Newcastle 2020

[soupy]

1 minute ago, KEITH M said:

Does anyone know how long “ the period of grace is ? “

Until the BSPA get sick of waiting for confirmation lol

[enotian]

Trouble is even if investment can be secured Newcastle will struggle to be competitive and that isn't sustainable.

With Glasgow and now Poole money in the mix, a Sunday race night, no access to foreign newcomers and a track that doesn't suit the modern bikes we're  always going to struggle to attract riders. With no blame attached to the promotion. The 2019 team on paper was decent but it became apparent that the likes of Worrall, Jorgensen and Bjerre weren't there as a preference.

Why the authorities insist that the three league structure is maintainable is beyond me, given the number of tracks which have folded recently. Looks like there'll only be three stand alone National League clubs next season if Plymouth run at that level.

You can't cut costs at Championship level because half the riders need to be competitive in the Premiership and on the continent, effectively using the Championship to supplement their priority fixtures.

With the reducing number of tracks the Championship needs to be the development league for young British and UK based riders who don't ride on the continent. At that level the costs can come down. But with the likes of Glasgow and Poole splashing cash at this level there's only going to be more closures as the have nots struggle to keep up.

 

 

[Aceslider]

6 minutes ago, enotian said:

Trouble is even if investment can be secured Newcastle will struggle to be competitive and that isn't sustainable.

With Glasgow and now Poole money in the mix, a Sunday race night, no access to foreign newcomers and a track that doesn't suit the modern bikes we're  always going to struggle to attract riders. With no blame attached to the promotion. The 2019 team on paper was decent but it became apparent that the likes of Worrall, Jorgensen and Bjerre weren't there as a preference.

Why the authorities insist that the three league structure is maintainable is beyond me, given the number of tracks which have folded recently. Looks like there'll only be three stand alone National League clubs next season if Plymouth run at that level.

You can't cut costs at Championship level because half the riders need to be competitive in the Premiership and on the continent, effectively using the Championship to supplement their priority fixtures.

With the reducing number of tracks the Championship needs to be the development league for young British and UK based riders who don't ride on the continent. At that level the costs can come down. But with the likes of Glasgow and Poole splashing cash at this level there's only going to be more closures as the have nots struggle to keep up.

 

 

Your post makes very depressing reading from a Newcastle perspective, but I think you are spot on

Financial "investment" from individuals does not make sense as you will never get a financial return on your investment and your capital will be dissipated over a period of time again with little or no return.

Business sponsorship coupled with a source of media income is really the only way this sport can make its way at Premiership/Championship level coupled with THJ's witty quote about someone starting with a large fortune prepared to end up with a small fortune.

I suspect Newcastle have been on borrowed time for a couple of seasons and I for one really just pray for a miracle as the prospect of Sunday night without speedway at Brough is unthinkable.

Just so sad if we close that the English family in particular along with the whole team (Steve Brock, Andrew Dalby, Roy Clarke, Graham Smith, Dr Jenny Hogg, Lawrence Heppell, Graeme Patterson, track staff, Martin Phillips, Phil Day, Barry Wallace and apologies to anyone I have missed ....) behind the scenes who have put so much into keeping the Diamonds going will have ended their involvement without the fans having an opportunity to show their recognition for all they have done!!

 

[Wee Eck]

24 minutes ago, enotian said:

Trouble is even if investment can be secured Newcastle will struggle to be competitive and that isn't sustainable.

With Glasgow and now Poole money in the mix, a Sunday race night, no access to foreign newcomers and a track that doesn't suit the modern bikes we're  always going to struggle to attract riders. With no blame attached to the promotion. The 2019 team on paper was decent but it became apparent that the likes of Worrall, Jorgensen and Bjerre weren't there as a preference.

Why the authorities insist that the three league structure is maintainable is beyond me, given the number of tracks which have folded recently. Looks like there'll only be three stand alone National League clubs next season if Plymouth run at that level.

You can't cut costs at Championship level because half the riders need to be competitive in the Premiership and on the continent, effectively using the Championship to supplement their priority fixtures.

With the reducing number of tracks the Championship needs to be the development league for young British and UK based riders who don't ride on the continent. At that level the costs can come down. But with the likes of Glasgow and Poole splashing cash at this level there's only going to be more closures as the have nots struggle to keep up.

 

 

What makes you think that Glasgow and Poole will be “splashing cash”? Poole have never been big payers, but their riders were often subsidised by big paying sponsors. And their dropping a league to make money not splash it around. Glasgow pay well but you’ve got to look south, indeed very far south, to find the biggest payers in CL 

[enotian]

18 minutes ago, Wee Eck said:

What makes you think that Glasgow and Poole will be “splashing cash”? Poole have never been big payers, but their riders were often subsidised by big paying sponsors. And their dropping a league to make money not splash it around. Glasgow pay well but you’ve got to look south, indeed very far south, to find the biggest payers in CL 

Wasn't meant as a jibe at either. Regardless of how they fund it they're (plus whoever else you allude to [I didn't know there was further south than Poole]) big fish in a little pond, resulting in riders pay expectations increasing. It's sport if you can afford to why wouldn't you. Only trouble is when others try to compete and it becomes unsustainable. 

