Grand Prix changes

[Ghostwalker]

On 11/2/2019 at 12:05 PM, DutchGrasstrack said:

Confirmed rule changes:

Points per GP: 20, 18, 16, 14, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0

GP 2021:

- Top 6 GP 2020
- Top 3 GP challenge
- European champion
- 5 wildcards

5  wildcards in theory, 3 in reality since 7th and 8th placed riders will be given ones by default anyway.

[Bavarian]

Castagna is really really bad for the sport. He is misleading it in a totally wrong direction. Speedway is such a special sport - a team Sport first adn foremost - and as such is absolutey different to any other from of motorsport. That's why I am a speedway fan and couldn't care less about road racing or motocross. They ususally only have one long distance race and have to award championship points for that.

Speedway has 20+ heat races, plus semi and final, were the riders EARN their points. Perfectly easy to understand. And the winner of the last race in a Gradn Prix (the final heat 23) is the winner of that particular SGP, regardless of the points total scored in all of his races during this meeting.

By the way, the winner of that final race DOES actually get the most points (in that race, that is) - three points , compared to two points for second and one for the third.

So what, if the rider who wins the final, has not scored the most points on aggregate from all of the races he has ridden that night, nothing wrong with that. It's perfectly fair that he does not automatically get the most points, when he has got beaten more often than another rider/riders.

There is absolutely no need to award artificial points in Speedway. I hate this stupid stupid decision by the FIM.

Castagna has to go. First they abandoned the hugely popular SWC and gave us a "Speedway of Nations" to fall in line with the "Motocross of Nations", "Flat Track of Nations" and "Enduro of Nations", and now they spoil the SGP by changing from a perfectly fair points scoring system to a totally unfair and unwanted artificial one.

I'm fed up. What's Your next idea, Mr Castagna? Do us all a favour and please, please resign from Your position !!!  

[iwright71]

1 hour ago, Bavarian said:

Castagna is really really bad for the sport. He is misleading it in a totally wrong direction. Speedway is such a special sport - a team Sport first adn foremost - and as such is absolutey different to any other from of motorsport. That's why I am a speedway fan and couldn't care less about road racing or motocross. They ususally only have one long distance race and have to award championship points for that.

Speedway has 20+ heat races, plus semi and final, were the riders EARN their points. Perfectly easy to understand. And the winner of the last race in a Gradn Prix (the final heat 23) is the winner of that particular SGP, regardless of the points total scored in all of his races during this meeting.

By the way, the winner of that final race DOES actually get the most points (in that race, that is) - three points , compared to two points for second and one for the third.

So what, if the rider who wins the final, has not scored the most points on aggregate from all of the races he has ridden that night, nothing wrong with that. It's perfectly fair that he does not automatically get the most points, when he has got beaten more often than another rider/riders.

There is absolutely no need to award artificial points in Speedway. I hate this stupid stupid decision by the FIM.

Castagna has to go. First they abandoned the hugely popular SWC and gave us a "Speedway of Nations" to fall in line with the "Motocross of Nations", "Flat Track of Nations" and "Enduro of Nations", and now they spoil the SGP by changing from a perfectly fair points scoring system to a totally unfair and unwanted artificial one.

I'm fed up. What's Your next idea, Mr Castagna? Do us all a favour and please, please resign from Your position !!!  

Bet Phillip  Rising doesn't agree with you ?

[willstaxi]

It used be 16 riders 20 heats top points scorer wins ( with run offs if needed) ,then along comes the GP's with A,B.C & D finals followed by various tweaks including the ill thought out knock out system. After a few years we went back to 16 riders 20 heats this time with semi's and a final , the top scorer over the season is world champion, simples. I can see no reason tor another change, we do not need to come into line with other motor sports because speedway is unlike any other, 4 riders 4 laps 60 seconds and it works

[f-s-p]

3 hours ago, Bavarian said:

Castagna is really really bad for the sport. He is misleading it in a totally wrong direction. Speedway is such a special sport - a team Sport first adn foremost - and as such is absolutey different to any other from of motorsport. That's why I am a speedway fan and couldn't care less about road racing or motocross. They ususally only have one long distance race and have to award championship points for that.

