DC2 Posted October 24, 2019 Report Share Posted October 24, 2019 26 minutes ago, Beowulf said: In relation to the the title of this thread. Every team that wins the title wants to, quite reasonably, retain their squad. Swindon are not the first, and definitely not the last, who will have to de-stengthen their squad for the following season. All very disappointing, but that's the way it is. As a Wolves fan, I have had to witness the de-strengthing on a few occasions. Unfortunately, you just have to suck it up. In my opinion no special exception should be be made for Swindon, or any other team. Well, it wouldn’t be an exception if it were the new rule! That’s the point of the thread. If Terry Russell can point to three or four eight pointers who want to come over from the continent at a reasonable price he might have a case. Otherwise, it wouldn’t be fair. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve0 Posted October 24, 2019 Report Share Posted October 24, 2019 19 minutes ago, DC2 said: Well, it wouldn’t be an exception if it were the new rule! That’s the point of the thread. If Terry Russell can point to three or four eight pointers who want to come over from the continent at a reasonable price he might have a case. Otherwise, it wouldn’t be fair. What wouldn’t be fair? All teams built to the same team average. Some teams had improvers and some teams didn’t and the reward for improvement? Need to find another team! its stupid to build to the weakest team - as it always has been when Ipswich and Eastbourne were the worst culprits. Why have a points limit at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted October 24, 2019 Report Share Posted October 24, 2019 15 minutes ago, Steve0 said: What wouldn’t be fair? All teams built to the same team average. Some teams had improvers and some teams didn’t and the reward for improvement? Need to find another team! its stupid to build to the weakest team - as it always has been when Ipswich and Eastbourne were the worst culprits. Why have a points limit at all? No points limit would allow a club to buy the title - Man City - and pretty quickly put the lesser supported clubs out of business. Wouldn’t it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted October 24, 2019 Report Share Posted October 24, 2019 6 hours ago, Call me wolfie said: I'm well aware of that, and for his reasons in not riding in Sweden next year, which makes him more likely to be tempted back to the UK, in my opinion I wish that were the case too. I’d love to see Freddie back as well. Im surprised he is giving his own countries league a miss but it appears top riders are going the same way as the UK top flight as more and more are leaving the Swedish league. Sadly I think Fred is lost to the UK scene now he is an established world title contender. Such a shame as he always seemed to be a rider keen to ride as much as possible which would have given the UK league a chance of an appearance but a lot of the top boys now seem happy with the GPs and Poland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrhbig Posted October 24, 2019 Report Share Posted October 24, 2019 All that seems important is that all teams are equal at the start ,and that the solution is having "the correct averages", seems to me that the more you "dumb" down a product the less chance there is of it being successful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountyGround Posted October 24, 2019 Report Share Posted October 24, 2019 1 minute ago, hrhbig said: All that seems important is that all teams are equal at the start ,and that the solution is having "the correct averages", seems to me that the more you "dumb" down a product the less chance there is of it being successful 1 minute ago, hrhbig said: All that seems important is that all teams are equal at the start ,and that the solution is having "the correct averages", seems to me that the more you "dumb" down a product the less chance there is of it being successful You set the points limit to the "quality" of the league you want to present to your punters. The status quo is 42 it's that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beowulf Posted October 24, 2019 Report Share Posted October 24, 2019 1 hour ago, DC2 said: Well, it wouldn’t be an exception if it were the new rule! That’s the point of the thread. If Terry Russell can point to three or four eight pointers who want to come over from the continent at a reasonable price he might have a case. Otherwise, it wouldn’t be fair. But as we don't have a new rule, then allowing Swindon to keep the same team would be an exception. So why are they "special" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted October 24, 2019 Report Share Posted October 24, 2019 14 minutes ago, hrhbig said: All that seems important is that all teams are equal at the start ,and that the solution is having "the correct averages", seems to me that the more you "dumb" down a product the less chance there is of it being successful But in many seasons the limit is kept and good riders that have improved are penalised because of the average they have earnt, some of which then just ride abroad and the league is weakened. The team limit should either be increased or got rid of so that the best riders can ride here. Maybe the answer is for a starting point then any team can keep the same riders for say 3 or 5 years and it is up to other teams to get stronger rather than weaken the successful clubs. I want to see stronger riders here, preferably British ones so that we can then compete against the other speedway nations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted October 24, 2019 Report Share Posted October 24, 2019 32 minutes ago, Beowulf said: But as we don't have a new rule, then allowing Swindon to keep the same team would be an exception. So why are they "special" ? They’re not. As you’ve said, it’s been said for years, So is now the time to adopt it? Regardless of the fact that it’s Swindon. It should encourage loyalty from riders and fans and please the fans, which is quite the opposite of breaking up teams every year. Pleasing fans is what the sport needs! