Grand Prix changes

[RPNY]

3 hours ago, falcace said:

I a

I am a fan of the SGP and the job that IMG/BSI have done. But the area of real stagnation is in venues. On the face of it, Togliatti is progress. But in recent years, we have lost Stockholm, Copenhagen, Australia and New Zealand. The trend is regression rather than progression on that front. A new scoring format can't smokescreen the SGP retreating to traditional audiences rather than expanding to new audiences. That's the major failure of the SGP organisers and one in which IMG's global reach really should have been able to unlock by now.

Could not agree more. Most the glamour GP's have gone. Togliatti and Vojens are understandable as even tho they are remote places they are good stadiums that will be packed out. But some of the other smaller venues tho lead a lot to be desired and are not good for the series.

I'm not completely sure of exactly how the costs of staging a GP are spread out, but from a few people I've spoken to tell me its lumped pretty entirely on the local promoter. Seems very odd to me. How BSI didn't embrace Having an american World Champion to get a GP in the states or an Aussie world champion to stage another GP down under is very confusing to me.

[iris123]

5 minutes ago, RPNY said:

Could not agree more. Most the glamour GP's have gone. Togliatti and Vojens are understandable as even tho they are remote places they are good stadiums that will be packed out. But some of the other smaller venues tho lead a lot to be desired and are not good for the series.

I'm not completely sure of exactly how the costs of staging a GP are spread out, but from a few people I've spoken to tell me its lumped pretty entirely on the local promoter. Seems very odd to me. How BSI didn't embrace Having an american World Champion to get a GP in the states or an Aussie world champion to stage another GP down under is very confusing to me.

Means very little. Hancock is pretty much an unknown in the States. And nowadays being a world champion in a fairly small sport means little to the outside world. Even a popular champion like Nicki certainly is in Denmark done little for the sport. There was an article the year after his last win where the DMU or the Danish League stayed there wasn’t a boost in attendances due to his title win

[RPNY]

Doesn't mean little if you have a good marketing and promotional strategy. 

[iris123]

Does mean little, because that is fantasy land. If speedway had a good marketing and promotional strategy in the US or Australia or basically anywhere apart from Poland it wouldn’t be in the actual position it finds itself in

Edited November 4, 2019 by iris123

[RPNY]

There are plenty of sports (or businesses in general) that were stagnating but success of certain athletes plus good promotion gave them a massive boost. 

I'm not saying it would be easy, but to say its fantasy land is way off in my opinion. The use of a American world champion with the backing of Monster Energy and other media outlets, they could of easily got a crowd of over 25k and a deal to screen it on one of the sports networks over here. 

[iris123]

Could have, would have

Basically all the wonderful ideas and enterprise BSI/IMG were supposed to have have ended up being unsustainable. They now seem to be on the backfoot and not too keen on expanding out of the comfort zone. Now ask why. Have they lost money or are promoters not willing to lose money for the sake of BSI ?

It was for years said from sources in Russia that BSI were asking too much for a GP in Togliatti. Phil said this wasn’t the case it was other matters. But ice speedway and the Euro series could hold meetings there. Now all of a sudden the GP is there. Is it because they are running out of options ?

We also has the FIM announce a new deal for a world team series or whatever it was called. The first date in Germany was called off at short notice. Then it was announced a great promotion company was taking over and going to host the meeting in Dubai or near. That was a few years ago and we haven’t heard anything since.....

Edited November 4, 2019 by iris123

[RPNY]

I cant help but feel on some levels we are arguing the same point here!

[iris123]

In certain aspects speedway is on the backfoot anyway. The climate for Motorsport in a lot of countries is somewhat negative now, more than ever. In the traditional countries you tend to be fighting against other sports that have far better support nowadays anyway. Football is king. Even here in Germany there has been growing interest for other sports, quite strangely really as I am not sure there is a great marketing strategy. But darts and rugby seem to be growing 

You could say new countries should be open to the sport. Spain for instance. And the Middle East and Asia for sure. But nothing much has come out of any venture

[fatface]

13 minutes ago, iris123 said:

You could say new countries should be open to the sport. Spain for instance. And the Middle East and Asia for sure. But nothing much has come out of any venture

I'd love to know what work has been done in these areas.

Of course, it's very easy for me and others to say "they should be doing this and that" and there may well be perfectly good reasons why the SGP hasn't broken new markets. I don't doubt some efforts have been made. But on the face of it, I would think a place like Qatar where they don't mind losing money on sports events and have a herd of white elephant stadiums-to-be hosting the 2022 World Cup would be an obvious port of call.

Ditto, somewhere like Majorca or Malaga; very reachable for all budget airlines and in a country where the locals like bike racing, decent football stadiums that might be convertable? Surely worth a go?Or Ireland? There's an established scene of bike racing and an international series like the SGP could be welcomed. Who wouldn't fancy a Dublin GP?

Or can we even piggy back on the Superbike or MotoGP calendar and offer a Saturday night SGP in the same city as the Sunday's road racing? Happy to shot down on all these of course, but it would be good to know that all avenues are being explored.

[iris123]

Yes, I agree. I mean some of the Middle East countries seem very keen on getting a sporting tradition established. Hosting all sorts of sports and even giving foreigners a fast track citizenship in Handball for instance to establish a world class team. The money is there, they are willing to build stadia etc

[fatface]

On 11/3/2019 at 10:31 AM, iainb said:

Castanga says

“The main thinking for us is to harmonise our championship scoring system with other big sports events so that the winner always comes away with the most points, which will help attract and retain a wider audience for our sport.”

