mikebv Posted November 26, 2020 Report Share Posted November 26, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: Honestly I am really surprised that there have not been any predictions on the team changes yet with Nick Skorja and Ondrej Smetana now not coming and not just on this thread but on all threads. The silence is surreal because usually folk are on here making outlandish predictions and bids for the prospective riders they would like to see in their team for the season to come. I appreciate that there will be changes on the team build points level which will probably reduce from the 2020 level of 41 to somewhere between the 35 to 39 mark for the Championship so this will release some riders as teams have to restructure to comply to the new build points level; and on rider availability due to actions being taken in Poland restricting riders on the other teams/leagues and countries they can ride for/in and of course the dreaded Brexit situation that is fast approaching; although that seems to have taken a bit of a back seat with this Covid carry on but it will also impact foreign riders casting a large shadow on what can and cannot be done. It will be difficult for promotions that's for sure... So what we were having in 2020 was... Newcastle Diamonds 1. Claus Vissing 8.43 2. Matthew Wethers 6.92 3. Nick Skorja 5.00 4. Ondrej Smetana 5.00 5. Max Clegg 4.92* 6. Connor Mountain 4.61* 7. James Wright 4.00 Team Total: 38.88 Remaining: 2.12 The other question now is; will we be able to retain Claus? What's his status; will having a home in the UK give him preferential access and the ability to work in the UK (if he indeed does have/or wants a second home here)? does he have dual nationality? can he run as Claus Vissing Racing Ltd as a business in the UK and use this as a route to ride without a Visa or will he need the dreaded Visa which is a further cost and who pays for the Visa the club or the rider; or is there another route that no one has thought of yet that gets him here without a Visa and allows him to ride in the UK? all questions that need answering not only by Newcastle but by any clubs who use a foreign/European rider. As it stands re. Brexit I don't think Commonwealth riders will be impacted as there are already processes in place to allow these guys to ride in the UK... How loyal do clubs have to be to riders contracted in 2020? Promotions/BSPL did hint that they would try and run with the same teams that were contracted in 2020 to the best of their ability but this seems to be a big aspiration to me which will now be almost impossible to achieve. Newcastle have lost 2 riders so far but who is out there to fill in these gaps. If the build points are set to a lower level does that reset everything and does this allow clubs to approach any rider? Newcastle were already 2 points under the build limit so this should/could protect the riders they have left from 2020 but as I see things at present there are definitely more questions than answers. The picture should become a little clearer once Brexit has been put to bed by the end of December but I imagine there will be some arguments and infighting to overcome within the BSPL over the Christmas and New Year periods... Who would be a promoter eh!!! Regards THJ Next season might just need a bit of flexibility when it comes to putting teams together, and maybe even some rider control if all teams are not competitive. One thing for sure is that co-operation of all will be vital and some sacrifices will need to be made for the greater good.. Unprecedented times re Covid 19, and then Brexit on top of that, must mean some 'less than perfect' decisions being made.. However, as this is Speedway, it will hardly be the first time such decision making has happened would it??? It may need virtually every rider doubling up or one big league, however, the priority of whatever they do needs to being getting enough rides for the riders to make it pay.. After the season just gone, the danger is a good few of the riders may call it quits and move onto other things (eg Ellis Perks).. Given Poland's restrictions (and I would suggest they are deadly serious given Doyle and Holder have dropped Sweden), added to the unknown of Brexit, and a whole season just missed, maybe a year of 'make do and mend' is on the cards with a vision to regroup and do something a bit more structured the year after? Next year, I would suggest is a 'free hit' for Promoters given the fans will be desperate to get back to the tracks, so maybe less riders per team, with mainly British lads of Premier to National League level in every team, could be affordable to Promoters whilst giving the lads plenty of racing to earn money? Those fans who will stay away because the points level is much lower than usual will be very few and far between I would think given the lack of racing over the past 8 months, so the Promoters should use this "goodwill" to set up next year to ensure all tracks ride and all can make it through the season... In any fashion required... Edited November 26, 2020 by mikebv 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzac Posted November 26, 2020 Report Share Posted November 26, 2020 I think the guessing on teams will start in the new year and I'm sure it will be minus virtually all European riders, and if a points limit is set early on. Big difference making a team on 35 compared to 38/9, so almost impossible to guess at the moment. Low limit normally means a greater discrepancy in ability throughout teams , so hope it's at the slightly higher end of the range really, with enough British and Commonwealth riders to go round. