DC2 Posted November 16, 2019 Report Share Posted November 16, 2019 1 hour ago, NeilWatson said: I expect to see one league table with all twelve Clubs - two mini-leagues would only work if the qualifying fixtures were contained within that Group. Actually it just occurred to me that all of the northern teams could beat all of the southern ones but some southern ones could finish in the top six by beating their southern counterparts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted November 16, 2019 Report Share Posted November 16, 2019 1 hour ago, DC2 said: Actually it just occurred to me that all of the northern teams could beat all of the southern ones but some southern ones could finish in the top six by beating their southern counterparts. Steady ,just an anomaly ,nothing new Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enotian Posted November 16, 2019 Report Share Posted November 16, 2019 1 hour ago, DC2 said: Actually it just occurred to me that all of the northern teams could beat all of the southern ones but some southern ones could finish in the top six by beating their southern counterparts. That's right. So it should be two 'conferences' with both the conference champions straight to the semi's and hopefully 2nd in the North plays 3rd in the South etc in the quarters. Meaning that if the top three teams in the Championship are in one 'conference' they can all make the semi finals. This regional split should have been implemented ages ago. 16 home league matches is just about right and hopefully the cut off will be end of August. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevePark Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 10 hours ago, enotian said: That's right. So it should be two 'conferences' with both the conference champions straight to the semi's and hopefully 2nd in the North plays 3rd in the South etc in the quarters. Meaning that if the top three teams in the Championship are in one 'conference' they can all make the semi finals. This regional split should have been implemented ages ago. 16 home league matches is just about right and hopefully the cut off will be end of August. So teams in the North wouldn't meet teams in the South (in the league) and have home and away three times (15 home and 15 away matches)? Then fans would complain that they'd only seen five different teams in the league!! I reckon they've (just about) got it right the way they've done it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enotian Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 17 minutes ago, StevePark said: So teams in the North wouldn't meet teams in the South (in the league) and have home and away three times (15 home and 15 away matches)? Then fans would complain that they'd only seen five different teams in the league!! I reckon they've (just about) got it right the way they've done it. No. Exactly not that. Fixtures as have been announced. 10 home against your five conference rivals and (i.e. twice each) plus 6 home against the teams from the other conference (i.e. once each) making 16 fixtures. My point was that there shouldn't be one league table as the mix of fixtures could mean that the total points could be skewed if one conference is weaker than the other. So there should only ever be two conference tables with the top three in each progressing. Not the top six in a combined league progressing. This is perhaps a subtle concept but it's the only way of ensuring that the league standings are not skewed. i.e. everyone in the same conference has rode against the same opposition the same amount of times. It has the added benefit of their being two conference champions and also makes the play off's a little more distinct from the league. Should have done it years ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) Quick question: When are the fixtures normally announced? Can't really remember... Thanks Edit: I don't just mean for Newcastle... I mean for everyone Edited November 17, 2019 by Dandelion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 21 minutes ago, Dandelion said: Quick question: When are the fixtures normally announced? Can't really remember... Thanks Edit: I don't just mean for Newcastle... I mean for everyone Isn't there a draft fixture list sent to all clubs in December so that they can check and re-check rider availability, clashes with international and foreign league meetings (not withstanding any TV clashes with Euro 2020 in June!). The BSPA then have a meeting in early January to approve the list with any changes so it should be made available to the public by February 1st. (However with a new chair and board of directors things may be different for 2020?) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 24 minutes ago, enotian said: My point was that there shouldn't be one league table as the mix of fixtures could mean that the total points could be skewed if one conference is weaker than the other. So there should only ever be two conference tables with the top three in each progressing. Not the top six in a combined league progressing. That makes the problem worse. If all of the northern teams best all of the southern teams, home and away, you’d still have three southern teams in the play offs. At least with one league table there would be a chance for four or five northern teams to make the playoffs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Skidder1 said: Isn't there a draft fixture list sent to all clubs in December so that they can check and re-check rider availability, clashes with international and foreign league meetings (not withstanding any TV clashes with Euro 2020 in June!). The BSPA then have a meeting in early January to approve the list with any changes so it should be made available to the public by February 1st. (However with a new chair and board of directors things may be different for 2020?) Either way... It's a while away and not within the next few weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 14 hours ago, NeilWatson said: The proposed regionalisation is different to the previous incarnation in 2014 when " Teams will meet all other Teams in a League table on 2 occasions, 1 at home and 1 away and by ballot additional Teams to make a total of 14 home and 14 away fixtures. ". The proposal for 2020 is " Clubs race opponents from their own section twice at home and twice away, and opponents from the other section once at home and once away. " That removes the lottery element and gives each Club 16 home league fixtures; meeting the five same Group Clubs twice, and the six other Group Clubs once. Sorry but you have the 2014 version completly wrong their was definitelty no lottery element and if that was your perception of the proposal maybe that's why it didn't go through... but never mind we now have regionalisatation in the form of the new 2020 format lets see how it goes and whether the fans like it or not... Regards THJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enotian Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 30 minutes ago, DC2 said: That makes the problem worse. If all of the northern teams best all of the southern teams, home and away, you’d still have three southern teams in the play offs. At least with one league table there would be a chance for four or five northern teams to make the playoffs. No it doesn't. You've pointed out that if there's one league and all the teams in one region are poorer than the teams in the other, then by virtue of having more fixtures against poorer teams, would finish higher up the combined table despite having always been beaten by teams in the other conference. In your example by virtue of the Northern teams being of a higher standard the worst two or three wouldn't be able to make the top six because they have 20 harder matches (i.e. against northern teams) than the best teams in the south who only have 12 harder matches. That inequality is exactly why there has to be two separate 'conferences' (and unfortunately for Newcastle/Plymouth why there doesn't really need to be an even number of teams). Importantly, as I pointed out in my original response, the quarter finals need to be 2nd north vs 3rd south and 2nd south vs 3rd north. That means if the northern teams are all better than their southern counterparts then three of them will make the semi finals. Not perfect but it's sport it's not supposed to be perfect. It's all theoretical anyway so don't even get started on the averages after year one!! Where a six pointer in one conference could be a nine pointer in the other..