Wolverhampton 2020

[Call me wolfie]

9 minutes ago, BWitcher said:

It doesn't matter how you try and twist it.

If we're up to 42.5 by mid season its a blown opportunity as we should have been around 44.5 and dominating.

There is no justification whatsoever for starting 2pts weaker than necessary... only cost.

I don't think it's anything to do with cost at all, had Freddy or Greg made themselves available they would be in.

Personally I would rather watch 3 young riders in Douglas, Becker and Nicol develop than a has been who's career is on a downward spiral

[BWitcher]

25 minutes ago, Call me wolfie said:

I don't think it's anything to do with cost at all, had Freddy or Greg made themselves available they would be in.

Personally I would rather watch 3 young riders in Douglas, Becker and Nicol develop than a has been who's career is on a downward spiral

So why is Schlein in the side then?

Why was PK in the side for many years?

It doesn't matter how you twist it, starting two points below the limit is absolutely ridiculous when there is zero reason to do so. You can have all the young improving riders, but you build to the points limit. 

 

[gazzac]

25 minutes ago, Call me wolfie said:

I don't think it's anything to do with cost at all, had Freddy or Greg made themselves available they would be in.

Personally I would rather watch 3 young riders in Douglas, Becker and Nicol develop than a has been who's career is on a downward spiral

Saw Douglas and Nicol in the CL at Eastie last year, both were fantastic having never riden our awkward/tight track before. From the outside the fact you've got riders who could be the backbone of your team for seasons to come can only be good. I understand being under 2 points grates for some, but long term looks the right way to me, only shame is Nichol isn't doubling with us at Eastie. I'm sure all 3 will up their average this season too, playoffs the aim first,  then who knows, Wolves have done it before as we know to our cost,  2002 still annoys me!

[Wolfsbane]

2 hours ago, BWitcher said:

It doesn't matter how you try and twist it.

If we're up to 42.5 by mid season its a blown opportunity as we should have been around 44.5 and dominating.

There is no justification whatsoever for starting 2pts weaker than necessary... only cost.

Nail. Head.

[Wolfsbane]

1 hour ago, gazzac said:

Saw Douglas and Nicol in the CL at Eastie last year, both were fantastic having never riden our awkward/tight track before. From the outside the fact you've got riders who could be the backbone of your team for seasons to come can only be good. I understand being under 2 points grates for some, but long term looks the right way to me, only shame is Nichol isn't doubling with us at Eastie. I'm sure all 3 will up their average this season too, playoffs the aim first,  then who knows, Wolves have done it before as we know to our cost,  2002 still annoys me!

Mikael

[DJWolves]

Do agree with bwitcher on this. I cannot understand why we are starting the season with a team 2 points below the points limit. 

When the points limit was revealed I wondered whether we would stick with the same 7 as last year. But with Sheffield entering the league that felt like an obvious destination for Howarth who knows that track well and it probably suits him more than Monmore.

If the other 6 riders remain as last season, then the only issue to decide if it has been a successful transfer window is to compare Howarth and Nicol. If Howarth had stayed I suspect he would have averaged a similar amount to last season's 5.72. I would be over the moon if Nicol averaged more than that but I would be confident in saying he wont. So we must be worse off than if we had started with Howarth or someone that could match his average.

There is also an associated factor that Douglas and/or Becker would spend more of the season riding at reserve if Howarth had stayed. Which just adds to the issue

[Wolfsbane]

Howarth's best days at Wolves were when he rode with Freddie. Once Lindgren didn't return, together with injuries, Kyle wasn't as effective.

[BWitcher]

1 hour ago, DJWolves said:

Do agree with bwitcher on this. I cannot understand why we are starting the season with a team 2 points below the points limit. 

When the points limit was revealed I wondered whether we would stick with the same 7 as last year. But with Sheffield entering the league that felt like an obvious destination for Howarth who knows that track well and it probably suits him more than Monmore.

If the other 6 riders remain as last season, then the only issue to decide if it has been a successful transfer window is to compare Howarth and Nicol. If Howarth had stayed I suspect he would have averaged a similar amount to last season's 5.72. I would be over the moon if Nicol averaged more than that but I would be confident in saying he wont. So we must be worse off than if we had started with Howarth or someone that could match his average.

