If you want to know what’s wrong with British speedway

[g13webb]

11 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

I'd go the other way with regards to engines. There's only so much grip, traction and speed you can get out of a bike. I'd ramp up the cc to 800. In one fowl swoop the need for engine tuners has gone. No advantage can possibly be gained in a tuned engine with that big a cc. 

My thoughts were aimed at cheaper bikes that were more sustainable.  We cant have this situation where the bikes being used are costing the earth.    

[walle]

I remember this topic being discussed by Eric boocock who wanted standard engines to save on cost .I think he was looking at Honda . but it is a complete package as the frames wheels e t c are all getting expensive . without decent gear it is hard to race and be in control . the new age of entertainment with internet and mobiles has killed a lot of other hobbies too .local clubs are a great form of fun for the die hards , as for league racing the best is being done with whats available . there  is more overseas racing now , so the old British racing dominance has gone to some extent . sponsors for the second half of a meeting would be better and let the riders chase the money on the track with handicap positions to mix it up . 

[waytogo28]

On 11/24/2019 at 7:57 PM, g13webb said:

The biggest single factor of why the fans have stopped going has to be VFM.  It this world of tight restraints, fans find it much harder to find the extravagant admission costs that the promotions are needing to make ends meet.   The equivalent of over a pound a race is excessive. When the majority of those are drawn out processional  affairs,  it doesn't take an Einstein to realise something is drastically wrong.     Our Stadiums are old, our tracks are poor, and not suited to the super fast bikes of today.  We are stuck in a rut from years gone bye, thinking the sport use to work,  and believe it will again...  

VFM has been the cause of my dwindling ( but not yet extinguished ) enthusiasm for the sport that has been THE sport of my life. And the increase in the number of drawn out processional races does matter to me. Simpler . cheaper . longer lasting bikes that allow for competitive racing must be part of the way forward ( if there is to be a way forward in the UK ). The riders own skills on track will come to the fore once again.

[Bagpuss]

You are right but that has been talked about for over twenty years and nothing has happened. 

[iwright71]

I always worry when the incoming chairman of the BSPA states " I believe in the product " " We have a great product "  AKA Keith Chapman and now his successor Mr Godfrey . Unless someone realises that the Premiership is not a great product, Belle Vue and  now Swindon aside,and that's the reason people are not turning up to watch week in week out then the malaise and general decline will continue. Watch all BT live matches broadcast last year and its not great watching compared to other sports competing for the consumers pound ! 

[A ORLOV]

4 minutes ago, iwright71 said:

I always worry when the incoming chairman of the BSPA states " I believe in the product " " We have a great product "  AKA Keith Chapman and now his successor Mr Godfrey . Unless someone realises that the Premiership is not a great product, Belle Vue and  now Swindon aside,and that's the reason people are not turning up to watch week in week out then the malaise and general decline will continue. Watch all BT live matches broadcast last year and its not great watching compared to other sports competing for the consumers pound ! 

Agree about the tv meetings, I only watched a few as many of them were not worth the effort, the same with the GPs. 

[OveFundinFan]

Ooh, Orlov,  might agree British meetings on TV is not good, but I disagree with you re the GP’s.  The majority of the 10 GPs are very good, couple Okish, and a couple mediocre.

[A ORLOV]

1 hour ago, OveFundinFan said:

Ooh, Orlov,  might agree British meetings on TV is not good, but I disagree with you re the GP’s.  The majority of the 10 GPs are very good, couple Okish, and a couple mediocre.

The main lack of interest in the GPs was because there was no real chance of any Brit or a Swindon rider doing well after the first few rounds.  Jason picked up towards the end.  I tend to watch the GPs on utube so that if the meeting is not good I can just cancel it.    

[mikebv]

5 hours ago, iwright71 said:

I always worry when the incoming chairman of the BSPA states " I believe in the product " " We have a great product "  AKA Keith Chapman and now his successor Mr Godfrey . Unless someone realises that the Premiership is not a great product, Belle Vue and  now Swindon aside,and that's the reason people are not turning up to watch week in week out then the malaise and general decline will continue. Watch all BT live matches broadcast last year and its not great watching compared to other sports competing for the consumers pound ! 

