Speedway's future IMO

[Big Al]

There is one change I would like to see from 2020.

Scrap "golden heats" as the way to decide tied scores after two legs of a playoff match. 

If the two matches produce level aggregate scores, the winner is determined by the league place the teams finished the season in.

[SteveLyric2]

1 hour ago, Big Al said:

There is one change I would like to see from 2020.

Scrap "golden heats" as the way to decide tied scores after two legs of a playoff match. 

If the two matches produce level aggregate scores, the winner is determined by the league place the teams finished the season in.

What? The team that finished lower as it was a better than expected play-off performance?!

[fatface]

On 11/6/2019 at 11:39 AM, Chris116 said:

I find the comments about young people not being able to attend midweek meetings due to school the next day interesting as throughout my school days I went with my parents to Wimbledon Speedway every week and they used to run on a Monday evening in the early days which then changed to Thursday evenings. My parents had a strict rule that I had to finish my homework before we went to the meeting. If truth were known it was the one day in the week when I did do my homework properly as there was no way I was going to miss the racing! Are today's children really so soft that they are unable to have one or two late nights during the school week? 

I do hope we are not drifting into the cheap "snowflake generation" argument here are we? I'll give my own experience as an example...

I was first taken to the sport aged 7 to Belle Vue's Hyde Road and was hooked..we then went every Saturday. Not a school night, no problem. Though I suspect it might have been a problem had it been a midweek track at that young age....less so 2-4 years later.  Then, we certainly had the odd midweek trip to follow the Aces to Sheffield and Birmingham. 

I am now a father of six year old twins, they will be 7 by the time of the next speedway season, so the right age (I think) to have a grasp of what's going on and potentially engage with it. Bedtime at ours is 7-7:30, later at the weekend. So a midweek track is out for now.

Additionally, even when they are a little older and could cope with a later midweek night, we - unlike my parent's boomer generation - are much more squeezed for time...and disposable income beyond the mortgage and bills. Like many in the 30s-40s generation, both us parents work and after the kids get back from after school club and we rush to make dinner, there's little time left for anything before bed.

In contrast, as a child, I had the luxury of a stay-at-home mum who could get us kids home at a decent time, have dinner ready early for the whole family and much more time for any possible midweek outing. Society has changed.

Now, this isn't all about me, speedway can draw from older and younger groups. But I do think that appealing to my (current) demographic is absolutely key for speedway now and in the future. We only really have time- and money - for weekend outings and if speedway can't cater for us, it is going to miss out on thousands of families like mine. 

 

Edited November 7, 2019 by falcace

[Ray Stadia]

2 hours ago, falcace said:

I do hope we are not drifting into the cheap "snowflake generation" argument here are we? I'll give my own experience as an example...

I was first taken to the sport aged 7 to Belle Vue's Hyde Road and was hooked..we then went every Saturday. Not a school night, no problem. Though I suspect it might have been a problem had it been a midweek track at that young age....less so 2-4 years later.  Then, we certainly had the odd midweek trip to follow the Aces to Sheffield and Birmingham. 

I am now a father of six year old twins, they will be 7 by the time of the next speedway season, so the right age (I think) to have a grasp of what's going on and potentially engage with it. Bedtime at ours is 7-7:30, later at the weekend. So a midweek track is out for now.

Additionally, even when they are a little older and could cope with a later midweek night, we - unlike my parent's boomer generation - are much more squeezed for time...and disposable income beyond the mortgage and bills. Like many in the 30s-40s generation, both us parents work and after the kids get back from after school club and we rush to make dinner, there's little time left for anything before bed.

In contrast, as a child, I had the luxury of a stay-at-home mum who could get us kids home at a decent time, have dinner ready early for the whole family and much more time for any possible midweek outing. Society has changed.

Now, this isn't all about me, speedway can draw from older and younger groups. But I do think that appealing to my (current) demographic is absolutely key for speedway now and in the future. We only really have time- and money - for weekend outings and if speedway can't meet that demand, it is going to miss out on thousands of families like mine. 

