Newcastle 2020

[Tsunami]

12 hours ago, MrP said:

Have to say the reason the Supporters Club ended wasn't because of you leaving Dave. Julie,Mala,Janet Ken Davies and myself continued for a good while longer. The main reason was my I'll Health at the time and neither Julie or I could commit as we were. We still managed to do a few month more but the straw that broke the camel's back was the final Social event we put on which was a Christmas party. Despite my best efforts to sell tickets like previous events a lot of people said they would pay on the night. I ordered the buffet but out of over 120 people who reserved tickets/played for tickets there were less than 70 in attendance. I put over £150 of my personal money in to pay for the buffet as we didnt have enough in club funds. I lost this money. That was when enough was enough for Julie and I. We raised a lot of money but could have raised so much more. We lost £600 in deposits for 2 cancelled events. The second family fun day and the second river cruise. Having been involved in fundraising for over 30 years you'll remember me saying on many occasions how frustrating I was finding things and you'll no doubt remember you and i locked horns several times over how we both wanted things done. 

Yes, a decent summing up Jim. We all worked well and hard together to give the club some support when times needed it, especially the air fence. It's just sad that it has ended the way it has. As Malla has said  there was reluctance to take it on, and I think Rob might also find it hard to get anybody when he was probably hoping that there would be people to take it over. Rachel has done a fantastic job since and obviously I think she will be involve again, when Rob gets things sorted out. Here's hoping.

NB Apologies to Ken Davies for forgetting to include him in the list of people who were active within the supporters club. He was a late addition to the original group, but he has been a tireless worker since, always being there when the club needed someone, and identifying and booking the South Gosforth Social Club for the most recent events.  

[soupy]

45 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

Who was the only 14st  jockey to ride a Derby Winner ?

Lester Piggotts cell mate lol

[Tsunami]

1 hour ago, Aceslider said:

Very sad to hear about the apparent demise of Newspeed 2003 Ltd and particularly if , as alleged, there are unpaid sums due to riders. That doesn't sound like the Diamonds promotion who I always believed had a reputation for paying riders on time.

What I find concerning is the question over who does the bond held by SCB belong to? If it belongs to Newspeed 2003 Ltd, then presumably it will be available to pay off creditors? Which leads to the question, will Rob's new company have to make a formal application to SCB and stump up some more money for a new bond assuming the application is accepted?

I'm surprised that Rob did not start with a new company and simply purchase the assets from Newspeed 2003 Ltd that he needed to avoid any skeletons in the cupboard appearing. Maybe there was a good reason for that, and perhaps it was related to the SCB bond.

Personally I don't believe the former directors should have anything to worry about unless someone proves that they have withdrawn funds/value for their own personal benefit without accounting for tax and NI.To the best of my knowledge these matters are normally dealt with under civil rules rather than criminal, hence any talk of jail sentences is really a total nonsense!

That would be my understanding of the situation as well.

[Parsy29]

Its all a very sad state of affairs and one I really don't want to get involved in for obvious reasons.

Im still a Newcastle fan though and wish Rob the very best of luck. With the lease on the stadium only for next season and covid looking like it could well last well in to next year I do worry that for all the money and enthusism that Rob has shown it could all be in vain.

Getting a new track in present times has proved nearly impossible for most as any houses within about a 15 mile radius will have someone ready to complain and get the planning stopped.

Good luck to everyone involved in the future of Newcastle Speedway. 

[Fromafar]

44 minutes ago, soupy said:

Lester Piggotts cell mate lol

[HGould]

3 hours ago, Aceslider said:

Very sad to hear about the apparent demise of Newspeed 2003 Ltd and particularly if , as alleged, there are unpaid sums due to riders. That doesn't sound like the Diamonds promotion who I always believed had a reputation for paying riders on time.

What I find concerning is the question over who does the bond held by SCB belong to? If it belongs to Newspeed 2003 Ltd, then presumably it will be available to pay off creditors? Which leads to the question, will Rob's new company have to make a formal application to SCB and stump up some more money for a new bond assuming the application is accepted?

