Newcastle 2020

[ruffdiamond]

26 minutes ago, Marshall07 said:

Announced at Redcar last night that it would be two separate leagues of North and South with top 3 from each qualifying.

Champions of each would go straight to play off semis and the rest battle it out amongst themselves

That might be the only way it will work, if there isn't the same amount of teams per group.

[NeilWatson]

22 minutes ago, Marshall07 said:

Announced at Redcar last night that it would be two separate leagues of North and South with top 3 from each qualifying.

Champions of each would go straight to play off semis and the rest battle it out amongst themselves

I can’t see how that can be the case under the format as stated with each Club racing against both Groups during the season.

[MaugerDiamond]

On 10/20/2019 at 6:08 PM, Tsunami said:

Riders I would consider for next year would be :-

Tero

Wethers

Ash

Max

Ull

Stevie

but no to Danny, Thomas or Lasse.

Looks about right Tsunami!

[Justgotmecpc]

44 minutes ago, MaugerDiamond said:

Looks about right Tsunami!

Can only see maybe 4 out of that lot if Newcastle run that is 2,3,4& 5 in the list

[enotian]

7 hours ago, DC2 said:

 

I appear to have misunderstood you.

I am using the current proposed fixtures, and in that case one league table is better than two conference tables.

I assume you are saying that it would be better if there were two separate conferences with no meetings with a team in the other conference? Even that would be no better as the teams in one conference could all be better than those in the other.

The only fair way is for the teams to be in one league and ride against each other the same number of times.

Fairness has been sacrificed for less travelling/more “derbies”.

No please ignore the other comments.  I'm basing my opinion on the proposed fixtures (twice h & a against your own region and once h & a against the other region).  This is definitely a good idea and should have been done ages ago instead of the pointless Shield.

I agree with you that the only really fair approach is that every team faces the same opposition the same number of times but that's either only 11 home fixtures or too many at 22 home fixtures.  So 16 home fixtures is perfect.  However, as you've pointed out, in terms of fairness it does raise the issue of all the teams not facing the same opposition the same amount of times.

For that reason, as seems to have been confirmed at Redcar, there should be a Northern and Southern table (not a combined table) with the top three from each qualifying for the play offs.

I reiterate hopefully when it comes to the quarter finals the 2nd in the North will play 3rd in the South etc. This will mean that if one region is more dominant than the other then the top three teams can make the semi finals.

As I say not perfect but neither is the traditional league format when you consider teams can improve/strengthen over a season. Hope that clarifies for everyone.

[DC2]

12 minutes ago, enotian said:

No please ignore the other comments. 

I'm basing my opinion on the proposed fixtures (twice h & a against your own region and once h & a against the other region). 

This is definitely a good idea and should have been done ages ago instead of the pointless Shield.

 

 

But it’s not a good idea to have a league table skewed by teams racing some opponents more than others.

That’s just daft.

Why not have a proper league with 22 fixtures, one home and one away against each of the other opponents, and a separate competition divided into north and south conferences?

Instead they’ve combined the two and made a pig’s ear.

[TotallyHonestJohn]

1 hour ago, ruffdiamond said:

That might be the only way it will work, if there isn't the same amount of teams per group.

If Newcasle fold whats the problem with moving Birminghan into the North group and promoting Plymouth into the South region...  back to the same amount...

Regards 

THJ

 

[ruffdiamond]

51 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

If Newcasle fold whats the problem with moving Birminghan into the North group and promoting Plymouth into the South region...  back to the same amount...

Regards 

THJ

 

Yeah, I did comment on something along those lines earlier on,,, dunno about moving Birmingham north, or Leicester, depends on where they draw the line on the map. 

I was also bearing in mind some comments on the 'fours' thread, which I think Steve has just highlighted.

Edited November 17, 2019 by ruffdiamond

[NeilWatson]

1 hour ago, enotian said:

No please ignore the other comments.  I'm basing my opinion on the proposed fixtures (twice h & a against your own region and once h & a against the other region).  This is definitely a good idea and should have been done ages ago instead of the pointless Shield.

