Should the points limit be set to the highest team average from the previous season?

[PHILIPRISING]

2 hours ago, Method said:

The number of race points required to draw?

BUT racing doesn't take place on a piece of paper or calculator

[PHILIPRISING]

2 minutes ago, Call me wolfie said:

CVS was supporting this idea last Sunday so it's not just Swindon in favour of it. If Howarth chooses to stay with Sheffield, we could replace him with Freddie.

Freddie ... if you talking Lindgren he isn't even racing in Sweden next year. 

Edited October 24, 2019 by PHILIPRISING

[Call me wolfie]

1 minute ago, PHILIPRISING said:

Freddie ... if you talking Lindgren he isn't even gracing in Sweden next year. 

I'm well aware of that, and for his reasons in not riding in Sweden next year, which makes him more likely to be tempted back to the UK, in my opinion

[Falcon1983]

46.34 for Swindon to keep their same line up and others have the same limit, remember that swindon have 2 x 3 pointers in this side so Ipswich as an example could have this side

1. Iversen 7.54

2. Heeps 6.37

3. Grajczonek 7.29

4. King 6.83

5. Klindt 7.43

6. Allen 5.56

7. Covatti 5.27

I think this team would beat Swindon over two legs as the strength in depth is too much, so think the limit should stay at 42/42.5 

[Kickitov]

2 hours ago, Grachan said:

Why 45?

45 points is the score required to draw a meeting. A meeting consists of 90 points so the 14 riders in a meeting will score points totalling 90, divide between 2 teams equals 45.

A points limit under 45 weakens the league strength and a points limit above 45 increases the league strength.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

35 minutes ago, The Stag said:

45 points is the score required to draw a meeting. A meeting consists of 90 points so the 14 riders in a meeting will score points totalling 90, divide between 2 teams equals 45.

A points limit under 45 weakens the league strength and a points limit above 45 increases the league strength.

I every match ended in a draw every team would finish under 42 points total.....

[Kickitov]

3 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

I every match ended in a draw every team would finish under 42 points total.....

How?

[DC2]

6 minutes ago, The Stag said:

How?

 

Because averages are based on 4 rides per rider.

Even if Jason Doyle scored a 15 point max in every match he would average 12, not 15, because it’s worked out 15 divided by 5 rides multiplied by 4.

 

[arnieg]

3 minutes ago, The Stag said:

How?

Simple Maths

After 14 heats 42 points from 28 rides combined team average 1.5 x 4 x 7 = 42

The four riders in heat 15 will be top scorers so typically scoring 8 from 4.

In heat 15 their are only six points available but they would need to score 8 between them to maintain their averages. So the top two in each team would see their averages fall from 8.00 to 7.60, leaving a combined CMA of 41.20 for each team and a 45 all draw.

[Kickitov]

2 minutes ago, arnieg said:

Simple Maths

After 14 heats 42 points from 28 rides combined team average 1.5 x 4 x 7 = 42

The four riders in heat 15 will be top scorers so typically scoring 8 from 4.

In heat 15 their are only six points available but they would need to score 8 between them to maintain their averages. So the top two in each team would see their averages fall from 8.00 to 7.60, leaving a combined CMA of 41.20 for each team and a 45 all draw.

Of course. I stand corrected 

[mikebv]

7 hours ago, PHILIPRISING said:

AVERAGES are just numbers on a piece of paper. This isn't a computer game. Riders are human beings, averages go up and down. And if a team like Peterborough are 10 points adrift of the limit trying to sign one rider to fit that void isn't sensible, practical or even necessary. Their team building options increase not decrease and can enable them to work within a budget.

At the very least the notion of being able to keep a team from one season to another should be elementary.

And each season, after peeing about for donkeys using a slide rule to get seven riders as near to the limit as possible, all teams start 'level' yet, by the end of the season, one, if not more, are always miles adrift of the team that tops the table. .

Usually after tinkering around for weeks signing riders not much better than the ones they are replacing, from a small pool that fits the averages that they need to build to, rather than a wider pool of 'talent' that might make a difference..

Hence they don't move forwards and their seasons are effectively over by the end of June...

Market forces will dictate who they bring in if there were a wider amount of leeway as, lets be honest,  not many could afford a Bartek or a Tai to turn their seasons around, however maybe a club could pick up a '6 point man' to replace a '5 point man', which could make a difference without breaking the club...?

As we know, there a myriad of variables that delivers a riders average, so many of which are shall we say 'less than scientific' meaning this hardly justifies the influence they possess on the whole sport, therefore, let's spend less time trying to build a speedway team with averages as it's most important focal point, and more time building one using the actual personalities who have brought it both success and positive fan engagement...

Edited October 24, 2019 by mikebv

[Phil The Ace]

100% yes it should. Or scrap the limit totally and let clubs spend there own money how they want 

[SteveLyric2]

26 minutes ago, Phil The Ace said:

100% yes it should. Or scrap the limit totally and let clubs spend there own money how they want 

Quite strange this is being suggested now that Poole are out of the picture, having suggested the same or similar over several seasons!!!

[DC2]

29 minutes ago, Phil The Ace said:

100% yes it should. Or scrap the limit totally and let clubs spend there own money how they want 

 

That would be crap.

Can you imagine a sport that allows a few teams to have a massive spending advantage to buy the best players and thrash the poorer teams?

It’d never catch on.

Off to watch the football now.  

 

[SteveLyric2]

2 hours ago, Falcon1983 said:

46.34 for Swindon to keep their same line up and others have the same limit, remember that swindon have 2 x 3 pointers in this side so Ipswich as an example could have this side

1. Iversen 7.54

2. Heeps 6.37

3. Grajczonek 7.29

4. King 6.83

5. Klindt 7.43

6. Allen 5.56

7. Covatti 5.27

I think this team would beat Swindon over two legs as the strength in depth is too much, so think the limit should stay at 42/42.5 

I think you might have to consider at least 3 other rider options.

[PHILIPRISING]

3 hours ago, Call me wolfie said:

I'm well aware of that, and for his reasons in not riding in Sweden next year, which makes him more likely to be tempted back to the UK, in my opinion

HE says he wants to concentrate all his efforts on winning the World Championship and that means racing in just one league. 

[Falcon1983]

1 hour ago, Skidder1 said:

I think you might have to consider at least 3 other rider options.

Not really, it was just an example of what you could achieve if the limit is what Swindon finished on, you'll find some teams can have better overall strength 

 

So limit should stay at 42.5

[Beowulf]

1 hour ago, PHILIPRISING said:

HE says he wants to concentrate all his efforts on winning the World Championship and that means racing in just one league. 

Well if that is the case, then fair enough. I would love to have Freddie back in Wolves colours. But if that can't happen, then so be it. Even if he doesn't ride for Wolves but becomes World Champion I would be absolutely delighted. Woffy is a Wolves World Champion, but personally I have much more affinity with Freddie.

 

[Beowulf]

In relation to the the title of this thread. Every team that wins the title wants to, quite reasonably, retain their squad. Swindon are not the first, and definitely not the last, who will have to de-stengthen their squad for the following season. All very disappointing, but that's the way it is. As a Wolves fan, I have had to witness the de-strengthing on a few occasions. Unfortunately, you just have to suck it up. In my opinion no special exception should be be made for Swindon, or any other team.

[Bagpuss]

3 hours ago, Phil The Ace said:

100% yes it should. Or scrap the limit totally and let clubs spend there own money how they want 

Not for me, I think you have to try and make teams as even as possible on paper. But I certainly agree with using the champion’s team as the benchmark.