[Justgotmecpc]

20 minutes ago, enotian said:

Wasn't meant as a jibe at either. Regardless of how they fund it they're (plus whoever else you allude to [I didn't know there was further south than Poole]) big fish in a little pond, resulting in riders pay expectations increasing. It's sport if you can afford to why wouldn't you. Only trouble is when others try to compete and it becomes unsustainable. 

Then again if the crowds are decent to start the season with then surely the riders i,e lasse could at least show that there going to try and the fans not all might have thought well if we get beat at least the lads are having a good go & I'm not just on about lasse by the way but for me only Matty & max looked as tho they cared and jacub until he got dropped then ully came in & done a good job ... 

[Justgotmecpc]

Just now, pienpeesman said:

Then again if the crowds are decent to start the season with then surely the riders i,e lasse could at least show that there going to try and the fans not all might have thought well if we get beat at least the lads are having a good go & I'm not just on about lasse by the way but for me only Matty & max looked as tho they cared and jacub until he got dropped then ully came in & done a good job ... 

Give me a team of Wilko robbo & Barker's any day as they never give up

[ruffdiamond]

With the new league format giving a team 16 home league matches, at least 1 koc and at least 2 CS. I wonder if it could be a carrot for negotiating with landlords?... More fixtures would bring more continuity for fans also, which might help. 

With the 'extension' and being a Sunday track, the promotion are probly on the back foot from the start, so as far as building a team is concerned, were probly unlikely to attract any 'top' riders. Unless we can catch one on the way down of course.

[Fromafar]

12 hours ago, enotian said:

Trouble is even if investment can be secured Newcastle will struggle to be competitive and that isn't sustainable.

With Glasgow and now Poole money in the mix, a Sunday race night, no access to foreign newcomers and a track that doesn't suit the modern bikes we're  always going to struggle to attract riders. With no blame attached to the promotion. The 2019 team on paper was decent but it became apparent that the likes of Worrall, Jorgensen and Bjerre weren't there as a preference.

Why the authorities insist that the three league structure is maintainable is beyond me, given the number of tracks which have folded recently. Looks like there'll only be three stand alone National League clubs next season if Plymouth run at that level.

You can't cut costs at Championship level because half the riders need to be competitive in the Premiership and on the continent, effectively using the Championship to supplement their priority fixtures.

With the reducing number of tracks the Championship needs to be the development league for young British and UK based riders who don't ride on the continent. At that level the costs can come down. But with the likes of Glasgow and Poole splashing cash at this level there's only going to be more closures as the have nots struggle to keep up.

 

 

Don’t think Glasgow or Poole money plays any part in the reasoning for Newcastle situation.Do hope they can sort something out though.

[SteveLyric2]

1 hour ago, Fromafar said:

Don’t think Glasgow or Poole money plays any part in the reasoning for Newcastle situation.Do hope they can sort something out though.

The only thing Poole's money does is always ensure that riders are paid correctly and on time! The main reason to go SGBC is to recoup some losses from sponsors going bust mid season and to get back their traditional raceday  ie Wednesdays. Not sure that any of that affects the Diamonds situ which I hope is sorted asap.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Skidder1

[enotian]

18 minutes ago, Skidder1 said:

The only thing Poole's money does is always ensure that riders are paid correctly and on time! The main reason to go SGBC is to recoup some losses from sponsors going bust mid season and to get back their traditional raceday  ie Wednesdays. Not sure that any of that affects the Diamonds situ which I hope is sorted asap.

So far as I am aware the Newcastle promotion have a similar reputation, yet still struggle to attract riders.

The point is that, whether it's Poole and/or Glasgow or not, there is a disparity between what some clubs can afford. Not the fault of those clubs, they live within their means. My point is that their isn't sufficient clubs left to sustain the  three tier structure so the Championship needs to be a sustainable standard for the majority, which inevitably means less professional and featuring less expensive 'international' standard riders. But whilst clubs with larger budgets remain in the Championship the rest will try to be competitive on the basis that if they're not the crowd levels fall. Either way is unsustainable in the long term unless you can reduce costs.

You could argue that if speedway in Newcastle is unsustainable (due to a Sunday race night and/or high stadium rental etc) then they should drop down to the National League but that's the problem. Even if Belle Vue and Cradley continue it's a maximum six team league which just isn't viable and not great news for the development of young British riders who struggle to make Championship level pay (Thomas, Wood etc).

With only 22 tracks in operation, now would have been the opportunity to have restructured to two tiers, widening the gap between both and getting rid of doubling up for all bar British development riders. Workington's demise last season should have been the tipping point. How many more will fall before it's inevitable?

[Gunner85]

Hope Newcastle stay in the Championship league.

good luck for 2020

[Fromafar]

20 minutes ago, enotian said:

So far as I am aware the Newcastle promotion have a similar reputation, yet still struggle to attract riders.