I agree with you that the only really fair approach is that every team faces the same opposition the same number of times but that's either only 11 home fixtures or too many at 22 home fixtures.  So 16 home fixtures is perfect.  However, as you've pointed out, in terms of fairness it does raise the issue of all the teams not facing the same opposition the same amount of times.

For that reason, as seems to have been confirmed at Redcar, there should be a Northern and Southern table (not a combined table) with the top three from each qualifying for the play offs.

I reiterate hopefully when it comes to the quarter finals the 2nd in the North will play 3rd in the South etc. This will mean that if one region is more dominant than the other then the top three teams can make the semi finals.

As I say not perfect but neither is the traditional league format when you consider teams can improve/strengthen over a season. Hope that clarifies for everyone.

Northern and Southern tables, but each containing all twelve Clubs?

[StevePark]

49 minutes ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

If Newcasle fold whats the problem with moving Birminghan into the North group and promoting Plymouth into the South region...  back to the same amount...

Regards 

THJ

 

Because Plymouth have said that the extra financial implications meant they couldn't move up, I don't think that will happen.

[leander]

2 hours ago, NeilWatson said:

I can’t see how that can be the case under the format as stated with each Club racing against both Groups during the season.

It works in American Football. Numerous conferences (leagues). They play everyone home and away in their own conference and a selection of teams from the others to make up the season. Top teams in each conference + a number of "best" runners up"  go into end of season play-offs. 

[NeilWatson]

6 minutes ago, leander said:

It works in American Football. Numerous conferences (leagues). They play everyone home and away in their own conference and a selection of teams from the others to make up the season. Top teams in each conference + a number of "best" runners up"  go into end of season play-offs. 

Do the results of the matches with ‘a selection of teams from the others’ appear in the league tables along with the matches within their own conference?

[northyorksbear]

Each team in Northern league will race the same opponents the same number of times eg twice against 5 teams and once against the other six,so it willbe a fair table.  Then likewise in Southern league - Seems quite simple and straightforward to me

 

[Justgotmecpc]

1 hour ago, TotallyHonestJohn said:

If Newcasle fold whats the problem with moving Birminghan into the North group and promoting Plymouth into the South region...  back to the same amount...

Regards 

THJ

 

Or even Leicester

[Justgotmecpc]

20 minutes ago, StevePark said:

Because Plymouth have said that the extra financial implications meant they couldn't move up, I don't think that will happen.

So why did they apply in the first place Steve

[StevePark]

2 minutes ago, pienpeesman said:

So why did they apply in the first place Steve

When they got to the 'nitty gritty' extra financial implications were then put upon them, which they were not aware of when initially wanting to move up.

Their Website says: "HAVING BEEN GRANTED PERMISSION TO PUT ITS CREDENTIALS TO THE SPORTS GENERAL COUNCIL AT THE AGM HELD IN COVENTRY THIS WEEK, THE REQUIREMENT OF NEW AND PREVIOUSLY UNFORESEEN CONDITIONS OF ENTRY; WHICH WOULD HAVE MEANT INCREASED FINANCIAL ASSURANCES AND BONDS HAVING TO BE PAID IMMEDIATELY, MEANT THAT THE PROMOTION HAD NO ALTERNATIVE BUT TO WITHDRAW THE APPLICATION ON THE GROUNDS OF THE MEDIUM AND LONG TERM FINANCIAL SECURITY OF THE CLUB."

[MartinBSN]

3 hours ago, NeilWatson said:

I can’t see how that can be the case under the format as stated with each Club racing against both Groups during the season.

The leagues are split for points purpose not who you race. Race your league twice home and away, race the other league once

[allthegearbutnaeidea]

1 hour ago, NeilWatson said:

Northern and Southern tables, but each containing all twelve Clubs?

NBA is best example to look at but basically ours will be a north south split, face ur section twice h&a, other section once h&a, thats all. 