There is also an associated factor that Douglas and/or Becker would spend more of the season riding at reserve if Howarth had stayed. Which just adds to the issue

Absolutely spot on.

Now consider replacing Howarth with any of Harris, Nicholls, Hans Andersen, just three who would be available. All three of them would clean up as a second string at Monmore. If they went up in the team, so what you've got Masters, Thorssell or Schlein as a second string. It would have made us much stronger that last year... instead of weaker than last year.

Then, as you say Becker is at reserve.. should he, or indeed Douglas, really start banging in points, look at the calibre of rider to drop to reserve!

[Call me wolfie]

2 hours ago, BWitcher said:

So why is Schlein in the side then?

Why was PK in the side for many years?

It doesn't matter how you twist it, starting two points below the limit is absolutely ridiculous when there is zero reason to do so. You can have all the young improving riders, but you build to the points limit. 

 

I have no problem with Rory being in the team, in fact he would have been one of the first names on my team sheet. He is our captain and will leave a massive hole to fill when he's gone. He may have only been with us for 2.5 seasons but really has embraced the club and put everything into it. When we lose it hurts him more than anyone else, that's the kind of spirit you need in a captain.

Who can forget Freddie getting injured at Belle Vue in 2017, it looked as though we were dead and buried but Rory pulled off a win from nowhere in heat 14 against Tungate and Bewley to take us to the final.

As for PK, well he's a Wolves legend, you can't say the same for the likes of Harris, Andersen or whichever other names you want to bring up.

Like it or not, the team will be what it is, so we have no choice but to embrace it for what it is, a team chosen with one eye on the future, and not a bad one at that.

[Daniel Smith]

Maybe, just maybe, the reason for being 2 points under is that riders can up their averages significantly. Then come about August, for Play-Off's introduce Woffinden, Lindgren, Hancock etc for a final Play-Off push. 

It could be a bit of clever manipulation from the management knowing, when you look at Swindon for example, there's no significant improvement available in Doyle, Batchelor and Jensen. 

There's risks to the logic but the fact that Peterborough, King's Lynn and Ipswich are unlikely to trouble a top 2 of Swindon & Sheffield. It's about staying in touching distance of the top 4, then bang in some killer changes just as the European season starts to wind down. 

Quite possibly, an awesome plan is in the making from CVS and Adams. 

[gazzac]

2 hours ago, Wolfsbane said:

Mikael

Your picture is apt 

[DC2]

1 hour ago, Daniel Smith said:

Maybe, just maybe, the reason for being 2 points under is that riders can up their averages significantly.

Then come about August, for Play-Off's introduce Woffinden, Lindgren, Hancock etc for a final Play-Off push. 

 

 

Not quite getting this.

How does being two points under the limit help individual riders to increase their averages?

And if they collectively put on two points and increase to 42.5 Woffinden and Lindgren could only come in on a like for like basis to replace the top two riders (Masters or Thorssell) if they had increased their averages to 9.5.

Are you really suggesting that Wolves would sack Masters or Thorssell if they put 2 points each on their averages?

 

 

[BWitcher]

1 hour ago, Daniel Smith said:

Maybe, just maybe, the reason for being 2 points under is that riders can up their averages significantly. Then come about August, for Play-Off's introduce Woffinden, Lindgren, Hancock etc for a final Play-Off push. 

It could be a bit of clever manipulation from the management knowing, when you look at Swindon for example, there's no significant improvement available in Doyle, Batchelor and Jensen. 

There's risks to the logic but the fact that Peterborough, King's Lynn and Ipswich are unlikely to trouble a top 2 of Swindon & Sheffield. It's about staying in touching distance of the top 4, then bang in some killer changes just as the European season starts to wind down. 

Quite possibly, an awesome plan is in the making from CVS and Adams. 

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever!

If you were going to do that, starting 2pts under the limit doesn't help you in the slightest, it actually hinders it. As '2pts' of your 'improvement' are wasted just reaching parity.

