats 4, 8 and 12.

Heat 15: Rider's are nominated for Heat 15 by the team manager when Heat 13 is completed. 

These are small things but then at least the bikes are on track at all times. 

[Trees]

8 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said:

I think the flow of the meetings is a major thing. There's far more of 'nothing going on' than actual racing'. 

Obviously there are the usual things like crashes that can stall a meeting but there are other means to quicken up the flow of racing. 

Getting rider's on track: always be a heat ahead, i.e. at the start of the meeting after parade etc the rider's for heat 1 & 2 come out. Heat 2 rider's sit on the centre ready. When Heat 1 is complete and those riders are on there way back to the pits, the rider's for heat 3 sit in the centre etc etc.

Time allowance: The 2 mins are on automatically when the last rider from the previous heat crosses the line. Like GP's, have to be ready to race when the 2 mins clock is 0.

2 rides on the trot: If a rider has 2 heat consecutive they must ride their spare bike and be ready in the 2 mins of the previous heat finishing. If they have no spare bike, then a team mates has to be used. 

Track grading: This can only take place after heats 4, 8 and 12.

Heat 15: Rider's are nominated for Heat 15 by the team manager when Heat 13 is completed. 

These are small things but then at least the bikes are on track at all times. 

Have meetings all over and done with in an hour, nah ...... I want to hear more interviews/interaction from the mic man in the pits etc so we know what's going on, build up of races from the mic man/mascot and the music .... The problem is we have an aging crowd who stand quiet (with exceptions) .... No wonder the atmosphere is flat often!

[Baldyman]

The daft thing is, some people won't go if it's over too quickly, they don't see it as value or an evening out. I've read it before, that some won't travel an hour to watch something that's over in an hour, even though they are getting exactly the same amount of races. 

[Bagpuss]

33 minutes ago, Trees said:

Have meetings all over and done with in an hour, nah ...... I want to hear more interviews/interaction from the mic man in the pits etc so we know what's going on, build up of races from the mic man/mascot and the music .... The problem is we have an aging crowd who stand quiet (with exceptions) .... No wonder the atmosphere is flat often!

Not an hour perhaps but ninety minutes is plenty long enough. An hour and three quarters absolute maximum which would be a half nine finish at Lynn. 

If there have to be longish gaps between any races then something needs to be going on to entertain people. 

[Trees]

On 11/15/2019 at 9:52 AM, Bagpuss said:

Not an hour perhaps but ninety minutes is plenty long enough. An hour and three quarters absolute maximum which would be a half nine finish at Lynn. 

If there have to be longish gaps between any races then something needs to be going on to entertain people. 

I'd say that is the usual these days ......

[tellboy]

On 11/15/2019 at 9:52 AM, Bagpuss said:

Not an hour perhaps but ninety minutes is plenty long enough. An hour and three quarters absolute maximum which would be a half nine finish at Lynn. 

If there have to be longish gaps between any races then something needs to be going on to entertain people. 

I agree re something possibly going on in between races.What did they do in the 80's,90's because meetings use to last the same length of time if not longer.Possibly because crowds were bigger then the atmosphere was better so people didn't really bother about the time then.But now with crowds smaller they have to do something to keep them happy.

It don't bother me but it does the many i suppose.I find the time to talk to what i call my speedway buddies who i only catch up with during the speedway season.Sometimes 90 minutes is far to quick for me.

[Bagpuss]

2 hours ago, Trees said:

I'd say that is the usual these days ......

Which bit Theresa? 

[walle]

 Hi guys , well as an ex swindon second half rider back in the 70 s we had a good crowd with  local lads having a go , some time s I was thrown in the deep end and yes came last but  I gave it a  go on second hand bike s that  were  de tuned to last longer and 1 tyre for the season yes 1 tyre !!  I was broke but still had a go . Briggo  ashby and  broad banks all gave me a hand and I had a ball . but it was a  local and family driven crowd that  would give us lads support .A  lot of wannabe riders like me would have done a lot  better  given the finances . I migrated to Perth in the 80 s and watched racing at Claremont WOW good support, fast and local lads mixing with the tour riders . I pitted for a few lads  and it was better sponsored, Along with  a mixed format . side cars ,midget cars and solo , and junior riders all mixed with good commentary and hamburgers Brilliant to Watch ..my answer to British speedway is to mix it up ,cheaper  bikes  for up and comers . and a good second half . also the pits to be open and available to watch up close .again they do this at the drag racing here too .Briggo used to come out with us after the meeting to practice many thanks Barry .Bill y Wall

 

 

[Trees]

23 hours ago, Bagpuss said:

Which bit Theresa? 

