Chadster Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 Essentially people seem to be arguing for the return of handicap racing, which was tried in the 60s and scrapped after 3 or 4 years. I never saw it so can't comment so perhaps some of our senior posters (where is Gustix when you need him?) might comment. From reading about it the impression I got was that the top guys didn't like it and if the likes of Briggs, Fundin etc were struggling with it then......Another difference today is that whilst the superstars aren't in the top league, the overall standard is much closer together and that would make passing more difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Connor Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 6 man heat 15s could be cool. Top scorers 10m handicap 4 others at manager's choice at tapes. In the event of riders scoring the same points highest seasons average counts. ? Bit half baked but could be interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 Four man heats for me, but with staggered starts, so the best riders have to overtake rather than just gate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedyOne Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 On 11/12/2019 at 10:15 AM, John Scrutton said: I thought that when the NL was formed it was to help bring on young riders. But is full of riders that were of that standard and started riding in he 1990"s I saw this stupid comment a few pages ago. Now, no one responded, and that's probably the best way to treat a posting of such amazing stupidity. But I thought I'd have a look into this claim "The NL is full of riders who started riding in the 1990s" So how full? How many of the 56 riders (8 teams 1-7s) were riding in the 90s? Most? A half? A quarter of them? 10%? Well..... The answer is...... Rob Ledwith. OK then..... How many of these riders are old enough to have been riding on 31 October 1999 (the last possible day of the 90s)? It's still just Rob Ledwith . In fact 25 riders from the class of 2019 weren't even born until the 2000s! Let's skip forward 10 years... How many were riding prior to 2010? Well it's just 10 (and 4 of those just scraped in in 2009). And, exactly one half of the 56 riders in the final 1-7 of 2019, didn't make their NL debut until 2017 or later. Seems the NL is doing a great job and is full of youngsters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 All these suggested changes to race formats are just as likely see more traditional punters leave and will do nothing to attract new ones whether on Eurosport, netflix or You-tube!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Skidder1 said: All these suggested changes to race formats are just as likely see more traditional punters leave and will do nothing to attract new ones whether on Eurosport, netflix or You-tube!!! Is there any reason though why a different format could not be tried for the KO Cup? I liked the three team tournament from ten years ago. Something a bit different is interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, DC2 said: Is there any reason though why a different format could not be tried for the KO Cup? I liked the three team tournament from ten years ago. Something a bit different is interesting. Yeah the Supporters Cup with fans nominating the later heats really worked well this season. 'Let's all vote for the oppositions weakest riders'!!? Brought hundreds of extra fans in that did- Not!! I've said before why keep promoting speedway as a 'family sport' ? We've been doing that for years and nothing positive has happened anywhere consistently. Let's promote the danger excitement feuds handbags - a bit of 'Boyce v Gollob' at Hackney. The tv audiences will.lap it up. Edited November 13, 2019 by Skidder1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Skidder1 said: Yeah the Supporters Cup with fans nominating the later heats really worked well this season. 'Let's all vote for the oppositions weakest riders'!!? Brought hundreds of extra fans in that did- Not!! Yes, that was daft. But it doesn’t mean that all innovation is. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodgy Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) Speedway is 4 riders from the tapes. Why give those that are inferior an advantage? I want to see the best rider win. Prepare a racing track, if you are not good enough, they need to get better. Stop devaluing the sport for the lesser - it’s killing it. Edited November 14, 2019 by Hodgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 48 minutes ago, Skidder1 said: Yeah the Supporters Cup with fans nominating the later heats really worked well this season. 'Let's all vote for the oppositions weakest riders'!!? Brought hundreds of extra fans in that did- Not!! I've said before why keep promoting speedway as a 'family sport' ? We've been doing that for years and nothing positive has happened anywhere consistently. Let's promote the danger excitement feuds handbags - a bit of 'Boyce v Gollob' at Hackney. The tv audiences will.lap it up. That was down to who thought it up and hopefully they do not let them come up with any more ideas, but part of the blame is the bspa for accepting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) On 12 November 2019 at 12:21 PM, iwright71 said: How many other clubs have the facility or the money to reshape their track ? probably none. Isn't it rumoured that each track in the Premiership is getting £50k a season? With a five year deal? Thats £250k 'guaranteed'.. You could do quite a bit of track reshaping with that I would think.. Instead, I fear it will be used to pay more in salaries to riders who won't in five years have progressed the entertainment level of the sport forward in any way that better tracks more conducive to passing would do... Edited November 14, 2019 by mikebv 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 Nobody should be criticised for trying new things, they might not work but we won’t know until they've been trialled. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tellboy Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 6 hours ago, mikebv said: Isn't it rumoured that each track in the Premiership is getting £50k a season? With a five year deal? Thats £250k 'guaranteed'.. You could do quite a bit of track reshaping with that I would think.. Instead, I fear it will be used to pay more in salaries to riders who won't in five years have progressed the entertainment level of the sport forward in any way that better tracks more conducive to passing would do... Surely they wouldn't be getting £50,000 a season.If they were i would have expected more teams to come up,and for Poole not to go down which looks likely. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 On 11/13/2019 at 10:56 AM, Falcon1983 said: 100% agree Try the 8 bike grid in the CUP matches 14 standard heats Heat 15 a team nominated their 4 riders, two lowest scorers start from the front row, two highest from the back 6 lap final race 7,6,5,4,3,2,1,0 points so you could get a 22 - 6 result in the final race swing Some cup matches some teams will smash others on aggregate but so be it Most four man races finish with the winner 'miles in front' of second and the rider in last 'miles behind' the rider in third. . Riders second and third are usually the two closest to each other... In short, most of the action is done and dusted by lap one end.. In an 8 man race the rider in fourth cannot tail off like so many do now knowing they can't score as they still will score points for their team, some even currently slow down to save engine wear and tear when no chance of a point which provides nothing towards the entertainment... Also the rider in fourth will now have possibly the two best riders from the opposition behind him trying to get passed to score seven points for their team for finishing fourth and fifth and maybe making their team have four of the first five finishes... A rider like Jason Doyle who wins most of his races will, in a four man race, take the lead and for the most part 'coast' around given his ability level. And for that he will score three points... Put him in an 8 man race and I am sure he will set his sights on beating the other four in front after he has seen off the other three like he usually does by the end of lap two or so and try and get the seven.. As mentioned treat an 8 man race as two separate ones for pay like they would do now, ie you beat the three you started alongside and get paid three points worth of money, and maybe run them in heat four, heat eight and twelve (with twelve being the last heat of the night which is nominated).. That would be nine 'normal races' and three 8 man races, meaning exactly the same amount of laps by the riders as a current 15 heat match. With maybe the nominated being even longer than a usual race? Speedway is down to its die hards now so if it was ever going to take a risk and trial something new then surely now is the time to do it? Maybe a Cup competiton could be set up to test the water and get fans' feedback. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 Eight riders seems dangerous to me and too much of a gimmick. Having said that, I’d happily be proven wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chadster Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 Different formats for the cup were used in the first 4 years of the British League, 16 heats in 1965-7 and 18 heats in 1968. I always thought it was a retrograde step to go to 13 heats for the cup. The longer format for the cup offered a welcome change from the run of the mill League meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, DC2 said: Eight riders seems dangerous to me and too much of a gimmick. Having said that, I’d happily be proven wrong. When I first attended the sport it was heavily pushed on billboards around the old Hyde Rd track, and around the country as a whole, as a sport that provided "thrills and spills" for your money. Now it provides a "family sport" for (pro rata linked to inflation) much more money than you paid then.. Whilst never wishing injury to any riders the sport needs to be more "thrills and spills" and less a "family sport" to get people in I would suggest.. As I've said before Ipswich did it and the only downside for me was it was too long so riders got very spread out over the 16 laps.. And in the US when I watched it 'lesser' riders than over here didn't crash any more times than in a four or a two man race as they became accustomed to having so many on a tiny track.. Lots of sports have incorporated what could have been construed as 'gimmicks' over the past 90 years or so of Speedway's