There isn't a single argument that can make starting 2pts under the limit a good option.

[BWitcher]

37 minutes ago, DC2 said:

 

Not quite getting this.

How does being two points under the limit help individual riders to increase their averages?

And if they collectively put on two points and increase to 42.5 Woffinden and Lindgren could only come in on a like for like basis to replace the top two riders (Masters or Thorssell) if they had increased their averages to 9.5.

Are you really suggesting that Wolves would sack Masters or Thorssell if they put 2 points each on their averages?

 

 

Not to mention that just reaching 42.5 may not even get you in the playoffs anyway.

[Col]

Total farce. 2 points under the limit. Cheap.

[DC2]

Pete Adams sees Nicholls as on his way down and Nicol as on his way up.

None of us disagrees.

But with Nicholls on 8.35 CL and Nicol on 5.16, it doesn’t suggest that Broc will overtake Scott next year.

 

[BWitcher]

13 minutes ago, DC2 said:

Pete Adams sees Nicholls as on his way down and Nicol as on his way up.

None of us disagrees.

But with Nicholls on 8.35 CL and Nicol on 5.16, it doesn’t suggest that Broc will overtake Scott next year.

 

Nail on the head.

His argument only holds water when looking at two riders of a similar starting average.

The other factor is that Nicholls riding as a second string, with Monmore as a home track, would also significantly increase his average.

[Sidney the robin]

19 hours ago, Call me wolfie said:

I don't think it's anything to do with cost at all, had Freddy or Greg made themselves available they would be in.

Personally I would rather watch 3 young riders in Douglas, Becker and Nicol develop than a has been who's career is on a downward spiral

Those three could be the future of Wolves i like all of them more improvement to come. Like ourselves  at Swindon Rowe/ Stewart could be part of a longterm strategy and we might have a bit of short term pain with them but longterm we could reap the benefits.

[Daniel Smith]

Is one bad year to get Douglas, Becker, Nicol, Morris to further adapt their skills home and away. 

It could be that the management are looking short term pain, long term gain.

Trying to build a spin in the team for the next 5 years or so is no bad tactic. 

If the Americans live up to their obvious potential they could (and I think will) be the next Hamill & Hancock. 

I believe the management won't give up on 2020 but I'd certainly allow to give them a bit of a break and look to 2021 and beyond.

One thing the Wolverhampton management are good at and that's longevity of rider's and seeing beyond the current season with building teams.

Poole were a force with their future relient on Ward & Holder. 

Swindon are a force when they have Doyle & Batchelor in the same team generally regardless of who else is in the team. 

I think Wolves are pinning their hopes on very similar coming to fruition, there's no shame in that. 

Enjoy watching "The American Assassin's" at work. 

[DC2]

1 hour ago, Daniel Smith said:

Is one bad year to get Douglas, Becker, Nicol, Morris to further adapt their skills home and away. 

It could be that the management are looking short term pain, long term gain.

Trying to build a spin in the team for the next 5 years or so is no bad tactic. 

If the Americans live up to their obvious potential they could (and I think will) be the next Hamill & Hancock. 

I believe the management won't give up on 2020 but I'd certainly allow to give them a bit of a break and look to 2021 and beyond.

One thing the Wolverhampton management are good at and that's longevity of rider's and seeing beyond the current season with building teams.

Poole were a force with their future relient on Ward & Holder. 

Swindon are a force when they have Doyle & Batchelor in the same team generally regardless of who else is in the team. 

I think Wolves are pinning their hopes on very similar coming to fruition, there's no shame in that. 

Enjoy watching "The American Assassin's" at work. 

 

In what year will Becker and Nicol be at the level of Holder & Ward or Doyle & Batchelor?

2024?

Poole struggled to keep Holder & Ward together, or even one of them, and Batchelor, a non-asset, has been in the Swindon team more often than Doyle, who has had only two seasons at the top of his game for Swindon.

Morris was the big asset that Swindon invested in and showed loyalty to and look where he is now.

”Investing” in Nicol now means nothing for the future.

And indeed have Wolves actually invested in him and bought him from Sheffield or are they just bringing him on for Sheffield to benefit in 2021?