 

I think it's a very good point. After all, you wouldn't expect to watch Moto X, Grass Track, Moto GP, F1 during the week. The only other mid-week stuff I can think of is TT racing and other road racing motorcycle events. If there was a mid-week Moto X event, I wonder how many fans would turn up, compared to a weekend? Years ago, when speedway was more popular and had more tracks, the bulk of the fans could probably walk to the tracks or use public transport, but now with far fewer tracks and fans thin on the ground, those fans who are interested, have to travel and that is a put off for a mid-week event. It would still work in a city, such as London, with the good public transport it has. 

[mikebv]

1 hour ago, Ray Stadia said:

I think it's a very good point. After all, you wouldn't expect to watch Moto X, Grass Track, Moto GP, F1 during the week. The only other mid-week stuff I can think of is TT racing and other road racing motorcycle events. If there was a mid-week Moto X event, I wonder how many fans would turn up, compared to a weekend? Years ago, when speedway was more popular and had more tracks, the bulk of the fans could probably walk to the tracks or use public transport, but now with far fewer tracks and fans thin on the ground, those fans who are interested, have to travel and that is a put off for a mid-week event. It would still work in a city, such as London, with the good public transport it has. 

You only have to look at Poland as to when the best time is to run Speedway..

They wouldn't dream of running at any time other than weekends..

Play offs get decent crowds over here but I would suggest it doesn't make up in any way shape or for how many don't attend during the season due to riding Monday to Thursday..

The other glaring issue is how very few teenagers go..

Meaning free admission to Kids with a paying adult simply doesn't maintain enough interest..

Letting 18 and unders in for free, if still a student, would at least possibly deliver some return when they become 19 and have to start paying..

It would also mean they could attend in groups which teenagers so love to do...

And not have to stand with Mum, Dad, Gran and Grandad..

And wouldn't be any financial loss really as they are not there now. But you may make some money at the bar and burger van!

 

Edited November 7, 2019 by mikebv

[fatface]

56 minutes ago, mikebv said:

You only have to look at Poland as to when the best time is to run Speedway..

They wouldn't dream of running at any time other than weekends..

Play offs get decent crowds over here but I would suggest it doesn't make up in any way shape or for how many don't attend during the season due to riding Monday to Thursday..

In short, speedway is saying to Dave and his family down the road that it cannot cater for them because it has to accommodate the wishes of some Danish bloke you've never heard of, so he can also ride in a Polish town you've never heard of either. Bonkers 

Edited November 7, 2019 by falcace

[mikebv]

44 minutes ago, falcace said:

In short, speedway is saying to Dave and his family down the road that it cannot cater for them because it has to accommodate some Danish bloke you've never heard of, so he can ride in a Polish town you've never heard of either. Bonkers 

Pretty much so..

Maybe if you said to 'Dave', "You can bring you, your missus and three kids for thirty quid on a Friday evening, Saturday evening or Sunday late (ish) afternoon". He might take you up on the offer..?

Ask him to spend forty quid plus for him and his family to attend, on a school night during the week, and I would suggest the likelyhood is he won't..

[orion]

The clubs who run in the uk at weekends  hardly do any better do they ?  if the product is better on a weekday rather than a weekend Dave will go on the week day . More things to do at a weekend now in the uk than go to speedway a fact lost on some .

 

[DC2]

1 hour ago, falcace said:

In short, speedway is saying to Dave and his family down the road that it cannot cater for them because it has to accommodate the wishes of some Danish bloke you've never heard of, so he can also ride in a Polish town you've never heard of either. Bonkers 

 

No, it isn’t.

It’s saying we have speedway on a certain day, come along.

In the same way that all sporting events choose when they run without consulting Dave.

[Chadster]

Like most things, there is no one size fits all solution. Sheffield have just abandoned weekend racing to return to Thursday night, Poole are so determined to race on a Wednesday that they've dropped a league to do so, ex-Saturday tracks like Swindon and Kings Lynn now happily run in mid-week and all the indications are that if they had a choice Belle Vue would run on a Friday rather than the Saturdays which I remember so fondly from the Hyde Road days. Incidentally, I think Falcace is absolutely right in his analysis of the social changes that have taken place.

[SteveLyric2]

3 hours ago, mikebv said:

You only have to look at Poland as to when the best time is to run Speedway..

They wouldn't dream of running at any time other than weekends..

Play offs get decent crowds over here but I would suggest it doesn't make up in any way shape or for how many don't attend during the season due to riding Monday to Thursday..

The other glaring issue is how very few teenagers go..