I'm surprised that Rob did not start with a new company and simply purchase the assets from Newspeed 2003 Ltd that he needed to avoid any skeletons in the cupboard appearing. Maybe there was a good reason for that, and perhaps it was related to the SCB bond.

Personally I don't believe the former directors should have anything to worry about unless someone proves that they have withdrawn funds/value for their own personal benefit without accounting for tax and NI.To the best of my knowledge these matters are normally dealt with under civil rules rather than criminal, hence any talk of jail sentences is really a total nonsense!

Hard as an outsider to make sense of what's going on and gone on and Newcastle is a track I've always liked to visit mainly due to friendly fans and good banter.

I wish everyone well but one question is this.

On basis that those who ran last 3 tracks to liquidate (Rye House / Workington and Lakeside) losing their Promoters Licences, won't same fate befall Rob Grant.??

It would seem unfair if so as he has literally never promoted a Meeting due to Covid, but it does make Acesliders questions the more important.

Hopefully Newcastle will be at tapes in 2021 and for many years after that.

[Argos]

3 hours ago, Aceslider said:

Very sad to hear about the apparent demise of Newspeed 2003 Ltd and particularly if , as alleged, there are unpaid sums due to riders. That doesn't sound like the Diamonds promotion who I always believed had a reputation for paying riders on time.

What I find concerning is the question over who does the bond held by SCB belong to? If it belongs to Newspeed 2003 Ltd, then presumably it will be available to pay off creditors? Which leads to the question, will Rob's new company have to make a formal application to SCB and stump up some more money for a new bond assuming the application is accepted?

I'm surprised that Rob did not start with a new company and simply purchase the assets from Newspeed 2003 Ltd that he needed to avoid any skeletons in the cupboard appearing. Maybe there was a good reason for that, and perhaps it was related to the SCB bond.

Personally I don't believe the former directors should have anything to worry about unless someone proves that they have withdrawn funds/value for their own personal benefit without accounting for tax and NI.To the best of my knowledge these matters are normally dealt with under civil rules rather than criminal, hence any talk of jail sentences is really a total nonsense!

Are you serious do you really think you would not receive a Prison sentence for Income Tax evasion

[crescent girl]

I believe the BSPA bond, if surrendered, would be used to pay off the speedway-specific debts (riders, BSPA/SCB fees, maybe insurance premiums) ahead of any claims from outside the sport.   But be assured, the BSPA will do all in their power to keep speedway at Brough, and to help Rob Grant get his show on the road. 

[NSSG]

Just to put to rest some of the questions being asked right now.

In regards to the question of the forming of a new company when Rob took over from the previous promotion. As we all know the takeover happened in the twelfth hour, and it was looking highly likely that maybe our club could not be saved. Bearing this in mind, the BSPA had ruled a strict cut off date of a successful take over being sorted, if this was not met than a takeover would not have been allowed.

Back when the takeover was just about to be completed, a couple of people had cottoned on to the impending news through the Companies House website, mainly noticing that a new company had been formed, namely NEWCASTLE DIAMONDS LTD, with Rob being sole director of this company.

Additionally, when Rob took control of the diamonds, NEWSPEED2003 were on the last year of a 3 year lease between the speedway and the stadium, so because of this Rob had to once again run under the current company name and was not able to trade under the new limited company he had formed at the time of the take over.

In regard to subject that has arisen about the bonds. Rob is currently dealing with the liquidators aswell the BSPL to come to an arrangement where it is looking potentially possible that Rob will have to financially secure all appropriate monies within the governing body.

Edited October 28, 2020 by NSSG
Missed a word out of a sentence

[Aceslider]

57 minutes ago, Argos said:

Are you serious do you really think you would not receive a Prison sentence for Income Tax evasion

Yes I’m being absolutely serious!

HMRC in cases of corporate failure will more often than not work to their own policy of following Code of Practice 9. As I stated in my original post, this is a civil procedure and any unpaid tax liabilities will fall within civil rules determined by the Taxes Acts. They do not prescribe for custodial sentences!