Speedway has 20+ heat races, plus semi and final, were the riders EARN their points. Perfectly easy to understand. And the winner of the last race in a Gradn Prix (the final heat 23) is the winner of that particular SGP, regardless of the points total scored in all of his races during this meeting.

By the way, the winner of that final race DOES actually get the most points (in that race, that is) - three points , compared to two points for second and one for the third.

So what, if the rider who wins the final, has not scored the most points on aggregate from all of the races he has ridden that night, nothing wrong with that. It's perfectly fair that he does not automatically get the most points, when he has got beaten more often than another rider/riders.

There is absolutely no need to award artificial points in Speedway. I hate this stupid stupid decision by the FIM.

Castagna has to go. First they abandoned the hugely popular SWC and gave us a "Speedway of Nations" to fall in line with the "Motocross of Nations", "Flat Track of Nations" and "Enduro of Nations", and now they spoil the SGP by changing from a perfectly fair points scoring system to a totally unfair and unwanted artificial one.

I'm fed up. What's Your next idea, Mr Castagna? Do us all a favour and please, please resign from Your position !!!  

I could have written that! 

Only thing I see different is the scrapping of SWC. It was too expensive and not enough countries could do it anymore. Smaller teams, less expensive was the only way to go...

[Bavarian]

Sure, but they could and should have retained the SWC for the major nations (let's say the top 8 or 9 countries) every other year, alternating with the SoN pairs event, which could have included all of the other minor speedway nations (maybe 15 or even more). This would have addedd much more variety to teh international speedway calendar and would surely have been much more acceptable, compared to replacing the popular SWC with not quite as popular SoN. 

[MattK]

20 minutes ago, f-s-p said:

I could have written that! 

Only thing I see different is the scrapping of SWC. It was too expensive and not enough countries could do it anymore. Smaller teams, less expensive was the only way to go...

Is SWC dead and SoN now the annual event?

[f-s-p]

1 hour ago, MattK said:

Is SWC dead and SoN now the annual event?

I don't know what's written on the fancy paper at FIM headquarters, but if you ask me, I can't see 4-5 rider teams coming back to the World championship team speedway.

[Grand Central]

2 hours ago, f-s-p said:

I could have written that! 

Only thing I see different is the scrapping of SWC. It was too expensive and not enough countries could do it anymore. Smaller teams, less expensive was the only way to go...

No doubt about the problems of the SWC and the need for some changes

But that did not mean that they answer was the ridiculous SON format, rules and even more stupid title they came up with.

Trouble seems to be that Castagna and chums cannot come up with the right response when needed, no matter what situation they are given.

Something NEEDS change because there are real issues needing to be resolved ... Their ham-fisted way gives us a botched product like the SON.

Meanwhile something that works really well like SGP scoring and needs no change and they cannot stop themselves messing around with it to make it worse.

Why is it that in just about EVERY walk of life, every institution, every international sporting body, every bloody government seems to be headed by total f..wits at the moment ?

Edited November 3, 2019 by Grand Central

[PHILIPRISING]

5 hours ago, iwright71 said:

Bet Phillip  Rising doesn't agree with you ?

HOW much

[f-s-p]

32 minutes ago, Grand Central said:

No doubt about the problems of the SWC and the need for some changes

But that did not mean that they answer was the ridiculous SON format, rules and even more stupid title they came up with.

Trouble seems to be that Castagna and chums cannot come up with the right response when needed, no matter what situation they are given.

Something NEEDS change because there are real issues needing to be resolved ... Their ham-fisted way gives us a botched product like the SON.

Meanwhile something that works really well like SGP scoring and needs no change and they cannot stop themselves messing around with it to make it worse.

Why is it that in just about EVERY walk of life, every institution, every international sporting body, every bloody government seems to be headed by total f..wits at the moment ?

Son is just a title of a competition. The name doesnt bother me. Since the swc was a no go, best pairs was the only way to go. SoN is just a name for it.

[Grand Central]

14 minutes ago, f-s-p said:

Son is just a title of a competition. The name doesnt bother me. Since the swc was a no go, best pairs was the only way to go. SoN is just a name for it.