90 mins duration for meetings Baggy ....

[Bagpuss]

1 hour ago, Trees said:

90 mins duration for meetings Baggy ....

Sometimes but there have been occasions where meetings at Lynn have gone on past half nine and I just think that is too long. Can’t be helped if there is an injury but when it’s lots of grading and an unnecessary interval it won’t get people coming back. 

[Sidney the robin]

On 11/17/2019 at 9:57 AM, walle said:

 Hi guys , well as an ex swindon second half rider back in the 70 s we had a good crowd with  local lads having a go , some time s I was thrown in the deep end and yes came last but  I gave it a  go on second hand bike s that  were  de tuned to last longer and 1 tyre for the season yes 1 tyre !!  I was broke but still had a go . Briggo  ashby and  broad banks all gave me a hand and I had a ball . but it was a  local and family driven crowd that  would give us lads support .A  lot of wannabe riders like me would have done a lot  better  given the finances . I migrated to Perth in the 80 s and watched racing at Claremont WOW good support, fast and local lads mixing with the tour riders . I pitted for a few lads  and it was better sponsored, Along with  a mixed format . side cars ,midget cars and solo , and junior riders all mixed with good commentary and hamburgers Brilliant to Watch ..my answer to British speedway is to mix it up ,cheaper  bikes  for up and comers . and a good second half . also the pits to be open and available to watch up close .again they do this at the drag racing here too .Briggo used to come out with us after the meeting to practice many thanks Barry .Bill y Wall

 

 

I remember you riding Billy after the likes of Clark Facey, Mac Woolford ( ect) i can remember you riding against Bobo Valentine , Martin Hitch (ect i loved the second halves. Also  Swindon had a great track record of producing local young riders over the years great days.

[walle]

Hi , yes bo bo stayed with me a few times and Martin hitch was a good bloke too , I got on well with dave ashby , and most of us were in it for the ride .  I  had a bingle on track with Jim Woodford on second turn but we went away friends, my last bike was ex mike keen and Jim would mechanic for him .and help me too. I had 6 away meetings with swindon  and scored a few points at belle Vue and out gated a few top riders for a couple of laps . I won  2 world championships in the garage at home HA HA . only wish I had better equipment and a bit of cash to do a full season . still I enjoyed it and still have a few scars to show for it . .an old rider who lived in Oxford helped to fix our engines Gordon Mc Gregor . also  he helped a Doncaster rider Hec Haslinger who lives in Perth and we chat often . tai woofy  has a track that his father help start in Perth and I have watched over the years a lot of local lads go to the uk and do ok .I am amazed at the level of racing now and the equipment is top stuff . again I think cheaper bikes would help a lot of racing be good to watch with the up and young lads .  

[Trees]

Bump

[A ORLOV]

The not increasing of the team limit each year so that if riders can be afforded the league gets stronger

[g13webb]

The biggest single factor of why the fans have stopped going has to be VFM.  It this world of tight restraints, fans find it much harder to find the extravagant admission costs that the promotions are needing to make ends meet.   The equivalent of over a pound a race is excessive. When the majority of those are drawn out processional  affairs,  it doesn't take an Einstein to realise something is drastically wrong.     Our Stadiums are old, our tracks are poor, and not suited to the super fast bikes of today.  We are stuck in a rut from years gone bye, thinking the sport use to work,  and believe it will again...  

Comparing Speedway to other sports like Moto GP,   Superbike Racing,   Formula 1  Saloon car racing,    we must be the only sport that uses the said same bike for every occasion.   You wouldn't see   a MotoGP bike during club meetings,   or a Red Bull F1 car during a endurance race,   so why do we still use those expensive tuned bikes for our bread and butter league meetings that the crowds cant sustain.     Promoters could cut the cost in an instant  by introducing a standard, less powerful option  ( eg. 400cc),  that would be more conducive to our tracks and create closer racing.   We could bring back the second halves and/or  produce a 20 heat schedule.  With cheaper bikes, the admission could be adjusted to an affordable level when hopefully the old fans would feel it was worth giving it another go.