Meaning free admission to Kids with a paying adult simply doesn't maintain enough interest..

Letting 18 and unders in for free, if still a student, would at least possibly deliver some return when they become 19 and have to start paying..

It would also mean they could attend in groups which teenagers so love to do...

And not have to stand with Mum, Dad, Gran and Grandad..

And wouldn't be any financial loss really as they are not there now. But you may make some money at the bar and burger van!

 

Which in many cases won't be to the benefit of the speedway promotion!!!

[ch958]

I myself am in favour of radical changes which i won't repeat here because i can't take the flak atm. It does look, however that another season of 'lets pretend nothing's wrong' is ahead of us with 2/3 teams being bribed to enter the top league stripping the less disastrous (i won't say successful) CL and NL of clubs. 

One thing i would say again is that people talk about dilution when big names don't ride here but actually the product is well presented good racing, not necessarily star names whose names ,lets be honest, mean f. all to the general public. 

[SteveLyric2]

13 minutes ago, ch958 said:

I myself am in favour of radical changes which i won't repeat here because i can't take the flak atm. It does look, however that another season of 'lets pretend nothing's wrong' is ahead of us with 2/3 teams being bribed to enter the top league stripping the less disastrous (i won't say successful) CL and NL of clubs. 

One thing i would say again is that people talk about dilution when big names don't ride here but actually the product is well presented good racing, not necessarily star names whose names ,lets be honest, mean f. all to the general public. 

who are the 2/3 teams being bribed for next season?

[mikebv]

31 minutes ago, Skidder1 said:

Which in many cases won't be to the benefit of the speedway promotion!!!

Yes for some, but not all...

And if nothing else more people there will at least look like the sport has a following worthy of the word..

As we always say, get a big crowd in and the whole experience changes from the entertainment perspective, which can only begin that virtuous positive circle of 'big crowds/great atmosphere/more repeat visits to sample the same..

You only have to look at the play off finals to see that..

Two pretty average meetings, however both being played out in front of good crowds meant those who were there would have a very different perspective on those meetings than if they had been completed in front of the usual Monday or Thursdsy night die hards..

[ch958]

18 minutes ago, Skidder1 said:

who are the 2/3 teams being bribed for next season?

no idea but they won't run with 6/7 teams will they? And its hardly a sensible business plan to move up is it?

 

 

[SteveLyric2]

1 hour ago, ch958 said:

no idea but they won't run with 6/7 teams will they? And its hardly a sensible business plan to move up is it?

 

 

Why only 6? They ran with 7 this year

 

[Vince]

10 hours ago, mikebv said:

Yes for some, but not all...

And if nothing else more people there will at least look like the sport has a following worthy of the word..

As we always say, get a big crowd in and the whole experience changes from the entertainment perspective, which can only begin that virtuous positive circle of 'big crowds/great atmosphere/more repeat visits to sample the same..

You only have to look at the play off finals to see that..

Two pretty average meetings, however both being played out in front of good crowds meant those who were there would have a very different perspective on those meetings than if they had been completed in front of the usual Monday or Thursdsy night die hards..

I agree that a big crowd will make the whole thing seem better but how many return to watch normal league meetings in the future? Those extra people are surely lapsed and armchair fans in the main who normally keep an eye on the results in the local paper or watch the meetings on TV. Doesn't seem to engage new fans in any numbers or keep people paying to come in the door. It's been the case for years that a club doing well in the league increases it's crowds significantly, also been the case that often enough the increase doesn't pay for a competitive team. Promoters are much maligned for a lack of ambition when they run cheaper teams but in truth they are often the clubs that survive year on year.

[mikebv]

31 minutes ago, Vince said:

I agree that a big crowd will make the whole thing seem better but how many return to watch normal league meetings in the future? Those extra people are surely lapsed and armchair fans in the main who normally keep an eye on the results in the local paper or watch the meetings on TV. Doesn't seem to engage new fans in any numbers or keep people paying to come in the door. It's been the case for years that a club doing well in the league increases it's crowds significantly, also been the case that often enough the increase doesn't pay for a competitive team. Promoters are much maligned for a lack of ambition when they run cheaper teams but in truth they are often the clubs that survive year on year.

But that's the issue Vince, the 'normal league meetings', dont deliver those less regular fans who know about the sport, therefore dont deliver big crowds, hence no atmosphere, hence no increase in crowds. A perfect vicious circle..