Dont agree at all.
I think the title matters quite a bit.
Especially for that illusive 'credibility' everyone seems to value so much.

[Mark]

Could the new points system lead to cheating ?   If points from heats 1-20 dont count toward the Championship could a rider who is safe for the semi let a team sponsor mate win a race so that he also reaches the semi. It will happen.

[racers and royals]

14 minutes ago, Mark said:

Could the new points system lead to cheating ?   If points from heats 1-20 dont count toward the Championship could a rider who is safe for the semi let a team sponsor mate win a race so that he also reaches the semi. It will happen.

They will still need as many points as possible for the best gate picks in the semi.

Edited November 3, 2019 by racers and royals

[stevehone]

11 hours ago, iainb said:

Castanga says

“The main thinking for us is to harmonise our championship scoring system with other big sports events so that the winner always comes away with the most points

so they have to change the scoring for SoN too then

 

regarding qualifying, i definitely feel for Mikkelsen, with the extra wildcards it just gives more scope for riders in the World Championship to be chosen around a desk, depending on what country they are from.

i love the GPs, but we need unbiased qualifying. After the final GP of the season have the challenge how they started to do it years ago, bottom 8 from GP and 8 qualifiers, top 7 going through

Edited November 3, 2019 by stevehone

[mrlincolncity]

On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 1:33 PM, James Carter said:

Can't say i'm really that ar$ed about changing the scoring system. 

The people in charge need to concentrate on the racing. Far too many tracks provide lousy racing this year. That's the bigger issue that needs to be resolved

Totally correct...….

[Mark]

4 hours ago, racers and royals said:

They will still need as many points as possible for the best gate picks in the semi.

I agree if its tight but if a rider has 11 or 12 after 4 heats a dropped point or two wont matter. He'll still get 1st pick. It will happen or at least a suspicion.   

Particularly if the rider who is helped is gunning for the title.  Only top 6 qualify for 2021 so up to 9 riders may have little to race for.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Mark

[Grand Central]

Of course it may end up that the 7th and 8th in SGP2020 get 2 of the extra wildcards.
So ultimately the switch to only the top six qualifying by right may make little difference to the personell in SGP2021.

But ... during the SGP year it has always been the top 8 placing that has seems to drive competition in the lower reaches of the points table and maintain interest in their scoring.
At least for the commentators who make great play of this.

Raising the bar to the top six will just make it look as if there are just more riders 'out of contention' and from even earlier in the SGP year. Have less to race for themselves.
And have less for us (and for NP/KT) to care about too.

Just not really sensible ?

Edited November 4, 2019 by Grand Central

[fatface]

On 11/2/2019 at 1:43 PM, steve69 said:

What a joke!!!

In 2019 you could qualify for the Final with 18pts plus 3 pts for the win (ie Madsen in Torun) & someone could finish 2nd in the final having scrapped into the S/f with 7 pts then a 2nd in s/f & 2nd in the final giving them 11 pts. Yet in 2020 first gets 20 pts 2nd gets 18 pts. What a joke!!!

They should be concentrating on getting the SGP venues sorted rather than wasting time messing about with the pts!!! Still only 6 venues announced. What a bunch of ....... we have at the head of this sport I love!!!!

 

I agree. This is change for change sake.

I can't help but think that this is just the result of fresh blood within the SGP organisers who - like a lot in elite sport - want to be seen to be making their contribution. This is the result of that, not the greater good of the series. 

I am a fan of the SGP and the job that IMG/BSI have done. But the area of real stagnation is in venues. On the face of it, Togliatti is progress. But in recent years, we have lost Stockholm, Copenhagen, Australia and New Zealand. The trend is regression rather than progression on that front. A new scoring format can't smokescreen the SGP retreating to traditional audiences rather than expanding to new audiences. That's the major failure of the SGP organisers and one in which IMG's global reach really should have been able to unlock by now.

[The Cheese]

Don't see the point in making these changes at all, there was nothing wrong as it was.

I assume if the European champion already qualifies through finishing in the top 6 of the GPs or via the challenge that 2nd in the Euros will get that place?