[ruffdiamond]

2 hours ago, DC2 said:

That’s just daft.

Instead they’ve combined the two and made a pig’s ear.

Yeah, but it used to be a silk purse

[arthur cross]

16 minutes ago, NeilWatson said:

Do the results of the matches with ‘a selection of teams from the others’ appear in the league tables along with the matches within their own conference?

With regards to NFL American Football, yes, all the games, whether they're against your own division or a selection of others, appear in one single set of standings with two extra twists - firstly, that the previous season's results help to determine a couple of each team's games the next season - secondly, the rest of the selection of other fixtures is designed on a rotation basis so that despite having only 8 home games each season (and 3 of those are always against your divisional rivals), all the other 31 teams will visit your side in any 8-year span. 

What's being set up in speedway's Championship is nothing like as complicated as the NFL format but here goes with as simple an explanation of the NFL format as possible for anyone who thinks it's just a load of shoulder pads and crash helmets clattering into each other.

The NFL has 32 teams, split firstly into 2 conferences of 16 teams (the American or AFC & the National or NFC) and then each conference split into 4 roughly geographical North, West, South & East divisions, albeit Dallas have remained out-of-sync in the NFC East to maintain their deeply historical rivalries with each of Philadelphia, Washington & New York Giants.

Each team has the following 16 games in total - 6 of them are always the home-&-away games against your own divisional rivals - 4 of them are 2-at-home plus 2-away as the whole of your own division faces the whole of another division in your own conference on a 3-year-rotation for reversing the home-&-away opponents - 4 of them are 2-at-home plus 2-away as the whole of your own division faces the whole of a division from the opposite conference on a 4-year-rotation for reversing the home-&-away opponents - and the remaining 2 games are 1-home plus 1-away against teams in your own conference who finished in the same position as you did the previous year.

This last aspect of the fixture compiling does two things - for primetime tv, it creates more clashes between the most successful and popular teams while it deliberately gives last year's poorer teams a slight helping hand towards a better record the next season by scheduling extra games against similarly poor sides.

There's a complete understanding that any single 16-game regular season involving 32 teams can't possibly create perfect fixture parity - instead, the aim is a mix of traditional divisional rivalries alongside both a steady rotation of other opponents and the twist of forcing last year's best teams to survive a tougher schedule the next time round in a bid to share the glory around more teams.

Hence, for example, Philadelphia in the NFC East always play Dallas, NY Giants and Washington both home and away for 6 of their games - this year. they've got the NFC North on their 3-year NFC rotation (home games with Detroit and Chicago, trips to Green Bay & Minnesota - those venues will be reversed in 2022) and they've got the AFC East on their 4-year AFC rotation (home to NY Jets and the game they're currently playing against New England, trips to Buffalo & Miami - those venues will be reversed in 2023) and then, because they were 2nd in the 2018 NFC East, they've already visited the 2018 NFC South runner-up Atlanta and next week they're at home to the 2018 NFC West runner-up Seattle.

Next year in 2020, Philadelphia will have their usual 6 divisional games, the reverse of whichever different-NFC-division games they had in 2017, the reverse of whichever AFC-division games they had in  2016 plus those couple of games against NFC sides determined by the final 2019 standings.

At the end of the regular season, all the results go into one tally of wins and losses for each team whose records are then displayed in their 8 separate divisions of 4 teams to settle 12 playoff tickets, namely each division winner and the best 2 other records in each conference as wildcards so that if one particular division has had an amazing year, even its 3rd-placed team can claim a wildcard as long as its record beats all its rival runners-up. 

Trust me, speedway's 2020 Championship won't be anything like as complicated as that !! - for example all the Northern speedway teams will end up with exactly the same combination of opponents as each other have faced, likewise all the Southern teams.

Ideally with Newcastle on board, it'll be 32 meetings in total, 10 at home & 10 away covering each team's 5 divisional rivals twice plus 6 home & 6 away covering the opposite division's sides once.