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted October 24, 2019 Report Share Posted October 24, 2019 31 minutes ago, A ORLOV said: But in many seasons the limit is kept and good riders that have improved are penalised because of the average they have earnt, some of which then just ride abroad and the league is weakened. The team limit should either be increased or got rid of so that the best riders can ride here. Maybe the answer is for a starting point then any team can keep the same riders for say 3 or 5 years and it is up to other teams to get stronger rather than weaken the successful clubs. I want to see stronger riders here, preferably British ones so that we can then compete against the other speedway nations. That’s a good point. Lower limits can put successful riders out of a job or cause them to ride somewhere they don’t want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted October 25, 2019 Report Share Posted October 25, 2019 10 hours ago, DC2 said: That would be crap. Can you imagine a sport that allows a few teams to have a massive spending advantage to buy the best players and thrash the poorer teams? It’d never catch on. Off to watch the football now. British football is a farce .... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve0 Posted October 25, 2019 Report Share Posted October 25, 2019 8 hours ago, DC2 said: No points limit would allow a club to buy the title - Man City - and pretty quickly put the lesser supported clubs out of business. Wouldn’t it? No team can afford to over stretch themselves but why restrict how a team can be built? We have one team going down and one coming up - no need to “spread” the riders around. Anyway - we will continue to have averages and the important thing is to get it right to encourage people to attend not to drive them away 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted October 25, 2019 Report Share Posted October 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Trees said: British football is a farce .... A farce maybe but we have a top division which performs in front of multiple full stadiums every week and sells its TV rights for billions! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted October 25, 2019 Report Share Posted October 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Steve0 said: No team can afford to over stretch themselves but why restrict how a team can be built? So that you have a fair competition. Otherwise it will become like Premier League football. Rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted October 25, 2019 Report Share Posted October 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Bagpuss said: A farce maybe but we have a top division which performs in front of multiple full stadiums every week and sells its TV rights for billions! That’s because it’s football. A popular game played by everyone everywhere and part of British culture. It’s not because it’s a brilliantly run minority sport supported by 1,000 fans a match. It’s pathetic that only a third of the clubs have a chance of winning it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted October 25, 2019 Report Share Posted October 25, 2019 If you mean the Premier League I think a third is being generous. I agree, it’s a bit of a circus which has too much money sloshing around but you can’t argue with the demand for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted October 25, 2019 Report Share Posted October 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, Bagpuss said: If you mean the Premier League I think a third is being generous. I agree, it’s a bit of a circus which has too much money sloshing around but you can’t argue with the demand for it. If you think the Premier League is successful and in demand, how about the UK Parliament? It’s the Mother of all Parliaments and admired across the democratic world. It’s so popular that there are 650 participants, men, women, LGBTs, dames and knights of the realm. They’re voted in by 30 million followers, have billion pound budgets and their every move is scrutinised everyday by the British press and they have far more coverage than Premier League football. Errrr ...... see how number of followers, money and press coverage still doesn’t polish a turd? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted October 25, 2019 Report Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) Although in general terms it should be good to retain riders from a winning team, one danger of setting the new points limit to that of the winners is that it might well deter clubs at the bottom of the league from carrying on in the Premiership if they believe they will not be competitive - not from any lack of riders but a lack of finance to afford the top ones. Its a careful line to tread in order not to lose any more Premiership numbers. Clubs who are unable to consistently perform well at home will lose fans no matter who is in their 1-7. If they get consistently hammered away that will also have an effect on home attendances and therefore income - unless they have some sort of financial benefactor. But those tend only to be a temporary solution. Edited October 25, 2019 by Skidder1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted October 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2019 Really, a simple bit of rider control would solve everything. Assuming Poole become Sheffield, Troy Batchelor goes to Peterborough to replace one of their reserves. David Bellego comes in at Swindon. That's it. A pretty even league, which is a lot simpler than working out team averages to the decimal point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbuck Posted October 25, 2019 Report Share Posted October 25, 2019 I can understand the logic of this suggestion up to a point - but saying that clubs should be allowed to strengthen to the limit of the previous season's highest averaged team would totally defeat the objective of having a points limit in my opinion - this objective being to both keep even team strengths and keep costs down. Every club building up to Swindon's 46.something would huges increase costs, so despite what clubs might flannel on their websites to try and keep their supporters happy, when it comes to the crunch, I doubt that many would vote in favour of a change that would do this. I can't say that I am in favour of a points limit (or rather the way it is continually chopped and changed) but until someone comes up with a better alternative, it has to stay. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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