existence, often based on the feedback of their fans through either research or simply the fact less started to attend so "something had to be done".. And many of these sports have benefited accordingly.. One thing we know however is that doing the 'same old, same old' each season, sadly, isn't cutting it.. Something 'radical' might put off a few 'die hards' (personally I doubt it as they by the very loyalty they show/prove they will attend 'anything put in front of them') and might just reignite the interest of the (literally) thousands who used to attend regularly (and not too long ago either), and also maybe will attract some interest from new fans.. One thing for certain though is that if we don't try something new then obviously we will never know.. Edited November 15, 2019 by mikebv 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 11 hours ago, mikebv said: Most four man races finish with the winner 'miles in front' of second and the rider in last 'miles behind' the rider in third. . Riders second and third are usually the two closest to each other... In short, most of the action is done and dusted by lap one end.. In an 8 man race the rider in fourth cannot tail off like so many do now knowing they can't score as they still will score points for their team, some even currently slow down to save engine wear and tear when no chance of a point which provides nothing towards the entertainment... Also the rider in fourth will now have possibly the two best riders from the opposition behind him trying to get passed to score seven points for their team for finishing fourth and fifth and maybe making their team have four of the first five finishes... A rider like Jason Doyle who wins most of his races will, in a four man race, take the lead and for the most part 'coast' around given his ability level. And for that he will score three points... Put him in an 8 man race and I am sure he will set his sights on beating the other four in front after he has seen off the other three like he usually does by the end of lap two or so and try and get the seven.. As mentioned treat an 8 man race as two separate ones for pay like they would do now, ie you beat the three you started alongside and get paid three points worth of money, and maybe run them in heat four, heat eight and twelve (with twelve being the last heat of the night which is nominated).. That would be nine 'normal races' and three 8 man races, meaning exactly the same amount of laps by the riders as a current 15 heat match. With maybe the nominated being even longer than a usual race? Speedway is down to its die hards now so if it was ever going to take a risk and trial something new then surely now is the time to do it? Maybe a Cup competiton could be set up to test the water and get fans' feedback. ? You cannot have gimmick races with our riders, whatabout if there is faller for instance, jeez!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 25 minutes ago, Trees said: You cannot have gimmick races with our riders, whatabout if there is faller for instance, jeez!! Moto X have 30 riders hitting the first bend, which narrows massively from a wide start and sometimes they crash... Superbikes and Moto GP have 20 or so riders aiming to get the pole position coming out of the start, and sometimes they crash.. Short track has many riders from a staggered start in a race and sometimes they crash. (On UK speedway tracks).. British Speedway with just four riders on track has sadly had fatalities and serious injuries.. It's the nature of Motorsport that there are crashes.. One rider by themselves can crash and suffer severe injury. Having seen 8 man races from two starting points it is very exciting with so much happening over four laps.. And as it doesn't look like any time soon that most tracks can deliver enough exciting racing from four riders to keep the punters coming back often enough, (be it down to track surfaces, or bike characteristics, rider standard etc), then we have to look at the possibility of increasing the excitement value by other means.. Given the 'tenuous' way Speedway is ran as a 'team sport' in the UK, I would suggest most who go regularly attend for 'the racing' rather than the team aspect.. Therefore, focus 1000% on improving the racing as an exciting spectacle which leaves you wanting more... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris116 Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 38 minutes ago, Trees said: You cannot have gimmick races with our riders, whatabout if there is faller for instance, jeez!! Hopefully the referee will hit the red light button quickly. I do think that we could get even more injuries and that many riders would avoid a league with races of more than four riders. I know that Ipswich had the 16 lapper and Arena Essex had their 12 lapper but both were once a year events. If we are going to have more than four riders then I would suggest six riders over five laps with only one or two such races in a meeting and the number 1 and 5 riders each having one race from a 10 or 15 yard gate. Something like 1, 2 & 3 in the first race and 4, 5 & 6 in the second race. Knowing how the handicap league racing in the 60's was hated by the riders I don't think today's riders would be willing to take part in such events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.