But then again, we could carry on as usual,  losing more fans,  doing nothing.....    

[Daniel Smith]

7 minutes ago, g13webb said:

The biggest single factor of why the fans have stopped going has to be VFM.  It this world of tight restraints, fans find it much harder to find the extravagant admission costs that the promotions are needing to make ends meet.   The equivalent of over a pound a race is excessive. When the majority of those are drawn out processional  affairs,  it doesn't take an Einstein to realise something is drastically wrong.     Our Stadiums are old, our tracks are poor, and not suited to the super fast bikes of today.  We are stuck in a rut from years gone bye, thinking the sport use to work,  and believe it will again...  

Comparing Speedway to other sports like Moto GP,   Superbike Racing,   Formula 1  Saloon car racing,    we must be the only sport that uses the said same bike for every occasion.   You wouldn't see   a MotoGP bike during club meetings,   or a Red Bull F1 car during a endurance race,   so why do we still use those expensive tuned bikes for our bread and butter league meetings that the crowds cant sustain.     Promoters could cut the cost in an instant  by introducing a standard, less powerful option  ( eg. 400cc),  that would be more conducive to our tracks and create closer racing.   We could bring back the second halves and/or  produce a 20 heat schedule.  With cheaper bikes, the admission could be adjusted to an affordable level when hopefully the old fans would feel it was worth giving it another go.

But then again, we could carry on as usual,  losing more fans,  doing nothing.....    

I'd go the other way with regards to engines. There's only so much grip, traction and speed you can get out of a bike. I'd ramp up the cc to 800. In one fowl swoop the need for engine tuners has gone. No advantage can possibly be gained in a tuned engine with that big a cc. 

[Baldyman]

I don't think it matters what's done or not done, speedway will never be a big popular sport again the way its known now. 

For it to stand even half a chance, it needs totally changing and re inventing.   Even then it would find it hard to get the younger generation in, it isn't a phone in their hands or a console online, they can't drink it, smoke it or sniff it, or swipe left or right at it. 

[Bald Bloke]

49 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said:

I'd go the other way with regards to engines. There's only so much grip, traction and speed you can get out of a bike. I'd ramp up the cc to 800. In one fowl swoop the need for engine tuners has gone. No advantage can possibly be gained in a tuned engine with that big a cc. 

Riders will tune anything to get an advantage. All the work is done in the cylinder head and camshaft. The modern top riders speedway bike puts out around 75-78 bhp at the crank @ silly revs, 13500+ rpm ish, which is silly revs for a single cylinder 4 stroke. Hence they need work after 30 miles. 800cc is huge for a single, and would weigh more, but in mild/ standard state of tune that might last 80 races or so ( 80 miles) might put out around 65 bhp.. Which is plenty really, but riders will always have work done to increase power for big tracks, and to change where the engine puts out it's power. Sealed engine is the only way to stop this I think.

The thing is, when  you make an engine that can go a long time before work, it's an engine that goes off the boil ( for competition use) after a while due to a loss of compression. While on the road 3 of 4 bhp would be hard to notice for most. On a speedway track, it's huge.

 

Edited November 24, 2019 by Bald Bloke

[sommelier]

5 hours ago, Bald Bloke said:

Riders will tune anything to get an advantage. All the work is done in the cylinder head and camshaft. The modern top riders speedway bike puts out around 75-78 bhp at the crank @ silly revs, 13500+ rpm ish, which is silly revs for a single cylinder 4 stroke. Hence they need work after 30 miles. 800cc is huge for a single, and would weigh more, but in mild/ standard state of tune that might last 80 races or so ( 80 miles) might put out around 65 bhp.. Which is plenty really, but riders will always have work done to increase power for big tracks, and to change where the engine puts out it's power. Sealed engine is the only way to stop this I think.

The thing is, when  you make an engine that can go a long time before work, it's an engine that goes off the boil ( for competition use) after a while due to a loss of compression. While on the road 3 of 4 bhp would be hard to notice for most. On a speedway track, it's huge.

 

What amasses me, is that all the top tuners have not come up with semi rubber mounting engine to frame. The BHP that must be lost through vibrations must be at least 5 BHP. it would only take a steel outer sleeve, ie through crankcase then rubber then a center steel sleeve for the engine bolt to pas through engine plate