I watch a lot of 'old league Speedway' on YouTube, mainly from the eighties, and a hell of a lot of it is pretty garbage to be honest. Even allowing for the one camera, independent, straight to video coverage of the time..

The main differences to today when it's garbage is that back then the crowds were bigger so the atmosphere was there, and riders were mainly part time and hadn't spent fortunes on machinery to take part, so didn't expect/need big money to compete..

Nowadays you get pretty mediocre racing,  interspersed with the odd great race..

Just the same as happened back then..

Definitely worth watching a few YouTube League meetings from the eighties and nineties if you have an hour to kill..

Pretty poor fair in the main and definitely not too dissimilar to what we get today at most tracks..

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by mikebv

[hyderd]

On 12/6/2019 at 3:45 AM, mikebv said:

I watch a lot of 'old league Speedway' on YouTube, mainly from the eighties, and a hell of a lot of it is pretty garbage to be honest. Even allowing for the one camera, independent, straight to video coverage of the time..

The main differences to today when it's garbage is that back then the crowds were bigger so the atmosphere was there, and riders were mainly part time and hadn't spent fortunes on machinery to take part, so didn't expect/need big money to compete..

Nowadays you get pretty mediocre racing,  interspersed with the odd great race..

Just the same as happened back then..

Definitely worth watching a few YouTube League meetings from the eighties and nineties if you have an hour to kill..

Pretty poor fair in the main and definitely not too dissimilar to what we get today at most tracks..

 

most sports are the same, take football, the most watched sport on TV, Keeper passes the ball to one of his defenders then the ball is passed across the field, then back, then back across again eventually arriving back at the keeper who passed it out in the first place. If and when a goal is scored that's what it's all about, so a 1-0 win gives seconds of excitement the rest is expectation and boredom. 

[foreverblue]

7 minutes ago, hyderd said:

most sports are the same, take football, the most watched sport on TV, Keeper passes the ball to one of his defenders then the ball is passed across the field, then back, then back across again eventually arriving back at the keeper who passed it out in the first place. If and when a goal is scored that's what it's all about, so a 1-0 win gives seconds of excitement the rest is expectation and boredom. 

You are watching the wrong matches!! 

[theblueboy]

3 hours ago, hyderd said:

most sports are the same, take football, the most watched sport on TV, Keeper passes the ball to one of his defenders then the ball is passed across the field, then back, then back across again eventually arriving back at the keeper who passed it out in the first place. If and when a goal is scored that's what it's all about, so a 1-0 win gives seconds of excitement the rest is expectation and boredom. 

I’m guessing this is MUTV? 

[DC2]

3 hours ago, hyderd said:

most sports are the same, take football, the most watched sport on TV, Keeper passes the ball to one of his defenders then the ball is passed across the field, then back, then back across again eventually arriving back at the keeper who passed it out in the first place. If and when a goal is scored that's what it's all about, so a 1-0 win gives seconds of excitement the rest is expectation and boredom. 

 

League speedway produces at least fifteen moments of excitement in the starts and maybe another six on track.

Most football matches provide fewer.

 

[waytogo28]

So, which UK stadium can you shoehorn 50 - 75,000 fans in for a match? Is it 6,000 at the NSS and they can't even fill that, or 2,500 at Glasgow where ditto. There is no punter demand for speedway matches on a regular basis above 1,000 to 1,500. And Ahem many below 1,000.

[tellboy]

On 12/6/2019 at 3:45 AM, mikebv said:

I watch a lot of 'old league Speedway' on YouTube, mainly from the eighties, and a hell of a lot of it is pretty garbage to be honest. Even allowing for the one camera, independent, straight to video coverage of the time..

The main differences to today when it's garbage is that back then the crowds were bigger so the atmosphere was there, and riders were mainly part time and hadn't spent fortunes on machinery to take part, so didn't expect/need big money to compete..

Nowadays you get pretty mediocre racing,  interspersed with the odd great race..