Previous posters referred to prison sentences for several sports related people which actually arose through criminal prosecution in totally different circumstances.

 

[TotallyHonestJohn]

8 hours ago, Argos said:

There is 2 things that stand out about the current situation at Newcastle, 1.Grant never did his Du Diligence before he purchased the club, big mistake. 2.It really is a massive worry time for the previous Directors of the Club, If I was one, every time there was a knock on my Door my heart would miss a beat, Having heard the amount involved there really is a distinct possibility of a Jail sentence for them. 

Firstly on the Due Diligence; Rob Grant (RG) wasn't buying a multi national company and a cursory check on companies house shows you what the turn over was and the declared profit (and loss)… the business has always stood alone and traded since 2003 and before that to be fair... furthermore RG was dealing with someone who came with the title of Mr Newcastle Speedway and a former trusted member of the BSPA holding many and varied official positions within the organisation; he also knew him from old as a former rider of the club... so when he was told there were no debts and everyone and everything had been paid up to date why shouldn't he believe him? After all the guy was going to stop on as the Team Manager so why would RG do any further digging other than check the books and consult with his and the clubs accountant to ascertain the state of the finances. (More on this below) If something has been hid and missed by two accountants has their been a deliberate action to hide things or was it just gross incompetence... Personally I hope it was the latter because if this was a wilful action its about as low as you can get... I was in the queue to buy this enterprise and boy am I glad RG got in before me and that is for totally selfish reasons because I think I would have been the one who ended up in gaol...

On your second point I couldn't agree more however one previous director doesn't think he will get a knock on the door because he has passed the buck and the Poo Stick on to RG... WOW is he in for a big surprise...

7 hours ago, Aceslider said:

Very sad to hear about the apparent demise of Newspeed 2003 Ltd and particularly if , as alleged, there are unpaid sums due to riders. That doesn't sound like the Diamonds promotion who I always believed had a reputation for paying riders on time.

What I find concerning is the question over who does the bond held by SCB belong to? If it belongs to Newspeed 2003 Ltd, then presumably it will be available to pay off creditors? Which leads to the question, will Rob's new company have to make a formal application to SCB and stump up some more money for a new bond assuming the application is accepted?

I'm surprised that Rob did not start with a new company and simply purchase the assets from Newspeed 2003 Ltd that he needed to avoid any skeletons in the cupboard appearing. Maybe there was a good reason for that, and perhaps it was related to the SCB bond.

Personally I don't believe the former directors should have anything to worry about unless someone proves that they have withdrawn funds/value for their own personal benefit without accounting for tax and NI.To the best of my knowledge these matters are normally dealt with under civil rules rather than criminal, hence any talk of jail sentences is really a total nonsense!

RG paid up all monies owed to riders and cleared the debts (that had been allegedly paid up) however having dealings with several Newcastle Riders over the years; the last few years it has become rather fractious between riders and the promotion over non payment of monies owed...

The bond is safe as there are no speedway creditors...

He was advised by the BSPA not to start off with a new company because he would lose the clubs accumulated rights 1st priority on Sunday meetings and have to wait the three year period before he got a vote at AGM's etc also as NSSG advises NewSpeed 2003 were the holders of the lease on the stadium and it would cause issues to swap it over (apparently) also RG took a great deal of guidance from the BSPA?

The former Directors should be Pooing in their Pants as I don't think these are Tax and NI issues I reckon its the VAT man who is knocking on the door (just guessing at this moment and time mind but lets see) 

3 hours ago, HGould said:

Hard as an outsider to make sense of what's going on and gone on and Newcastle is a track I've always liked to visit mainly due to friendly fans and good banter.

I wish everyone well but one question is this.

On basis that those who ran last 3 tracks to liquidate (Rye House / Workington and Lakeside) losing their Promoters Licences, won't same fate befall Rob Grant.??

It would seem unfair if so as he has literally never promoted a Meeting due to Covid, but it does make Acesliders questions the more important.