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted November 26, 2020 Report Share Posted November 26, 2020 2 hours ago, mikebv said: It may need virtually every rider doubling up or one big league, however, the priority of whatever they do needs to being getting enough rides for the riders to make it pay.. Hi Mike Think you have made some valid points and I agree with what you are saying... I still think there will be two leagues as there is the TV contract to honour however there will be an awful lot of doubling up... an awful lot... As a big advocate of 6 man teams I also would not be adverse to that however I don't think it will happen any time soon... however following the washout this year has been there has never been a better opportunity for the BSPL to reset things... Let's hope they grab the opportunity with both hands... Somehow I can't see it happening but you can always live in hope.. Regards THJ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted November 26, 2020 Report Share Posted November 26, 2020 1 hour ago, gazzac said: Big difference making a team on 35 compared to 38/9, so almost impossible to guess at the moment. Thing is gazzac it's never stopped some of the nuggets building teams in the past... Regards THJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted November 26, 2020 Report Share Posted November 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: however following the washout this year has been there has never been a better opportunity for the BSPL to reset things... Let's hope they grab the opportunity with both hands... Somehow I can't see it happening but you can always live in hope.. Regards THJ 'The Great Reset',,, it's a small window of opportunity for everyone to make for a better future, 'Build Back Better' an that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzac Posted November 26, 2020 Report Share Posted November 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: Thing is gazzac it's never stopped some of the nuggets building teams in the past... Regards THJ Is that forum or promoter nuggets? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted November 26, 2020 Report Share Posted November 26, 2020 1 hour ago, gazzac said: Is that forum or promoter nuggets? Deffo forum... lol... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 12 hours ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: Let's hope they grab the opportunity with both hands... Somehow I can't see it happening but you can always live in hope.. Regards THJ 12 hours ago, ruffdiamond said: 'The Great Reset',,, it's a small window of opportunity for everyone to make for a better future, 'Build Back Better' an that. On top all the other things mentioned John, are promoters going to be geared up for a cashless society?,,, There may have been cash deals that slipped under the VAT radar. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 1 hour ago, ruffdiamond said: On top all the other things mentioned John, are promoters going to be geared up for a cashless society?,,, There may have been cash deals that slipped under the VAT radar. I would say that the current promotion are professional enough and business savvy enough not to fall foul of the current U.K. tax system... unlike the previous Dummkopfs who ran the spot... Just saying like... Regards THJ 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.D Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 The other thing to take in account is that Europeon riders from January the first will require a work permit to race in the UK, no idea what criteria will be needed but looking at the way footballers could be treated it could be fairly high to gain one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, M.D said: The other thing to take in account is that European riders from January the first will require a work permit to race in the UK, no idea what criteria will be needed but looking at the way footballers could be treated it could be fairly high to gain one. Honestly If you read through the earlier posts I have been pointing this out for some months now and a great deal will depend on how the Brexit negotiations pan out and if we get a soft Brexit that keeps travel pretty free and relaxed across borders and allows for Citizens from the EU/UK to keep comparative rights they have now; like fast tracking through immigration; or if we end up with a hard Brexit and we go on World Trade Organisation Terms which will result in all borders tightening up between the EU and the UK and anyone travelling in and out of the UK will be standing in queues to get in and out of EU countries. A Finnish colleague who travelled from Spain to Germany with an Asian colleague walked through passport control unencumbered as an EU citizen the Asian colleague took just over 3 hours to clear passport control and immigration (both live in the UK but one travels on an Indian passport the other a Finnish one)!!! Brits will potentially end up in the "Non EU Citizen" line and have to go through immigration and passport control and of course the process will be reciprocated this end. (we cant have those Johnny Foreigners treating us Brits like TCN's) (can we?) There are ways (potentially) at the moment to get around this work permit situation and if you get bored pick any EU country and pretend that you are trying to comply with the new UK rules and go through the process on the gov.uk web site (doesn't cost anything) at https://www.gov.uk/transition this actually shows you the hoops EU citizens will have to jump through to live and work here. Potentially setting up as a Sole Trader business in the UK with a UK Business address would allow riders to ride without a Visa/work permit. Again being seen as a UK resident would negate the need of a work permit and that's about it. Oh and the deadline for applying is 30 June 2021 and you must have started living in the UK by 31 December 2020. Not much time