This is an absurd line of argument from Castagna too. My simple question is: "If that's the case then what new and wider audiences were attracted by the 25pts for the winner system in the early 2000s?"

Show us the evidence, show us the market research.

[DSC67]

If these changes where done to bring us into line with other forms of motorsports, does that mean we can expect bonus points for the rider with the fastest heat time  or  maybe an extra 5 points if you win all your heats ? 

[iwright71]

On ‎11‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 6:33 PM, PHILIPRISING said:

HOW much

Never been slow before to come forward with your views on the SGP Phil !  The stage is yours !

[PHILIPRISING]

39 minutes ago, iwright71 said:

Never been slow before to come forward with your views on the SGP Phil !  The stage is yours !

 

39 minutes ago, iwright71 said:

Never been slow before to come forward with your views on the SGP Phil !  The stage is yours !

WOULD probably subscribe to the view that if it "ain't broke, then don't fix it" as far as the SGP is concerned. Never had a problem with the winner of a particular round not necessarily being the highest scorer. Each SGP is its own event. The accumulation of points is what determines the World Champion.

As far as the SON is concerned, understand why the FIM wanted to broaden the number of participating countries in the finals stages, an incentive for young riders in the lesser nations to ride on the top stage. My real beef is with the name ... just call it the Speedway World Cup. 

[davidncohen]

I think the only thing I would change in the new proposed system is the points difference between the winner and 2nd place - it should be greater, as it's the same points difference between 2nd and 3rd. The rewards for winning a GP should be greater. MotoGP / F1 have this increased gap 1st to 2nd, and then 2nd to 3rd etc.

Having said that, in the end, this is really all just "tinkering" - The priority areas are really track prep, the right tracks / stadia that will attract bigger crowds, and expanding speedway's reach. There's a whole generation of people in the UK that don't even know what speedway is, but BSI have hardly put anything back in order to alleviate this. BSI's own original remit was taking it to new places, but they haven't really done this, and where they have tried, it's not worked very well.

'Tinkering' is a favourite pastime of many in this forum, and we need to leave this behind. However, this is probably about the level that BSI operate at, so to them it's probably a big deal.

[racers and royals]

Lets not forget that BSI/IMG are right in the middle of a tender process for a further 10 years from 2022, so maybe the FIM wanted it and they said yes sir, great idea. 

[RPNY]

1 hour ago, PHILIPRISING said:

As far as the SON is concerned, understand why the FIM wanted to broaden the number of participating countries in the finals stages, an incentive for young riders in the lesser nations to ride on the top stage. My real beef is with the name ... just call it the Speedway World Cup. 

Any news on the Venue of said meeting next year Phil?

[PHILIPRISING]

3 hours ago, davidncohen said:

I think the only thing I would change in the new proposed system is the points difference between the winner and 2nd place - it should be greater, as it's the same points difference between 2nd and 3rd. The rewards for winning a GP should be greater. MotoGP / F1 have this increased gap 1st to 2nd, and then 2nd to 3rd etc.

Having said that, in the end, this is really all just "tinkering" - The priority areas are really track prep, the right tracks / stadia that will attract bigger crowds, and expanding speedway's reach. There's a whole generation of people in the UK that don't even know what speedway is, but BSI have hardly put anything back in order to alleviate this. BSI's own original remit was taking it to new places, but they haven't really done this, and where they have tried, it's not worked very well.

'Tinkering' is a favourite pastime of many in this forum, and we need to leave this behind. However, this is probably about the level that BSI operate at, so to them it's probably a big deal.

NO doubt we would all like to see SGPs in Auckland, Copenhagen, Melbourne, Stockholm, etc but the fact is that these venues are simply not viable. Imagine if Tony Rickardsson, Erik Gundersen, Hans Nielsen, Jason Crump, Leigh Adams and their ilk were still riding. Bums on seats would not be an issue. Poland have overcome the loss of Tomasz Gollob not least because speedway in northern Poland at least is so high profile. 

Whether it is BSI/IMG or Discovery/Eurosport who are the custodians of the World Championship going forward run 2022, new venues will remain a problem.

[BWitcher]

On 11/3/2019 at 7:08 PM, Grand Central said:

Dont agree at all.
I think the title matters quite a bit.
Especially for that illusive 'credibility' everyone seems to value so much.

Spot on, the general public get excited by the term 'World Cup'.. we see it across many sports where people start watching who previously have had zero interest whatsoever.. especially if GB have a chance... which when Tai rides we do.

[Humphrey Appleby]

14 hours ago, falcace said:

But on the face of it, I would think a place like Qatar where they don't mind losing money on sports events and have a herd of white elephant stadiums-to-be hosting the 2022 World Cup would be an obvious port of call.

Not really. The Gulf countries are trying to diversify their oil-dependent economies by attracting tourists, wealthy tax exiles, and sponsors who might invest in other sectors, but they're after the high-spending types and/or those with something invest. Speedway's audience sadly doesn't tick any of those boxes, is small and even worse is confined to a handful of countries rather than being global.

I'd be amazed if hosting a speedway GP hasn't been investigated in some of these countries, but the rulers of these places aren't completely stupid.