Hopefully Newcastle will be at tapes in 2021 and for many years after that.

No if it is something outwith his control and he has the finances to carry on; the reasons for the other places mentioned going down were for totally different circumstances to those that RG now faces

3 hours ago, Argos said:

Are you serious do you really think you would not receive a Prison sentence for Income Tax evasion

Correct but to be fair (and depending on the sum) for Income Tax Evasion and failure to pay NI the tax office tend to pursue on a settlement outcome  however as pointed out Lester Piggott went down and Ken Dodd came very close but he settled out of court for Tax Evasion I believe; and what you have to remember is the Tax and NI commitment to a Speedway Team must be negligible as most riders these days are self employed (See Aceslider has come back on this and he is basically correct) however I don't think this is for Income Tax or NI looking at things from the outside (and I may be wrong) this is potentially for none payment of VAT and the VAT man (again tries to settle but) will push for custodial sentences to make an example of folk thinking of not paying VAT. So the gaol comments might not be that wide of the mark...

2 hours ago, crescent girl said:

I believe the BSPA bond, if surrendered, would be used to pay off the speedway-specific debts (riders, BSPA/SCB fees, maybe insurance premiums) ahead of any claims from outside the sport.   But be assured, the BSPA will do all in their power to keep speedway at Brough, and to help Rob Grant get his show on the road. 

There are no Speedway related debts the bond is safe and the club is safe RG has done and seen to that and fair play to him...

I have tried to clarify some points as I see things and hope this helps but these are my personal thoughts on the issue to hand and I have made some assumptions that may be totally wide of the mark and will happily retract any comment with an apology if they are wide of the mark or incorrect..

Regards
THJ

Edited October 28, 2020 by TotallyHonestJohn
Missed out word

[arnieg]

43 minutes ago, Aceslider said:

Yes I’m being absolutely serious!

HMRC in cases of corporate failure will more often than not work to their own policy of following Code of Practice 9. As I stated in my original post, this is a civil procedure and any unpaid tax liabilities will fall within civil rules determined by the Taxes Acts. They do not prescribe for custodial sentences!

Previous posters referred to prison sentences for several sports related people which actually arose through criminal prosecution in totally different circumstances.

 

As a former tax consultant with plenty of experience of Inland Revenue (that dates me!)  can I endorse this. Unless something truly outrageous has been going on I would think the odds of a criminal prosecution are very low and of imprisonment lower still.

One IR investigation I dealt with  involved a speedway promotion - ironically one of the few really honest speedway promoters I've encountered.

[screm]

Newcastle Speedway get green light for 2021.

After a very challenging and stressful 2020, with numerous issues going on behind the scenes, including an HMRC investigation from the period before the new managements took over, which ultimately gave sole director Rob Grant no other alternative but to appoint an insolvency practitioners company to wind up the company that operated the Newcastle Diamonds speedway team.

After plenty of discussions, and sorting various issues out with the liquidation officer, Greg Whitehead of Northpoint Insolvency Practitioners, club owner Rob Grant can, with relief, confirm Newcastle Diamonds will take to the track at the Newcastle stadium in 2021 trading under a new company, NEWCASTLE DIAMONDS LTD.

Grant added: "This certainly has been a rollercoaster of a year and we haven't even turned a wheel in anger. The challenging times we have just gone through have, at times, given myself a bit of a reality check, but I'm committed and enthusiastic as ever to ensure Newcastle Speedway continues.

"I am the sole director of the new company and I want everyone to know that I'm raring to get this show on the road.

"The new company will honour the benefits of the season tickets purchased as well as all the fantastic sponsorship packages we obtained earlier this year for 2021.

"I can't thank you all enough for your support and look forward to seeing you all next season."

[andys]

2 hours ago, Aceslider said:

Yes I’m being absolutely serious!

HMRC in cases of corporate failure will more often than not work to their own policy of following Code of Practice 9. As I stated in my original post, this is a civil procedure and any unpaid tax liabilities will fall within civil rules determined by the Taxes Acts. They do not prescribe for custodial sentences!