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 2 hours ago, StevePark said: So teams in the North wouldn't meet teams in the South (in the league) and have home and away three times (15 home and 15 away matches)? Then fans would complain that they'd only seen five different teams in the league!! I reckon they've (just about) got it right the way they've done it. I agree(just about), although I think 'enotian' does have a valid point/s. I don't think it right to guarantee 3 teams from each section of qualification. However if a team decides not to run, might it upset the balance of teams per section which will lead to further problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, DC2 said: That makes the problem worse. If all of the northern teams best all of the southern teams, home and away, you’d still have three southern teams in the play offs. At least with one league table there would be a chance for four or five northern teams to make the playoffs. Or even 4 or 5 southern teams doing it. They shouldn't mess around with the fundamental rules of a league tho Would it have not been possible to give all teams 2 home and 2 away fixtures (22 meetings) and scrap the CS ? and BTW, a noticed you didn't say '6 northern teams',,, do you know something and not wanting to say? Edited November 17, 2019 by ruffdiamond Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justgotmecpc Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Dandelion said: Quick question: When are the fixtures normally announced? Can't really remember... Thanks Edit: I don't just mean for Newcastle... I mean for everyone Let's hope they include Newcastle 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2 Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 20 minutes ago, enotian said: No it doesn't. You've pointed out that if there's one league and all the teams in one region are poorer than the teams in the other, then by virtue of having more fixtures against poorer teams, would finish higher up the combined table despite having always been beaten by teams in the other conference. That inequality is exactly why there has to be two separate 'conferences' (and unfortunately for Newcastle/Plymouth why there doesn't really need to be an even number of teams). I appear to have misunderstood you. I am using the current proposed fixtures, and in that case one league table is better than two conference tables. I assume you are saying that it would be better if there were two separate conferences with no meetings with a team in the other conference? Even that would be no better as the teams in one conference could all be better than those in the other. The only fair way is for the teams to be in one league and ride against each other the same number of times. Fairness has been sacrificed for less travelling/more “derbies”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Dandelion said: Quick question: When are the fixtures normally announced? Can't really remember... Thanks Edit: I don't just mean for Newcastle... I mean for everyone They might want to wait until they know who'll be taking part first. A suppose they could do a quick reccy and if someone does drop out, they could give them to someone else who might want to take part 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilWatson Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 hour ago, TotallyHonestJohn said: Sorry but you have the 2014 version completly wrong their was definitelty no lottery element and if that was your perception of the proposal maybe that's why it didn't go through... but never mind we now have regionalisatation in the form of the new 2020 format lets see how it goes and whether the fans like it or not... Regards THJ My quotes were direct from the BSPA website. If you suggest the allocation of the additional fixtures wasn’t wholly random I wouldn’t disagree - Peterborough went to Plymouth as one of our extra fixtures ISTR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyHonestJohn Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, NeilWatson said: My quotes were direct from the BSPA website. If you suggest the allocation of the additional fixtures wasn’t wholly random I wouldn’t disagree - Peterborough went to Plymouth as one of our extra fixtures ISTR. As the person who created, developed and proposed the 2014 regional format and presented the proposal to the BSPA along with Daryl Illingworth including the 2 point reserve and the 6 man team format your recollection is a tad off... Everything we proposed back in 2014 is being drip fed through in various watered down formats... as someone said earlier the changes in the sport happen at a painfully slow rate... If they had bit the bullet in 2014 and run with the whole proposal Newcastle may not be in this predicament now and Worky may still be here... The whole proposal was to try and deliver financial savings to clubs first and foremost and still offer competitive racing and a competitive structure that kept the interest going for the fans as long as possible into the season The Peterborough promotion were one of the biggest detractors and the promoter even stated at the Kings Lynn trialt that he was going to "find it hard to fiddle".... great role model eh... But never mind it's all water under the bridge and I honestly hope that the new format works and more importantly the fans like it... Regards THJ Just had a PM off Neil and we are talking at cross purposes here and it looks like I picked up the wrong end of his thread... but we are still singing from the same hymn book fortunately... lol... my bad... Edited November 17, 2019 by TotallyHonestJohn Edited for accuracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) Newcastle need to move away from Brough Park, why pay someone so much rent then take all food/alcohol profits? The rent they pay now could pay for land alone, food and alcohol could all be extra income. Other clubs have done it and are surviving Edited November 17, 2019 by Confused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinBSN Posted November 17, 2019 Report Share Posted November 17, 2019 Announced at Redcar last night that it would be two separate leagues of North and South with top 3 from each qualifying. Champions of each would go straight to play off semis and the rest battle it out amongst themselves 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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