The 'play off qualifiers' don't seem to engage people regularly enough, and the play off themselves almost become then a 'loss reducer' for the season as 'lapsed fans' come back. .

However I bet at most tracks the increased attendance doesn't cover the overall short fall in attendance through the season to watch 'the qualifiers', by some distance...

You might as well give away free tickets to as many people of a certain demographic as you can...

I would suggest anyone 15 to 25 should just be targeted and offered free tickets as that is the glaring demographic missing from most Speedway meetings..

15 year olds now hunt in packs so 10 or so would attend together, and even though there has been free admission for 'kids' for a long time at some tracks, not many get to 16+, leave school, and pay to attend, therefore the system doesn't garner any return..

And hardly anyone under 25 is seen at Speedway these days. And plenty of them will have jobs and disposable income due to more of them now still living with parents, before the (inevitable for many), 'family and mortgage' kicks in around 27-30 years old, and that disposable income becomes an oh, so distant memory..

Target these demographics and, if between 19 to 25, offer one free ticket and maybe three more meetings at say a tenner to try and get them hooked?

Anyone 15 to 18, just throw free tickets at them..

They are not there now so no loss, and the more that attend (paying or not), the more atmosphere naturally gets created. Which may encourage more to attend more regularly in future.

And a virtuous circle begins..

And if nothing else, should you reach the play offs there would be a good few hundred more in the local area who, (by definition of attending for free during the season), now know about the team and sport and might therefore, go along to watch on those nights and pay full price?

 

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by mikebv

[moxey63]

2 hours ago, mikebv said:

But that's the issue Vince, the 'normal league meetings', dont deliver those less regular fans who know about the sport, therefore dont deliver big crowds, hence no atmosphere, hence no increase in crowds. A perfect vicious circle..

The 'play off qualifiers' don't seem to engage people regularly enough, and the play off themselves almost become then a 'loss reducer' for the season as 'lapsed fans' come back. .

However I bet at most tracks the increased attendance doesn't cover the overall short fall in attendance through the season to watch 'the qualifiers', by some distance...

You might as well give away free tickets to as many people of a certain demographic as you can...

I would suggest anyone 15 to 25 should just be targeted and offered free tickets as that is the glaring demographic missing from most Speedway meetings..

15 year olds now hunt in packs so 10 or so would attend together, and even though there has been free admission for 'kids' for a long time at some tracks, not many get to 16+, leave school, and pay to attend, therefore the system doesn't garner any return..

And hardly anyone under 25 is seen at Speedway these days. And plenty of them will have jobs and disposable income due to more of them now still living with parents, before the (inevitable for many), 'family and mortgage' kicks in around 27-30 years old, and that disposable income becomes an oh, so distant memory..

Target these demographics and, if between 19 to 25, offer one free ticket and maybe three more meetings at say a tenner to try and get them hooked?

Anyone 15 to 18, just throw free tickets at them..

They are not there now so no loss, and the more that attend (paying or not), the more atmosphere naturally gets created. Which may encourage more to attend more regularly in future.

And a virtuous circle begins..

And if nothing else, should you reach the play offs there would be a good few hundred more in the local area who, (by definition of attending for free during the season), now know about the team and sport and might therefore, go along to watch on those nights and pay full price?

 

 

Play-Off group matches are open to abuse. We all know teams have suffered mysterious engine failures early on to prove they need strengthening as their poor averages take a hit.

The Play-Off Finals may attract added interest, but I doubt that compensates for reduced crowds over the course of the season for matches that either team can afford to lose most of the time. I mean, who can take seriously chasing a top-four place in a table of seven sides. More teams make the Play-Off semis than fail.

Fans aren't daft. I have watched a team, which purposely tried not to win a match they could have finished top of the qualifying table by doing so. I think even winning the  aggregate bonus point, as it were back then, would have seen them finish table winners.

That one instance implies the qualifying matches are nothing more than padding out the season for seven months.

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by moxey63

[ch958]

i see Burscough FC are building a new ground. You wonder how thats possible on 3 figure crowds. Wonder if anyone would ever think of saying 'leave room for a track round the outside - £1000 quid rent a week during the summer when there's no income'. Few miles outside of Liverpool - massive catchment area you wd think.