Previous posters referred to prison sentences for several sports related people which actually arose through criminal prosecution in totally different circumstances.

 

Come on you obviously haven't a clue wot your talking about when it comes to financial stuff and taxes etc, we've seen you making mistakes filling in your programme before remember.... :-) 

[Aceslider]

6 minutes ago, andys said:

Come on you obviously haven't a clue wot your talking about when it comes to financial stuff and taxes etc, we've seen you making mistakes filling in your programme before remember.... :-) 

Did you mean "matchday magazine" ?

[andys]

7 minutes ago, Aceslider said:

Did you mean "matchday magazine" ?

Bugger that's right it has been a while lol

[TotallyHonestJohn]

2 minutes ago, Aceslider said:

Did you mean "matchday magazine" ?

Which are a non VAT item... you don't pay VAT on a magazine... hmmmm?

Experience has shown me Inland Revenue are reasonable people and work with you... The VAT man tends to read you your rights or tells you to pay up otherwise he will remove your Chattles? Then when you tell him you dont own a cow (which I thought was hilarious by the way) he blew his stack and came round the the office the following week to see for himself what was going on...

This could definitely rumble on for a while....

Regards 

THJ 

[Aceslider]

2 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

Which are a non VAT item... you don't pay VAT on a magazine... hmmmm?

Experience has shown me Inland Revenue are reasonable people and work with you... The VAT man tends to read you your rights or tells you to pay up otherwise he will remove your Chattles? Then when you tell him you dont own a cow (which I thought was hilarious by the way) he blew his stack and came round the the office the following week to see for himself what was going on...

This could definitely rumble on for a while....

Regards 

THJ 

Yes that is a point.

Just suppose you took the view that there was no VAT output to declare on sale of the magazine, it doesn't take a maths genius to work out the potential underdeclaration of VAT going back to the point when programmes became magazines, if HMRC did not accept the terminology. Whatever the hypothetical underpayment might be, interest and penalties would then need to be added. Could quickly turn a solvent company into an insolvent one.

As you say, could rumble on for a while. I wonder whether they will take the view that there is no point in pursuing given the lack of assets?

To a large extent, from the sound of things, it is now academic so far as the new promotion is concerned, which is great news for Newcastle Speedway

[arnieg]

Can I point out programmes are zero rated. However racecards are standard rated as they are principally for filling in. The HMRC leaflet on leaflets (!) and other printed materials provides very precise guidelines. 

For example a political or marketing leaflet is zero rated unless more than one third of it is a coupon or survey for filling in, detaching and returning.

I believe the Sheffield 'pizza menu' racecards of a few years back were VATable, but in general speedway programmes will be zero rated.

[Justgotmecpc]

2 hours ago, screm said:

Newcastle Speedway get green light for 2021.

After a very challenging and stressful 2020, with numerous issues going on behind the scenes, including an HMRC investigation from the period before the new managements took over, which ultimately gave sole director Rob Grant no other alternative but to appoint an insolvency practitioners company to wind up the company that operated the Newcastle Diamonds speedway team.

After plenty of discussions, and sorting various issues out with the liquidation officer, Greg Whitehead of Northpoint Insolvency Practitioners, club owner Rob Grant can, with relief, confirm Newcastle Diamonds will take to the track at the Newcastle stadium in 2021 trading under a new company, NEWCASTLE DIAMONDS LTD.

Grant added: "This certainly has been a rollercoaster of a year and we haven't even turned a wheel in anger. The challenging times we have just gone through have, at times, given myself a bit of a reality check, but I'm committed and enthusiastic as ever to ensure Newcastle Speedway continues.

"I am the sole director of the new company and I want everyone to know that I'm raring to get this show on the road.

"The new company will honour the benefits of the season tickets purchased as well as all the fantastic sponsorship packages we obtained earlier this year for 2021.

"I can't thank you all enough for your support and look forward to seeing you all next season."

Never in doubt