left eh!!! If anyone has been cute (and I do know of one rider who has become a UK Sole Trader) they will avoid the need for a work permit (possibly). If not then from 1 January 2021 each club using a non UK citizen will need to have a sponsor licence to hire most workers from outside the UK and those personnel will need a Visa/Work permit to operate here. As you correctly infer from 1 January 2021, freedom of movement between the UK and EU will end and the UK will introduce an immigration system that will treat all applicants equally (allegedly), regardless of where they come from (aye righto). Any club who wants to recruit from outside the UK, (excluding Irish citizens), will need to apply for permission first to use this rider and will need to obtain a sponsors licence. Honestly this Brexit carry on is an absolute can of worms and here is another link to look at for what is required from an employers (or clubs) perspective https://www.gov.uk/guidance/recruiting-people-from-outside-the-uk-from-1-january-2021 and if a club does not already have a sponsor licence in place these clubs will need to consider the Home Office sponsor licence application fee which is £536 (for small companies/charitable sponsors with 50 employees or fewer and annual turnover of £10.2 million or less) (so basically a Speedway club) and the form takes about 30 mins to complete. The riders... well this is where the fun starts as every Tier 2 migrant must be assigned a valid Certificate of Sponsorship – commonly referred to as a ‘CoS’. Each certificate costs £199. This fee is the same whether the certificate is assigned for a 1 or 5 year period. Then there is the Home Office application fee and each applicant will be subject to a Home Office application fee which will be dependent on the type of visa they are applying for. The amount due will also be dependent on the length of the visa being applied for and whether the application is being made within the UK or from outside and these fees range from £464 - £1,408. If the application is refused, it is unlikely this fee will be refunded. Once you have cleared that hurdle there is an Immigration Health Surcharge (‘IHS’) which is a fee of £400 per applicant per year which is payable when the application is submitted. For example, if an applicant is applying for a three year visa, they will be required to pay an IHS fee of £1,200. Now riders do pay insurance because Speedway is a dangerous sport so I am not sure where this charge will sit however this fee is a surcharge levied by the Home Office for the migrant’s use of the National Health Service (‘NHS’) during their time in the UK. If refused, this fee should be refunded, although there can be a processing delay. Then there is the Immigration Skills Charge and this charge was introduced on 6 April 2017 and is used to address skills gaps in the UK workforce now could not having enough UK riders be classed as a "Skills Gap". This Charge is due each time a CoS (see above) is issued. The fee requested depends on the size and type of the sponsor and the length of employment stated on the CoS issued. If the company is classed as a small or charitable sponsor (as defined in regulation 2) the fee is £364 for any stated period of employment up to 12 months plus £182 for each subsequent 6 month period stated on the CoS. In all other cases, the fee is £1,000 for any stated period of employment up to 12 months plus £500 for each subsequent 6 month period stated on the CoS. If a club sponsored a migrant/rider for 3 years, for instance, the fee would be £1,092. Now most of the above I have pulled off the internet in a five minute search and from having to do this for one of our employees and it is only an indication of the fee summary which is for guidance only and is definitely "subject to change" the nearer we get to 1st Jan 2021 and Brexit. However it does give an indication of the "Slaver" that clubs will need to go through just to get a foreign rider into the UK. Now some clubs are already doing this and following all the processes and as stated I believe the process will either be tightened up further or slightly relaxed depending on what type of Brexit deal we get. Oh and of course the web site did state Home Office Fees are subject to change (which is usually a euphemism for "if we get lots of them we will put the price up). So from Jan 1 there will be an additional cost involved in employing riders from the EU that some clubs may find to much to bear... but as you rightly say work permits will be required to race in the UK and all you have to do is look at the commonwealth countries to see what type of criteria will be needed to race in the UK; it may work against (and stop) many of the young Scandinavians who used to come over to do their apprenticeship in this country which will be a shame. Aye all those little "Englanders" "two world wars and one world cup do da"; coming home to roost now eh... if you think we were hated in Europe before just wait until we get this Brexit malarkey out of the way... we will never get another point in Eurovision ever again... Regards THJ Edited November 27, 2020 by TotallyHonestJohn Missed out word 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crescent girl Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 8 hours ago, ruffdiamond said: On top all the other things mentioned John, are promoters going to be geared up for a cashless society?,,, There may have been cash deals that slipped under the VAT radar. The extra turnstile! Been a mainstay at SOME tracks since time began. That's a very good point, as people won't carry cash for programmes, burgers, drinks, as well as admission. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, crescent girl said: The extra turnstile! Been a mainstay at SOME tracks since time began. That's a very good point, as people won't carry cash for programmes, burgers, drinks, as well as admission. 'The extra turnstile',,, I have heard it mentioned. It could be well possible for businesses to run with a 'card only facility',,, a mean like, a can spent 49p on me card on the supermarket to avoid the massive queue to pay cash at the one till in lidl, lol. There's even now cards for kids to use, 'Go Henry' (dunno wherever they thought of that name),,, but using a card to pay for stuff might, mean that you don't leave a 'tip'. Many folk appreciate a little bit extra in the form of 'tips' and might not declare it. A might just be guessing, but am sure that these 'tips' might amount to quite a bit and maybe government's want a slice of that pie. Doing away with cash would make it easier to see what's coming and going, in the new digital world, (The Matrix),but it could also see a lot of businesses struggle. Edited November 27, 2020 by ruffdiamond 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrace Grumbler Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 As we now have two vacancies in next season's team, I'm disappointed that @Dandelion hasn't come up with any suggestions yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzac Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 23 hours ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: Thing is gazzac it's never stopped some of the nuggets building teams in the past... Regards THJ 25 minutes ago, Terrace Grumbler said: As we now have two vacancies in next season's team, I'm disappointed that @Dandelion hasn't come up with any suggestions yet. who'll be the first!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 33 minutes ago, gazzac said: who'll be the first!! Oooooòh am so tempted but when a guess right a get accused of spoiling the fun... So mums the word from THJ.. But I prefer the intelligent guess with a bit of reason behind it rather than pick 7 riders whose averages add up to 53 and wouldn't come to Newcastle as long as they had a hole in their posterior... you know the type... so here goes... 1. Freddie Lindgren 8.25 2. Ludvig Lindgren 4.20 3. Richie Worrall 8.11 4. Stevie Worrall 7.39 5. Kenneth Bjerre 6.25 6 Lasse Bjerre 4.05 7. James Wright 4.00 Total 42.25 with 0.25 to spare... The reason behind the team is we will only have half the travel cost cos they can all pair off and when James comes up he can drop Charlie off at Redcar on the way and save on travell there as well. Who needs @Dandelion it's Simples... Regards THJ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 12 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: Oooooòh am so tempted but when a guess right a get accused of spoiling the fun... So mums the word from THJ.. But I prefer the intelligent guess with a bit of reason behind it rather than pick 7 riders whose averages add up to 53 and wouldn't come to Newcastle as long as they had a hole in their posterior... you know the type... so here goes... 1. Freddie Lindgren 8.25 2. Ludvig Lindgren 4.20 3. Richie Worrall 8.11 4. Stevie Worrall 7.39 5. Kenneth Bjerre 6.25 6 Lasse Bjerre 4.05 7. James Wright 4.00 Total 42.25 with 0.25 to spare... The reason behind the team is we will only have half the travel cost cos they can all pair off and when James comes up he can drop Charlie off at Redcar on the way and save on travell there as well. Who needs @Dandelion it's Simples... Regards THJ Looks good, the non brits could maybe come over as fruit pickers, but I could see James and Charlie squabbling over who drives there and who drives back. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 (edited) 43 minutes ago, ruffdiamond said: Looks good, the non brits could maybe come over as fruit pickers, but I could see James and Charlie squabbling over who drives there and who drives back. A like the way ya thinking Ruff but av seen the YouTube of Freddie singing so we will get him on the club and pub circuit Ludde can go to Warbys and need the dough to make the baps... the two Wozzas are like the Trotters off "only fools and horses" so they will get by... the Bjerres can do Snow White owa the Christmas as two of the 7 and then become Grape Tredders making the Chateau Gallowgate from the grapes grown on the banks of the Tyne and if James is owt like their kid we can get him a job in Greggs putting the holes in the doughnuts... Jobs a good un as the saying goes... Regards THJ... Edited November 27, 2020 by TotallyHonestJohn Missed out word 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzac Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 1 hour ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: A like the way ya thinking Ruff but av seen the YouTube of Freddie singing so we will get him on the club and pub circuit Ludde can go to Warbys and need the dough to make the baps... the two Wozzas are like the Trotters off "only fools and horses" so they will get by... the Bjerres can do Snow White owa the Christmas as two of the 7 and then become Grape Tredders making the Chateau Gallowgate from the grapes grown on the banks of the Tyne and if James is owt like their kid we can get him a job in Greggs putting the holes in the doughnuts... Jobs a good un as the saying goes... Regards THJ... Is anyone else having trouble with Google translate, doesn't seem to be working for me at the moment.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 38 minutes ago, gazzac said: Is anyone else having trouble with Google translate, doesn't seem to be working for me at the moment.... If ya say the words in ya best Cheryl Cole accent they will start to make sense to ya... bonny lad... Regards THJ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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