Just the same as happened back then..

Definitely worth watching a few YouTube League meetings from the eighties and nineties if you have an hour to kill..

Pretty poor fair in the main and definitely not too dissimilar to what we get today at most tracks..

 

I have put similar things on King's Lynn threads,mainly in response to people that keep harping on about "the good old days".I agree totally with you the racing was barely any different back then.It's really only things outside of speedway that has seen the gradual decline in speedway crowds.

[Grachan]

I actually think that if you get the track right, then racing today is better than it used to be.

Old shaped tracks don't seem to work so well with the modern bikes. Swindon is a good example of how reshaping and shortening a track can improve things. 

Belle Vue, as an example of a modern track, can provide better racing than I remember in the past. That race where Fricke was in  last place for much of the race then went round everyone on the final lap, for example. You never saw races like that in the 1970s.

 

[Bagpuss]

I’m sure speedway seemed better back in the day because the crowds were bigger and the atmosphere better. 

[Fromafar]

24 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

I’m sure speedway seemed better back in the day because the crowds were bigger and the atmosphere better. 

Possibly, but you have to ask why crowds were bigger surely.Maybe some thing to do with entertainment factor.!

[mikebv]

13 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

I’m sure speedway seemed better back in the day because the crowds were bigger and the atmosphere better. 

It is pretty much this from a starting point..

Many races at Hyde Rd when I started following the sport saw Ivan Mauger, and then Peter Collins, often 'miles in front' of opponents..

But the crowds were huge so all was good...

Cardiff delivers 'ok' racing, often close but not massively exciting..

The NSS delivers close, and often, very exciting racing..

Cardiff delivers massive crowds and fantastic atmosphere which means repeat visits are highly likely..

The NSS delivers around 1000-1400, with not too much atmosphere generated by a two thirds empty stadium, which will struggle to engage the less regular attendee to make it a 'must do' each week.

It isn't going to change anytime soon, (if at all ever), for me, so it's probably best to accept its the way it is and enjoy/tolerate (delete as applicable) what there is on offer..

Rider costs mean minimal chance of admission reduction which may stimulate interest, and a lack of mainstream media attention means no crowd attracting 'superstars' anymore which the wider non speedway regular sporting community could identify with and go along and watch when they came to their local tracks..

Collins, Mauger, and Olsen often gave the tracks they visited their biggest attendances of the Season..

Nicki P's 'cameo' for example will I am sure register many extra clicks at the turnstile in the early weeks of the season, (until the novelty wears off at least), and maybe that's what the sport over here needs to deliver those extra bums on seats?

ie Investing the TV money into a few 'names' but, unlike with the Sky money when they did the same with no long term benefit, they this time have a marketing and publicity plan on the back of it to generate longer term growth..

 

 

[DJWolves]

I certainly think the last thing supporters and promoters should do is accept the way it is. Speedway in the uk used to be the place where any rider that had any ambition needed to ride. Poland didn’t take over that mantle by just waving a magic wand. It was sustained investment in riders, stadia, and on tracks.

And they didn’t do it by controlling costs by imposing cost cutting points limits. They allowed those tracks that could afford it to build very strong teams. There was a real imbalance between the top and bottom teams in the league and people flocked to see the teams with the big stars. Then other tracks thought, we’ll have a part of that, and they invested in top riders also and they also saw their crowds grow. And so it continued to the point where all the top riders in the sport were riding there and getting well paid for doing so. In this country if tracks wanted to include Darcy Ward, Chris Holder and Bjarne Pedersen or Freddie Lindgren, Tai Woffinden and Jacob Thorsell then other tracks would say ‘we can’t compete with that’ and the strengths are dumbed down to fit the tracks that can only afford the cheapest teams.

This is a great spectator sport and we need to encourage entrepreneurs who will invest to get bums on seats and be encouraged to do so. And then get to the point where half a dozen tracks can get top riders, decent stadiums and tracks and 5,000 through the door 15 times a season. It sounds like a pipe dream just as it did in Poland not so many years ago.