The point is that, whether it's Poole and/or Glasgow or not, there is a disparity between what some clubs can afford. Not the fault of those clubs, they live within their means. My point is that their isn't sufficient clubs left to sustain the  three tier structure so the Championship needs to be a sustainable standard for the majority, which inevitably means less professional and featuring less expensive 'international' standard riders. But whilst clubs with larger budgets remain in the Championship the rest will try to be competitive on the basis that if they're not the crowd levels fall. Either way is unsustainable in the long term unless you can reduce costs.

You could argue that if speedway in Newcastle is unsustainable (due to a Sunday race night and/or high stadium rental etc) then they should drop down to the National League but that's the problem. Even if Belle Vue and Cradley continue it's a maximum six team league which just isn't viable and not great news for the development of young British riders who struggle to make Championship level pay (Thomas, Wood etc).

With only 22 tracks in operation, now would have been the opportunity to have restructured to two tiers, widening the gap between both and getting rid of doubling up for all bar British development riders. Workington's demise last season should have been the tipping point. How many more will fall before it's inevitable?

The reluctance to restructure is a mistake .IMO.

[balderdash&piffle]

1 hour ago, Fromafar said:

The reluctance to restructure is a mistake .IMO.

As usual. they have tinkered around the edges, going back to something they tried 3 years ago.  The BSPA is it's own downfall, they need to be radical but for what ever reason are reluctant to change. 

[ruffdiamond]

53 minutes ago, balderdash&piffle said:

As usual. they have tinkered around the edges, going back to something they tried 3 years ago.  The BSPA is it's own downfall, they need to be radical but for what ever reason are reluctant to change. 

Narrow minded??? 

Unable to think outside the box???

[NeilWatson]

4 hours ago, balderdash&piffle said:

As usual. they have tinkered around the edges, going back to something they tried 3 years ago.  The BSPA is it's own downfall, they need to be radical but for what ever reason are reluctant to change. 

The proposed regionalisation is different to the previous incarnation in 2014 when " Teams will meet all other Teams in a League table on 2 occasions, 1 at home and 1 away and by ballot additional Teams to make a total of 14 home and 14 away fixtures. ". The proposal for 2020 is " Clubs race opponents from their own section twice at home and twice away, and opponents from the other section once at home and once away. "

That removes the lottery element and gives each Club 16 home league fixtures; meeting the five same Group Clubs twice, and the six other Group Clubs once.

[mikebv]

6 hours ago, enotian said:

So far as I am aware the Newcastle promotion have a similar reputation, yet still struggle to attract riders.

The point is that, whether it's Poole and/or Glasgow or not, there is a disparity between what some clubs can afford. Not the fault of those clubs, they live within their means. My point is that their isn't sufficient clubs left to sustain the  three tier structure so the Championship needs to be a sustainable standard for the majority, which inevitably means less professional and featuring less expensive 'international' standard riders. But whilst clubs with larger budgets remain in the Championship the rest will try to be competitive on the basis that if they're not the crowd levels fall. Either way is unsustainable in the long term unless you can reduce costs.

You could argue that if speedway in Newcastle is unsustainable (due to a Sunday race night and/or high stadium rental etc) then they should drop down to the National League but that's the problem. Even if Belle Vue and Cradley continue it's a maximum six team league which just isn't viable and not great news for the development of young British riders who struggle to make Championship level pay (Thomas, Wood etc).

With only 22 tracks in operation, now would have been the opportunity to have restructured to two tiers, widening the gap between both and getting rid of doubling up for all bar British development riders. Workington's demise last season should have been the tipping point. How many more will fall before it's inevitable?

If Newcastle go (and let's hope not), that's 13 gone in 19 years..

Thats 1 club going every 1.46 years...

Surely someone who is involved in running the sport can see that what they currently have (and have used for far too long) as an operating model and business plan simply doesn't work..?

How many will go before it gets sorted?

Best of luck to the Diamonds...

NB Did all these 13 clubs get £5,000 fines for closing? 

[DC2]

21 minutes ago, NeilWatson said:

The proposed regionalisation is different to the previous incarnation in 2014 when " Teams will meet all other Teams in a League table on 2 occasions, 1 at home and 1 away and by ballot additional Teams to make a total of 14 home and 14 away fixtures. ". The proposal for 2020 is " Clubs race opponents from their own section twice at home and twice away, and opponents from the other section once at home and once away. "

That removes the lottery element and gives each Club 16 home league fixtures; meeting the five same Group Clubs twice, and the six other Group Clubs once.

 

Except it’s still a bit of a lottery: you could have the six worst clubs in one half of the draw and yet the top three of them will qualify for the play offs!

[NeilWatson]

Just now, DC2 said:

 

Except it’s still a bit of a lottery: you could have the six worst clubs in one half of the draw and yet the top three of them will qualify for the play offs!

I expect to see one league table with all twelve Clubs - two  mini-leagues would only work if the qualifying fixtures were contained within that Group.

[DC2]

2 minutes ago, NeilWatson said:

I expect to see one league table with all twelve Clubs - two  mini-leagues would only work if the qualifying fixtures were contained within that Group.

 

Good. Thanks, Neil.